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Offline ukmicky

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global warming
« on: 11/01/2006 18:39:12 »
I was looking for the new environment forum but strangely its not here, whats going on :)




So trees and plants are not as good for the environment as we first thought. its just been discovered that tree's don't only breath out oxygen but they also emit lots  methane.(how did we not know that before) so they breath in one green house gas but also breath out another.


SOURCE TODAYS BBC NEWS


where does that leave the hug a tree campaign and the environment  :) sorry Andrew

it just goes to show how little we know.

Is it wise to plant lots of new forests that will emit large amounts of methane .


Hey doc maybe you beavers are good for the environment after all:D


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« Last Edit: 29/03/2006 02:03:38 by ukmicky »


 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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Re: global warming
« Reply #1 on: 11/01/2006 19:30:26 »
Of course beavers are good for the environment.
 

Offline neilep

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Re: global warming
« Reply #2 on: 11/01/2006 19:44:39 »
quote:
Originally posted by DoctorBeaver

Of course beavers are good for the environment.




Oh yes..I love Beavers.

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sharkeyandgeorge

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Re: global warming
« Reply #3 on: 11/01/2006 20:16:23 »
trees produce oxegen by converting co2 during the day but reverse it at night. older trees produce more co2 than air

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another_someone

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Re: global warming
« Reply #4 on: 11/01/2006 20:32:40 »
Are we talking about trees here, or forest environments.

Trees will both inhale and exhale CO2, but as their primary source of carbon is usually CO2, thus so long as they are growing they must be absorbing more CO2 than they exhale.  Once they stop growing, then they will no longer be absorbing more carbon, because they are not using that carbon for growth.

Once a tree dies, then the environment around it will decompose the tree, and release carbon back into the environment.  In a stable forest environment, where tree growth will be matched by tree death, there will not be any nett absorption of carbon by that environment.  In that case, the process of decay will certainly produce methane.

I have not heard that a living tree will produce methane, but there are many things I have not heard of; and it does not mean it is not so simply because I have not heard of it.
« Last Edit: 11/01/2006 20:33:28 by another_someone »
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: global warming
« Reply #5 on: 11/01/2006 21:26:03 »
It does go contrary to what we believe but going by the news report the researchers placed various plants including small tree's in separate methane free environments/enclosures removing all possible sources of contamination and allowed then to grow, after a period of time they tested the air inside the enclosure which was methane free and found small amounts of methane. After repeating the experiments and ruling out all other possible routes for the methane to enter the enclosure's they realized the only way the methane could have got into the enclosure was if the plants had naturally release methane along side the oxygen.   The report said more experiment  are to be done using plants growing naturally in the wild in the rain forests but they believe these new experiments will also give the same results.

It was on the bbc 1 news earlier today, i will check the bbc news at ten but they dont always put the same reports on at different times

Michael                 HAPPY NEW YEAR                    
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Re: global warming
« Reply #6 on: 11/01/2006 21:47:11 »
quote:
Originally posted by ukmicky

I was looking for the new environment forum but strangely its not here, whats going on :)




So trees and plants are not as good for the environment as we first thought. its just been discovered that tree's don't only breath out oxygen but they also emit lots  methane.(how did we not know that before) so they breath in one green house gas but also breath out another.


SOURCE TODAYS BBC NEWS


where does that leave the hug a tree campaign and the environment  :) sorry Andrew

it just goes to show how little we know.

Is it wise to plant lots of new forests that will emit large amounts of methane .


Hey doc maybe you beavers are good for the environment after all:D


Michael                 HAPPY NEW YEAR                    



"The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct."
K.I.S. "Keep it simple!"
 

Offline neilep

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Re: global warming
« Reply #7 on: 11/01/2006 22:36:51 »
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-01/m-tfm011006.php

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Offline wim

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Re: global warming
« Reply #8 on: 11/01/2006 23:05:17 »
this is really stunning stuff!
 

another_someone

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Re: global warming
« Reply #9 on: 11/01/2006 23:19:06 »
quote:
Originally posted by neilep

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-01/m-tfm011006.php

Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!



Very interesting (in a mock German accent) :)
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: global warming
« Reply #10 on: 12/01/2006 02:19:59 »
but the thing is what a plant breaths out is something that you would assume would have been checked time after time after time.

Its like a scientist saying, oh do you know that thing called gravity, well we decided to check it out properly this time and it happens to be a part of the electromagnetic spectrum.:)

Or or do you know that man called ukmicky well we checked and he happens to be god so bow down to his greatness and send him lots of money:D
 
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« Last Edit: 12/01/2006 05:10:35 by ukmicky »
 

Offline neilep

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Re: global warming
« Reply #11 on: 12/01/2006 02:46:59 »
quote:
Originally posted by ukmicky


Or or do you know that man called ukmicky well we checked and he happens to be god so bow down to his greatness and send him lots of money:D
 
Michael                 HAPPY NEW YEAR                    



Sir..you are a cad and a scoundrel !!;)..will a cheque do ?..payable to God ?

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Offline neilep

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Re: global warming
« Reply #12 on: 12/01/2006 02:48:42 »
AHA !!...are you the GOD who responded in the phobia thread ?...aha !!


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Offline ukmicky

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Re: global warming
« Reply #13 on: 12/01/2006 03:11:28 »
Thankfully not, his real name's not Michael and so he can't be a god and is definatly not me

Wikipedia

HEBREW The given name Michael or Micha'el ( / "he who is like God" or "likened unto God",

ARABIC Michael in aramaic means: who is like God?, Michael->"Mi[n] Cha el"

ISRAELI MICHAEL is the only angel given the highest rank of archangel; he appears as the guardian angel of Israel

Michael means god in latin.

This is a science forum what more evidence do you require.

Michael                 HAPPY NEW YEAR                    
« Last Edit: 12/01/2006 05:09:07 by ukmicky »
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: global warming
« Reply #14 on: 12/01/2006 03:27:28 »
Just a couple of methane facts from the net

Methane: The level of methane is now 1.7 ppm.

Methane is 20 times more effective as a greenhouse gas than CO2, and it is increasing at the rate of 1% a year, four times faster than CO2.




Michael                 HAPPY NEW YEAR                    
« Last Edit: 12/01/2006 03:29:30 by ukmicky »
 

Offline neilep

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Re: global warming
« Reply #15 on: 12/01/2006 04:14:22 »
Cool Methane facts Michael....well, probably not so cool if you strike a match in a Methane filled greenhouse !!

Hey...we have Solar Panels...lets invent Methane Panels and hang them above the Earths forests and jungles and have small portable ones that attach to Cow bums !!......:D

............and other Methane producing venues.

I've invented the idea....you guys do the rest.

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sharkeyandgeorge

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Re: global warming
« Reply #16 on: 13/01/2006 14:36:10 »
ive often wondered if all these gasses that industrys produced have allways been produced (in much smaller quantities naturally) whats took them out the atmosphere before? fair enough co2 removed by plants but what about the others? and  cant we just cultivate the other scrubbers as a balance?

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another_someone

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Re: global warming
« Reply #17 on: 13/01/2006 22:34:17 »
quote:
Originally posted by sharkeyandgeorge

ive often wondered if all these gasses that industrys produced have allways been produced (in much smaller quantities naturally) whats took them out the atmosphere before? fair enough co2 removed by plants but what about the others? and  cant we just cultivate the other scrubbers as a balance?

"Defender of the Sea"



Methane is easy it burns in air, providing CO2 and water.

It did occur to me that if these trees are all building up methane within the forest, if that does not increase the likelihood of forest fires.  Some forests need regular fires as a natural part of their process (some trees will not even germinate until a fire comes along the fire gets rid of all the competition, giving those seeds that can survive the fire a head start).
 

Offline AlphBravo

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Re: global warming
« Reply #18 on: 13/01/2006 23:13:27 »
"So trees and plants are not as good for the environment as we first thought. its just been discovered that tree's don't only breath out oxygen but they also emit lots methane.(how did we not know that before) so they breath in one green house gas but also breath out another."

Well it is bit like M Twain "Everyone talks about the Weather but no one does anything about" well not much has changed, fact is the population is addicted to the current lifestyle, so any changes are more likely to be verbal changes in terminology.
Seriously though, what can they do about it? it has taken 300 years of planetary abuse, to get this far, and like the Half life principal whereby said problem is compounding, all the time, until it gets to 50% and the next day 100%.
It will have to be a sudden catastrophic event, that will even galvanise, any concerted action, towards climate change, though really the problem is really growing.
Then we have the CO2 I just cannot see inflating the Planet as some kind of neutral answer, but it will grab attention, for a period, though again I think the Problem is far greater than that.
They could capture it, and send it to Mars!
 

another_someone

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Re: global warming
« Reply #19 on: 14/01/2006 00:36:13 »
quote:
Originally posted by AlphBravo

Well it is bit like M Twain "Everyone talks about the Weather but no one does anything about" well not much has changed



So what do you suggest, we stop weather does not sound like either a very practical or desirable thing to do.

quote:

fact is the population is addicted to the current lifestyle



It's rather like saying that the population is addicted to food so we should all stop eating.

quote:

Seriously though, what can they do about it? it has taken 300 years of planetary abuse, to get this far, and like the Half life principal whereby said problem is compounding, all the time, until it gets to 50% and the next day 100%.



What do you define as abuse, and why pick on the last 300 years.

Humans having been influencing the environment for the last 10,000 years (since the advent of agriculture) at the very least.

300 years may have been the period of the industrial revolution, but in Europe massive deforestation has been happening long before that.

None of it has killed us yet.  On the contrary, there are more people alive today than ever before, and the technology of the past would simply not have allowed so many people to be alive at once, or to live so long as they do today.

quote:

It will have to be a sudden catastrophic event, that will even galvanise, any concerted action, towards climate change, though really the problem is really growing.



Climate has always been changing, since long before humans arrived on this planet.  Humans have themselves had to adapt to ice ages, periods that were warmer than the current period, and much else.  Yes, all of this present challenges, but none of it is new, and none of it is insurmountable.

quote:

Then we have the CO2 I just cannot see inflating the Planet as some kind of neutral answer, but it will grab attention, for a period, though again I think the Problem is far greater than that.
They could capture it, and send it to Mars!



CO2 is the most natural gas on this planet.  Volcanoes spew out lots of CO2.  It is oxygen that is the 'unnatural' product.  Before the first blue-green algae started converting CO2 to oxygen, there was no free oxygen on this planet, just lots of CO2.
 

Offline Solvay_1927

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Re: global warming
« Reply #20 on: 14/01/2006 03:04:38 »
quote:
Originally posted by ukmicky
HEBREW The given name Michael or Micha'el ( / "he who is like God" or "likened unto God",

ARABIC Michael in aramaic means: who is like God?, Michael->"Mi[n] Cha el"

ISRAELI MICHAEL is the only angel given the highest rank of archangel; he appears as the guardian angel of Israel

Michael means god in latin.

The story of my life! Other people get a name that means "god-like", but all I get is a name that means "small"! :(
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Re: global warming
« Reply #21 on: 14/01/2006 12:25:06 »
Aside from the millions of people that never bothered to question the data in the science books on the topic of trees and their relation to green house gas.

When is someone going to check out the data on the supposed greenhouse effect causing global warming?

Global warming is caused by exposing naked soils to the energy of the sun, preventing rain from falling by inducing a thermal barrier on the coast lines, which further dries out the forests inland causing huge problems with forest fires, which in turn adds to the global temperatures.

Put the trees back on the land and prevent the sun from drying out the soils and turning them into deserts the size of continents and we may well see a massive reduction in global temperatures. Furthermore, we may also see enough food produced on the reclaimed lands to solve the world food crisis. Furthermore, the deserts can be used to grow oil producing crops to solve the impending fuel crisis.

What does god think about the return of the promised land?

Andrew

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K.I.S. "Keep it simple!"
« Last Edit: 14/01/2006 12:34:23 by Andrew K Fletcher »
 

Offline Bass

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Re: global warming
« Reply #22 on: 14/01/2006 19:00:48 »
Causative factors for global warming may be a bit more complex than just the loss of vegetation along coastlines.  Paleoclimate data from the past several hundred thousand years indicate a dynamic range of temperatures, and continuous swings from ice ages to warm periods.  Dendrology, ice cores, isotopic, benthic paleontology, atmospheric gas concentration and other studies all suggest a complex, dynamic system is responsible for these swings.  Deserts have existed throughout geologic time- even without man stripping coastlines of their vegetation.
No doubt, planting trees along denuded coastlines may prove beneficial (more firewood for local residents)- but probably not the sole solution to global warming.

Subduction causes orogeny.
 

Offline VAlibrarian

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Re: global warming
« Reply #23 on: 22/01/2006 03:28:56 »
"Trees and plants are not as good for the environment as we once thought"- wrong, trees and plants ARE the environment.

Every time some researcher re-measures something and discovers a 1% error it seems to cause an enormous opinion ripple around our planet with millions of people seizing onto the information as a way to believe "things are really okay, there is no danger that natural systems will ever collapse under the pressure of human over-use".
The problem with this is that the cumulative evidence that we are doing real damage is simply too clear at this point. We live on a planet that we still consider large, but in fact every major oceanic fishery is over exploited, and animals living in the Arctic region are endangered by the accumulation of toxic materials in their bodies even if they never in their lives see a human.
I recall a few years back many people refused to believe in global warming because it was well documented that temperatures in certain areas were not going up. Well, researchers recently discovered that there was a mistake in the measurements, and all the temperatures including atmospheric and oceanic were going up. Did you see any news reports? Did you hear any public apologies by those who had been using the incorrect data to deny the existence of global warming? Nope. So do not ask me to get excited by the fact that trace amounts of methane come out of plants. This in no way compares to the massive changes that over 6 billion humans are making in our atmosphere.

chris wiegard
 

Offline VAlibrarian

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Re: global warming
« Reply #24 on: 22/01/2006 03:35:12 »
It is also pretty clearly understood by 99% of atmospheric scientists that global warming is driven by the burning of fossil fuels: gasoline, coal, etc.
I see no clear reason to pay much attention to the other 1%, as most of them are being paid by the Petroleum companies.

chris wiegard
 

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Re: global warming
« Reply #24 on: 22/01/2006 03:35:12 »

 

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