# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: What is the 5th dimension?  (Read 3634 times)

#### tommya300

• Hero Member
• Posts: 655
##### What is the 5th dimension?
« on: 27/05/2010 06:26:36 »
5th dimensional science question, (Ha) not the entertaining musical group, either [:o)] ...
I read conflicting info and can't even establish a most foolish of discussions.

Ideas are welcome, scientific analysis, or deductable reasoning, or partial fact/fictional idea and some guess work, which is most likely to be.

Some articles mess with the idea, that it is information and where it can be stored, using the light spectrum relative to an some unknown variable.
Could of, would of, should of, maybe a base start. I do not know, as if you need more food for thought.

#### JP

• Neilep Level Member
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##### What is the 5th dimension?
« Reply #1 on: 27/05/2010 06:36:51 »
There is no "the" fifth dimension.

"Dimension" is used to mean several things in physics.  In data storage situations that you're talking about, it often means an additional physical variable that you can use to store data.  In addition to storing data using light, you could store different data in different wavelengths and call this an extra "dimension" to store data.

Generally when most people talk about dimensions, they're talking about the geometry of the universe.  In that case, a dimension is an independent axis through which you can move.  As far as we know, there are four dimensions to the universe (3 space dimensions + time), but some theories propose there are others that only tiny particles can see.

#### Soul Surfer

• Neilep Level Member
• Posts: 3345
• keep banging the rocks together
##### What is the 5th dimension?
« Reply #2 on: 27/05/2010 21:23:36 »
we have our familiar three dimensions of space.  Time can be considered as being similar and is linked to space via special relativity this offers the concept of a fourth dimension of time.  Gravitation is also seen as a distortion of space in general relativity and in order to distort three dimensional space we need at least one more dimension but we have already used up the fourth dimension for time and although gravity does distort time it distorts space as well so we could need a fifth dimension to complete the set.   String theory has played with many dimensions but the preferred range is around ten.  My personal current feelings that our five dimensional space time is best considered as being complex which adds at least one more dimension to each of the real dimensions that we are discussing so that gives us ten dimensions to play with five of which are curled up and tiny.

Thinking about this can offer a  potential new route to a theory of everything. (although this may be thought of as a new theory item)

Now string theory and information theory (time-bandwidth product) both have reciprocal symmetry that is as some things get bigger others are forced to get smaller  so our ten dimensional structure has reciprocal symmetry.  Now as space-time inside  black hole collapses towards as "singularity" the tiny imaginary dimensions (expressed in the uncertainty theorem ) are forced to expand and eventually take over the real dimensions while the real dimensions contract.  there may even be a switch between the dimensions that express space and time but the end result is that a collapsing universe turns into an expanding one.

#### tommya300

• Hero Member
• Posts: 655
##### What is the 5th dimension?
« Reply #3 on: 27/05/2010 22:49:16 »
There is no "the" fifth dimension.

"Dimension" is used to mean several things in physics.  In data storage situations that you're talking about, it often means an additional physical variable that you can use to store data.  In addition to storing data using light, you could store different data in different wavelengths and call this an extra "dimension" to store data.

Generally when most people talk about dimensions, they're talking about the geometry of the universe.  In that case, a dimension is an independent axis through which you can move.  As far as we know, there are four dimensions to the universe (3 space dimensions + time), but some theories propose there are others that only tiny particles can see.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaluza%E2%80%93Klein_theory

Then who is this guy and what is the controversy here?

Hi JP! Thank you for your response, your point has been well made which can not be dismissed, just messaged! Yep I agree that “Dimension” is a word widely used, with respect to the realm in which it is to imply, so is the word “State.”
I had to ask this question, and do not want to ruin my, (cough, cough), immaculate, credibility, (snicker, snicker at me)!
Is the key to our discussion, diversion?
Reiterating my original question, categorically speaking, “what is the 5th dimension?”
Was my question interpreted as, “Is there a proven physical 5th dimension?” I ask, since my interpretation of your response, tends to sway me in that direction.
I am trying to think out outside the box, coining the phrase “4th Dimension.”

I suggest JP that your description is in the realm of semantics. You know, by doing that, you just made me think, occasionally this happens, that, within our 4th dimension, lay 3 more plains, making me believe, an updated view, that there are 7 dimensions and they are there occupying our physical space-time. We speak generally of the related view point, the vantage view, which locks us here to riddle waddle. e.g.…Pandora’s side kick and it was to be assumed to be cubical in shape. More to come, first I need to digest this and see!

Soul surfer has a good point there too! Gravity occupies the all 4 dimensions.
Bear with me; light may play a key factor here too gravity having an affect on it, and since Klein has some unique ideas!
.
« Last Edit: 28/05/2010 04:17:40 by tommya300 »

#### Murchie85

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 124
##### What is the 5th dimension?
« Reply #4 on: 07/06/2010 15:46:34 »
Anything higher than the 4th dimension has only theories to describe it, and has no physical substance other than that they are required to explain certain phenomena in our 4 dimensional space.

As soul surfer mention the most common of the theories is string theory which has the 5th,6th .... 11th dimension curled up in a ball to compensate for our so called large 3/4 dimensional space. One of the main reason for these higher dimesions is to explain why gravity is so weak compared to the other 3 forces (EM, STRONG AND WEAK), in that gravity is shared up through the other dimensions. The best way to think about the 5th dimension at the moment is not to consider it as a physical entity or a place where we can exist, but a mathematical tool to help us describe better unexplained phenomena that occurs in our universe, some might say the use of higher dimensions in physics is a way of sweeping the mess under the carpet.

#### LeeE

• Neilep Level Member
• Posts: 3382
##### What is the 5th dimension?
« Reply #5 on: 07/06/2010 19:12:48 »
The only argument for saying that there are only four dimensions is the Anthropic Principle, which doesn't actually provide reasons for anything.

A restriction to just four dimensions is also arbitrary; why should it not be more or less than four, without reverting back to the Anthropic Principle, which just says that it is that way because that's the way it is?

#### The Naked Scientists Forum

##### What is the 5th dimension?
« Reply #5 on: 07/06/2010 19:12:48 »