The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?  (Read 21895 times)

Offline JP

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3366
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #50 on: 19/05/2010 15:41:54 »
I think this states the question better....
Indeed it does.  Thank you for clarifying.

Quote
Dark matter accounts for the universal weakness of gravity, because gravity alone is not strong enough to hold everything together, we use the variable of extra gravity from dark matter to make standard physics work.  I wonder, if the vibration of the atoms can account for gravities weakness and help explain why matter coalesces.

Is what makes this awesome gravity called a black hole a form of mass with particles so tightly condensed they almost stop vibrating from super gravity it forms super gravity?
Super dense matter with minimal kinetic energy, formed when gravity overcomes high temp. fusion and begins low temp. fusion with shear mass compression as the engine?

I'm not sure I follow this.  Are you proposing that the usual theory of gravity needs to be modified so that gravity not only depends on the mass of an object, but also on how much it's vibrating?  In other words, if I had something the mass of the sun that was hot, and something the mass of the sun that was cold, the cold sun would have more gravity than the hot sun due to the gravitational force depending on the vibration (heat) of the matter?
 

Offline UndergroundRisingUnited

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #51 on: 19/05/2010 19:08:08 »
Boolean Algebra 1+1=1 equivalant to 1 or 1 results 1
Gate to Electronics.


atoms are energy


How true. As Woody Allen put it, "It's like anything else."
play with this one in your mind;
1+1=1
the gate to the universe!
 

Offline UndergroundRisingUnited

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #52 on: 19/05/2010 19:16:18 »
I think this states the question better....
Indeed it does.  Thank you for clarifying.

Quote
Dark matter accounts for the universal weakness of gravity, because gravity alone is not strong enough to hold everything together, we use the variable of extra gravity from dark matter to make standard physics work.  I wonder, if the vibration of the atoms can account for gravities weakness and help explain why matter coalesces.

Is what makes this awesome gravity called a black hole a form of mass with particles so tightly condensed they almost stop vibrating from super gravity it forms super gravity?
Super dense matter with minimal kinetic energy, formed when gravity overcomes high temp. fusion and begins low temp. fusion with shear mass compression as the engine?

I'm not sure I follow this.  Are you proposing that the usual theory of gravity needs to be modified so that gravity not only depends on the mass of an object, but also on how much it's vibrating?  In other words, if I had something the mass of the sun that was hot, and something the mass of the sun that was cold, the cold sun would have more gravity than the hot sun due to the gravitational force depending on the vibration (heat) of the matter?
Almost, more the formation of the sun is not only due to gravity condensing matter.  Rather similar matter with similar vibration coalesces, then is compacted by gravity.  Then the vibration of the element is what, instead of made up gravity ( from dark matter ) repels and attracts at an atomic level.
Maybe Tommy A 300 can say it better!
Thanks
 

Offline UndergroundRisingUnited

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #53 on: 20/05/2010 19:37:09 »
Taking a guess at a formula to describe this theory...probably need help to refine it....

energy = matter, condensed squared right?
e=mc2

so

e=mc2=DxV

where D is atomic density and V is Vibration, and mc2 describes the atomic level; while DxV describes particles at the sub atomic level.
 

Offline UndergroundRisingUnited

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #54 on: 21/05/2010 02:51:21 »
relatively speaking, the faster an object moves is used to describe the relative kinetic energy increase proportional to speed.
Can not the relative atomic density times the speed of the vibration of particles also determine potential kinetic energy?
 

Offline JP

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3366
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #55 on: 21/05/2010 08:10:48 »
Taking a guess at a formula to describe this theory...probably need help to refine it....

energy = matter, condensed squared right?
e=mc2

The c in that equation is the speed of light.  The proper form of that equation is
E2=mc2-p2c2,
where p is the momentum of the matter.

Quote
e=mc2=DxV

where D is atomic density and V is Vibration, and mc2 describes the atomic level; while DxV describes particles at the sub atomic level.

You're welcome to propose a new theory like this, but if you want anyone in the scientific community to accept it, you'll need to show how it agrees with existing theory and extends it to describe new phenomena.  I'm not sure these equations do either, since there isn't a scientifically demonstrated relationship between this density you're talking about and energy.
« Last Edit: 21/05/2010 08:15:12 by JP »
 

Offline UndergroundRisingUnited

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #56 on: 22/05/2010 02:30:30 »
yes, but there is also the factor of the big bangs residual effects which accounts for matter dispersal.
(1/0)?
where was the big bang?
 

Offline UndergroundRisingUnited

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #57 on: 22/05/2010 03:33:54 »
Instead of gravity made from dark matter, the vibration of the element is what repels and attracts at a subatomic level.

gravity is there, but weaker than vibration!
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8655
  • Thanked: 42 times
    • View Profile
What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #58 on: 22/05/2010 16:52:57 »
I understand the problems in defining the density of an atom, yet hypothetically the density should be able to determined by the quantity of particles in a given space.
I imagine such an experiment would have to be on paper, or maybe a computer model, but it would have to determine if fusion can take place at low temperature at high pressure.
If I knew the formulas, I would do the math my self.

BC might contradict me on what I posted above about determining density of a single atom, since he knows his chemistry a lot better than I do.  Let's say you could determine the density of a single atom.  What would you use that number for?  How does fusion come into it?  And black holes?  And what does this have to do with dark matter?  I'm not trying to pick on you here, but I'm confused about how to answer your question and what you're asking about.
Actually, I'm going to make a different point.
Fusion occurs in the sun where the temperature is very high indeed. Under those conditions the hydrogen is practically fully ionised. There are very few atoms and most of those are in very highly excited states so their radii (however you might want to define it) are much bigger than normal.

Yet the fusion goes on.

In general, it's not atoms that fuse; it's their nuclei.
 

Offline UndergroundRisingUnited

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #59 on: 23/05/2010 00:06:03 »
Instead of gravity made from dark matter, the vibration of the element is what repels and attracts at a subatomic level.

gravity is there, but weaker than vibration!

Yep by the theory says, dark matter has mass therefore it has gravity

Are you quoting your statement?
Or
Are you agreeing with my intended change within my interpretation?
 
yes, but there is also the factor of the big bangs residual effects which accounts for matter dispersal.
(1/0)?
where was the big bang?
if 1/infinity is zero would it be safe to say 1/0 = infinity
 Where was the big bang you say?
 We all know thata definite answer to this question is not a requirement to be made a fool of.
I always was, I always be!
 Na-Mr. Sodium! I will ammuse the rest of the populated real estate, only because this existing Form is the best yet forum I have seen since the Last Millenium!

 
   Maybe the Big Bang was within Tachyon Belt just behind the transparent viscous of the Cloud NebulaII's membrain of the Dark Matter, estimating of a coarse path, in a close proximity of the biforkated Parallel Multiverse.  [8] ;D
Maybe someday the properties of dark matter will be called the probability of Dr. Seuss's "Whose Properties"
 ;D
i agree, just making sure to cover all variables.
With the question of infinity = to zero......
Energy cant be destroyed or created, so from nothing comes nothing. 0+0=0
So zero i imagine is just for theory, because also when you add or multiply zero you get nothing.
So it seems more like 1+1=1 after all. From one state of energy comes all of everything, when you think in terms of 2,3,4.....you try to isolate what is connected.
As far as charges to repel and attract, energy/vibration creates magnetism too!
in a rush for time...

nuclei = particles
as they fuse they make heavier atoms

Use that knowledge, then crush the sun past the point it can heat it self from KE, and crush it more, still fusing or all fused?
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8655
  • Thanked: 42 times
    • View Profile
What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #60 on: 23/05/2010 09:28:53 »
The big problem with cold fusion as a solution to the energy crisis is that it simply doesn't work.
 

Offline UndergroundRisingUnited

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #61 on: 23/05/2010 21:26:06 »
The point you speak of is Critical Mass of the sun? It already has passed, ignition has been completed, the chain of events will continue until the fuel is gone. Fuel is its mass, what happens to the gravitational magnitude during the event of losing mass? What other events occur, simultaneously resulting in, other, several other events.

The sun has been used as an example, you are right. However imagine if the sun had more mass, the engine that drives the sun is the force of gravity compressing the lighter elements into fusing into heavier elements.  During this process a great deal of energy is released and the immense gravity is all that keeps the star from blowing itself apart.
So hypothetically if there was more mass there would be more gravity, could there be such a large mass that its own gravity compresses everything past the states of matter we know into super dense matter with incredibly low KE, yet incredibly high density.
Could this super dense state of matter be what the singularity is?

 “infinity = zero”....the 1+1=1 equation leaves infinity =  to one.

For example, from hydrogen comes every other element.
 

Offline UndergroundRisingUnited

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #62 on: 24/05/2010 19:49:27 »
yup infinity will never = 0
"I'm not sure these equations do either, since there isn't a scientifically demonstrated relationship between this density you're talking about and energy."
?
The c in that equation is the speed of light.  The proper form of that equation is
E2=mc2-p2c2,
where p is the momentum of the matter.

the equations been modified alot. the relation to energy and density is easy to see.
how hard you throw vs. what you throw.
c= the constant speed of light, the faster you throw something the more energy it has.
c= matter condensed, the mass of what you throw determines its energy.

what has more energy moving at light speed a diamond or a cotton ball.(why?)



 

The Naked Scientists Forum

What happens to matter that isn't vibrating?
« Reply #62 on: 24/05/2010 19:49:27 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums