The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad  (Read 10450 times)

Offline mini_coops

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« on: 05/01/2006 22:40:30 »
Political Correctness: a nation gone mad

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the UK, we are no longer able to say "Bah Bah Black sheep" - a rhyme that has been going round for hundreds of years. Bah Bah White sheep does not quite have the same ring as Bah Bah Black Sheep. How can a black person be offended by the colour of a sheep in a petty nursery rhyme? Surely calling it a White sheep is the same as it being called a Black sheep. However, many people don't understand that racism works in more than one way - it is not purely whites being derogatory to blacks, but it is also blacks being derogatory to whites. If a black person can have this rhyme changed, then can a white person have it changed? This I very much doubt. But why is this? Do black people have a chip on their shoulder that whites don't? Please, don't think I am a racist - I have many friends who are not of white persuasion, but the fact that some black people believe that they are perminately being 'got at' really gets up my nose.

Another example of this going mad is how long has Black Magic been around for? It's not called black magic as a derogatory term towards black people - it is called black magic because of the fact that it was used for 'dark' reasons. Yet, we have black people saying that this is also a racist comment.

How?

How is it now that these sayings that have been around for centuries are now coming under scrutiny - and for what? What are these people achieving?


Political correctness has become a joke - books are being written about the state it has got into. The government doesn't help - they, of course, want to be seen to be listening to the minority - even if the blacks do have a large percentage in our modern day community - and so they buckle under the slightest pressure from these people.

I pose to you - How long before other terms of our great language are rephrased because someone has a chip on their shoulder?


 

another_someone

  • Guest
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #1 on: 06/01/2006 01:37:32 »
quote:
Originally posted by mini_coops

Political Correctness: a nation gone mad

The government doesn't help - they, of course, want to be seen to be listening to the minority - even if the blacks do have a large percentage in our modern day community - and so they buckle under the slightest pressure from these people.




I think it is like so much else, the fear is greater than the reality.  Political correctness is very rarely because someone took offence (although clearly there are always people who will take offence at anything), but it is more commonly the fear people have of causing offence even when no offence has been caused.  Most of it is created not by political institutions reacting to pressure, but by political institutions anticipating pressure that may never actually arise.


That having been said, it is also the case that often isolated cases are blown out of all proportion.  Often a single authority makes an isolated decree in a particular instance, but the publicly reported story is that a blanket ban has occurred, when no such generalisation of the particular instance has been decreed.  It can cause some isolated cases of total nonsense, but that doesn't make it as broad a problem as it is often reported.
« Last Edit: 06/01/2006 01:41:21 by another_someone »
 

Offline chris

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5339
  • Thanked: 65 times
  • The Naked Scientist
    • View Profile
    • The Naked Scientists
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #2 on: 06/01/2006 10:26:42 »
This is true. I have asked several muslim friends if they are offended by the concept of a piggy bank - at which they laughed.

Similarly, I have been wished Happy Christmas by many non-christians this year.

I don't believe that anyone has actually complained about these things. In the majority of cases it's stupid lefties with nothing better to do than worry about what someone "might" object to.

That said, I thought the muslim who tried to sue his employer for offering the performance incentive of a case of wine deserved all he got when he lost his case. The company had offered an alternative incentive to non-drinkers so it would appear he was just trying to play the race card and get lucky. Hopefully he got a big bill because this kind of behaviour does no one any favours.

I personally abhor all this careful selection of language to avoid causing offence to anyone - it's crap. There will always be differences of opinion, unless the idiots who contrive all this pc rubbish think they can brainwash the world into agreeing with each other all of the time - so people shoulf just grow up and worry about something important for a change.

Chris

"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
 - Groucho Marx
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 12656
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • A stitch in time would have confused Einstein.
    • View Profile
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #3 on: 06/01/2006 13:10:51 »
quote:
I personally abhor all this careful selection of language to avoid causing offence to anyone - it's crap. There will always be differences of opinion, unless the idiots who contrive all this pc rubbish think they can brainwash the world into agreeing with each other all of the time - so people shoulf just grow up and worry about something important for a change.


I couldn't have put it better.
 

Offline mini_coops

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #4 on: 06/01/2006 21:54:44 »
Thanks for your responses guys.

In response to "I don't believe that anyone has actually complained about these things.", I'm from the midlands, where we have a very large ethnic population and the Bah Bah Black Sheep incident was on the news - I understand that not all these things are raised on the news, but this was one that was brought to my attention.

I personally don't agree with PC - hence writing this. I don't call a woman incharge the Chairwoman - why should I? The term has been Chairman for years, so why change it now?

In response to the comment about "the fear is greater than the reality" - you're right. But sureley the government has more things to worry about though than someone saying they think Chairman is sexist if a woman is in control.

I'm probably just an old fashioned 16 year old who has been put into these ways by his older-than-average-aged parents. But I do feel strongly about this subject. Surely if the government is worried about someone being offended, me writing a letter to them about Bah Bah white sheep may get it changed to Bah Bah orange sheep - I'm not aware of anyone with orange skin, so I think this may be a safe bet. This is trivial - but isn't the whole subject?
 

Offline chris

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5339
  • Thanked: 65 times
  • The Naked Scientist
    • View Profile
    • The Naked Scientists
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #5 on: 06/01/2006 21:59:30 »
I think we should start a personal crusade to crush this PC nonsense - by being as un-PC as possible !

Chris

"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
 - Groucho Marx
 

Offline mini_coops

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #6 on: 06/01/2006 22:19:48 »
haha... I like your style! Anyone else interested in a petition? lol
 

another_someone

  • Guest
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #7 on: 06/01/2006 23:04:28 »
quote:
Originally posted by chris

I think we should start a personal crusade to crush this PC nonsense - by being as un-PC as possible !




I don't know if this was trying to be ironic, unfortunately it does seem remarkably close to what the Conservative party were also saying about a crusade against PC.

The problem is that by being anti-PC, it just becomes another form of PC (a bit like the argument that positive discrimination is still discrimination, even if in the opposite sense from that currently prevalent).

I think banning words like blackboard, chairman, etc. is nonsense; but insisting that people must say blackboard and outlawing chairwoman is no less stupid.  Let people use the words they feel comfortable with, whether it be blackboard, chairman, chairwoman, or whatever makes sense to them as an individual.
 

Offline mini_coops

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #8 on: 07/01/2006 00:32:21 »
Thats exactly my point - I'm not saying we should 'ban' people from saying chairwoman, it's just that to be PC, we have to say it. We should live in a nation in which we are free to say what we want, when we want - rather than being restricted by what the government percieves to be the right phrasology.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 12656
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • A stitch in time would have confused Einstein.
    • View Profile
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #9 on: 07/01/2006 01:42:57 »
quote:
Surely if the government is worried about someone being offended, me writing a letter to them about Bah Bah white sheep may get it changed to Bah Bah orange sheep - I'm not aware of anyone with orange skin, so I think this may be a safe bet


I think Robert Kilroy-Silk, Des O'Connor, David Dickinson and Tango Man may object :D
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 12656
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • A stitch in time would have confused Einstein.
    • View Profile
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #10 on: 07/01/2006 01:44:42 »
P.S. minicoops - if you're into cricket then you're ok by me! :D
Rather than going out partying on new year's eve, I stayed in & watched that program about the ashes series
 

Offline mini_coops

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #11 on: 07/01/2006 01:54:03 »
doctor beaver - how do you know i'm into cricket?

and i love the comment about the orange people - the umpa-lumpa's may object....
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 12656
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • A stitch in time would have confused Einstein.
    • View Profile
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #12 on: 07/01/2006 02:05:26 »
It's in your profile.
I'm also a musician
« Last Edit: 07/01/2006 02:06:42 by DoctorBeaver »
 

Offline mini_coops

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #13 on: 07/01/2006 15:02:30 »
oh my....
 

sharkeyandgeorge

  • Guest
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #14 on: 07/01/2006 16:48:29 »
if any one should be blamed for the onslaught of political correctness its the americans there is a case to be made for legal action to be taken against people who are deliberately using racist sexist or sectarian language but this american culture of sueing everyone for anything which has started to bleed over here means that employers goverment or indeed anyone in a posistion to be held ultimately responsible is now so afraid to be sued that they are trying to cover thier arses from every percived slight as well as real ones can we blame them?

"I realised i was sitting on a thousand tons of fuel in a rocket built by the lowest bidder"  John Glen
 

Offline Corbeille

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #15 on: 07/01/2006 16:53:11 »
The story about "Bah bah black sheep" being banned is a myth. It was invented by journalist of a London "newspaper" over a pub lunch.

Be a good scientist now - question everything and think for yourself!










"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire"
 

Offline mini_coops

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #16 on: 07/01/2006 19:34:59 »
Well, actually, thats not quite true - I saw on Midlands Today (the BBC local news) some woman from B'ham kicking up a fuss about it... make of that what you will.

Sharkey - I think we should blame the USA for most things... :P
 

Offline Corbeille

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #17 on: 07/01/2006 23:42:39 »
So she was kicking up a fuss..

Did some official or government person somewhere tell her off for singing Bah bah black sheep, was she telling somebody off for singing it. More info please and not second hand tittle tattle. The myth was created by Daily mail journalists in the 1980s, as a poke at Lambeth Council. It was conceived over a pub lunch as a bit of a joke. Unfortunaltely it got bigger than a joke and now many people  actually believe it.

Political correctness can be ludicrous but I can remember when  people described the colour of their shoes  as "N1gger Brown" and not intending to be racist but none the less being offensive. Thank god that phrase has gone out of existense.



Think for yourself. Don't just accept what you are told as gospel, If something sounds outrageous to you then it probably is.










"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire"
 

Offline Solvay_1927

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 383
    • View Profile
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #18 on: 09/01/2006 23:17:06 »
"Bah bah black sheep, have you any wool?
Yes sir, yes sir, three bags full.
One for the master and one for the dame
and one for the little boy who lives down the lane."

This rhyme tells us that black sheep (as opposed to white sheep, presumably?) ...
1) ... have the nous to keep in with the rich folk (giving wool to the master and dame)
2) ... look after the little guy (giving wool to the little boy down the lane)
3) ... can speak!

In what way is that an insult to black people?  Surely it should be seen as a compliment!
 

Offline Solvay_1927

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 383
    • View Profile
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #19 on: 09/01/2006 23:19:12 »
And not only can black sheep speak, he can respond in a clever little rhyme!

(Come to think of it, I suppose it's a kind of "rap", isn't it. [:o)])
 

Offline Corbeille

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #20 on: 09/01/2006 23:39:07 »
At Christmas time there were reports in the USA and the UK of Christmas being banned in parts of the country. PC gone mad. The BBC followed up the stories and found no evidence to support them. In fact, in areas supposedly where Christmas deccies were banned, they found the streets festooned with lights. Provided by the local councils. In the USA Bill O'reilly of Fux news tried to spread these types of stories on the David Leterman show. He quoted two schools where christmas activities were verboten. Letterman slapped him down saying that these were maybe two examples in a country of hundreds of thousands of schools.

If somebody is putting out scare stories, ask why are they telling you this? What's in it for them to want you to know this?




"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire"
 

Offline ukmicky

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3011
    • View Profile
    • http://www.space-talk.com/
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #21 on: 09/01/2006 23:50:57 »
quote:
The story about "Bah bah black sheep" being banned is a myth. It was invented by journalist of a London "newspaper" over a pub lunch.

Be a good scientist now - question everything and think for yourself!




Corbeille my wife works in a junior school in lambeth and  bah bah black sheep is banned as is the word christmas and the word black board but not the word whiteboard.

Michael                 HAPPY NEW YEAR                    
 

Offline Corbeille

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #22 on: 10/01/2006 15:56:06 »
Lets see some evidence.



"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire"
 

Offline ukmicky

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3011
    • View Profile
    • http://www.space-talk.com/
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #23 on: 10/01/2006 17:58:48 »
Seriously its true.
The christmas thing isn't set in stone and is down to the discretion of the head of the school. Last year in my wife's school the headmistress used her discretion and banned the word christmas which she replaced  with festive. So last christmas/year the children had a festive party and festive dinner, my wife refused to take part in either as there time had to be given voluntary .  but the black-sheep and blackboard thing is fact and the words can't be used. but most of the school blackboards have now been upgraded and replaced for the new white boards which are officially  called whiteboards.

Michael                 HAPPY NEW YEAR                    
« Last Edit: 10/01/2006 18:00:25 by ukmicky »
 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #24 on: 10/01/2006 18:02:56 »
I tell you something..I'm ****ing offended by all this bull**** political correctness !!..it ****ing pisses me right off !!

Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: Political Correctness: a nation gone mad
« Reply #24 on: 10/01/2006 18:02:56 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums