The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: Why does baby have to lay flat ?  (Read 14060 times)

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Why does baby have to lay flat ?
« on: 12/01/2006 23:10:02 »
Greets,

This is question No 83 in a series of 758 baby related questions.

Why does baby have to lay flat ?..I want to give it a pillow (a shallow one)...is it so that baby doesn't suffocate ? or is there a developmental reason too ?

Also, why is it advised to put baby at the bottom of the cot rather than at the top ?

"goo goo gah gurgle flibber fart sick"..(that's baby talk for ' thanks ')

Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!


 

Offline ukmicky

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3011
    • View Profile
    • http://www.space-talk.com/
Re: Why does baby have to lay flat ?
« Reply #1 on: 12/01/2006 23:15:05 »
quote:
This is question No 83 in a series of 758 baby related questions

you best get a move on as they dont stay babies for long
 
quote:
Why does baby have to lay flat ?..I want to give it a pillow (a shallow one)...is it so that baby doesn't suffocate ? or is there a developmental reason too ?

i think it may help to eliminate the risk of them chocking on their vomit
quote:
Also, why is it advised to put baby at the bottom of the cot rather than at the top ?
:D
 
quote:
"goo goo gah gurgle flibber fart sick"..(that's baby talk for ' thanks ')

i think your wrong their, i think that means get up you lazy bastard i need winding. Thankyou is gag ga goo goo ga.  
Michael                 HAPPY NEW YEAR                    

« Last Edit: 12/01/2006 23:46:27 by ukmicky »
 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Re: Why does baby have to lay flat ?
« Reply #2 on: 12/01/2006 23:39:31 »
DOH !!..I knew I should have asked you first Michael !..after all...you're still in nappies !:D

thanks for the smiles chum.

Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!
 

Offline ukmicky

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3011
    • View Profile
    • http://www.space-talk.com/
Re: Why does baby have to lay flat ?
« Reply #3 on: 12/01/2006 23:45:24 »
quote:
DOH !!..I knew I should have asked you first Michael !..after all...you're still in nappies !


Yeah wifeys not too happy about that, still at least we know its not me who wets the seat:D

Michael                 HAPPY NEW YEAR                    
 

SPDSupport

  • Guest
Re: Why does baby have to lay flat ?
« Reply #4 on: 13/01/2006 10:38:39 »
quote:
Why does baby have to lay flat ?..I want to give it a pillow (a shallow one)...is it so that baby doesn't suffocate ? or is there a developmental reason too ?

Also, why is it advised to put baby at the bottom of the cot rather than at the top ?



Having brought up two, I can tell you that the reasoning is that a baby can toss and turn and could end up with their head under a pillow and suffocate.. and putting a baby at the bottom of a bed is fpr the same reasons... if you put it at the top they have all that room from their feet to the bottom of the cot to wriggle under and then they could suffocate..if their feet touch the bottom of the cot..they have less chance of ending up under the covers.
:)

Babies usually end up in some right positions overnight.. I once come in in the morning and found my sons arm jammed backwards through one of the bars of the cot.. scary!
Bottom of the cot..no stuffed toys etc at nighttime and dont overheat or weigh a child down with heavy blankets..best to have bedding that can be kicked off easily and have holes in it just incase..ie cellular blankets.:)

« Last Edit: 13/01/2006 10:40:23 by SPDSupport »
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2331
  • KIS Keep It Simple
    • View Profile
Re: Why does baby have to lay flat ?
« Reply #5 on: 14/01/2006 17:30:37 »
It was once believed that cot deaths could be higher when baby share bed with mother, however, careful analysis of Asian mothers that do share the bed with a baby revealed some amazing results, with significantly lower cot deaths observed while sharing with mum. This contradicted previous papers on the subject of bed sharing.

They concluded that being close to mum was obviously healthy in some way.

I concluded that after watching the video carefully, it was revealed that mum liked to be facing baby and baby's whole body was tilted in the head up position while resting on mums pillow.

"The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct."
K.I.S. "Keep it simple!"
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2331
  • KIS Keep It Simple
    • View Profile
Re: Why does baby have to lay flat ?
« Reply #6 on: 14/01/2006 17:32:46 »
Maybe its worth having a look at incubators to conclude this argument, as they do appear to have head up incined sleeping position.

"The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct."
K.I.S. "Keep it simple!"
 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Re: Why does baby have to lay flat ?
« Reply #7 on: 14/01/2006 17:51:50 »
What about having the whole cot on an incline ala your recommendations ?..rather than just the head which invokes a ' kink ' in the neck !

Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2331
  • KIS Keep It Simple
    • View Profile
Re: Why does baby have to lay flat ?
« Reply #8 on: 15/01/2006 11:28:57 »
Neil, several people including one niece, followed my advice on tilting the cot to avoid respiratory problems and to help them fight off many other infections. And so far so good, it does appear to be having a significant effect.

A friend of ours has a son who for the first 3 months of life, was ill much of the time with one thing or another, this was setting him back. You are presumably now familiar with the child progress graph given to mothers to help monitor their child's progress.

This boy was not competing on the graph for the first 3 months until we tilted his cot. Then the graph showed a clear and astonishing upturn and over the next two months he passed the graph line of the other children in his age group. Now this could have been a coincidence had it not been for several other children who this was being tried with, all of which appear to be doing very well health wise and avoiding many of the infections that other children are getting around them.

Having the upper half of the body inclined puts a compression on the spine, whereas tilting the whole bed decompresses the spine. Again we tested this by measuring height over several years and found that sleeping on the inclined bed prevents loss of height with age, shown by a marked increase in height in several people. A Lady down the road from us gained a full inch in height and even looks upright now instead of stooped posture.

My Niece also found that when she was pregnant during the latter stages of her pregnancy she had a hell of a time getting comfortable at night, and could not sleep. She tilted the bed and slept soundly and pain free from that day on.
;)

For the record: The incidence of sudden infant deaths is portrayed as having dropped dramatically since the the advent of keeping baby on his or her back to sleep. What appears to have been ignored is that the way SIDS are categorized changed at the same time that this advice was given. Undoubtedly sleeping on the back is logically safer, but it does not account for a fifty percent reduction in SIDS. Only the way SIDS are now identified and other previously thought cases of SIDS are now ignored in the statistics can account for this huge reduction. Another case for smoke and mirrors.

"The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct."
K.I.S. "Keep it simple!"
« Last Edit: 15/01/2006 11:46:59 by Andrew K Fletcher »
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2331
  • KIS Keep It Simple
    • View Profile
Re: Why does baby have to lay flat ?
« Reply #9 on: 30/01/2006 19:07:06 »
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/100/4/622
  ABSTRACT
Top
Abstract
Introduction
Results
Discussion
References

Objective.  We investigated whether nursing in the head elevated tilt position (HETP), compared with the horizontal position, has any effect on the incidence of bradycardic and hypoxemic episodes in preterm infants.

Methods.  Twelve spontaneously breathing preterm infants with idiopathic recurrent apnea were studied in a randomized controlled crossover trial. Nine infants were treated with aminophylline. Each spent a total of 24 hours in the horizontal prone position and a total of 24 hours in HETP (prone, 15). The position was changed in random order every 6 hours. Thoracic impedance, heart rate, and arterial oxygen saturation were recorded continuously. The frequency of isolated hypoxemia (arterial saturation <80%), of isolated bradycardia (heart rate <90 beats per minute), and of mixed events was analyzed and compared without knowledge of the allocated position.

Results.  In total, there were significantly fewer bradycardic and/or hypoxemic episodes (28.2%) in HETP compared with the horizontal position (mean difference, 13.35 episodes/24 hours; 95% confidence interval [CI]: 5.9- 20.8). The decrease was largest for isolated hypoxemic episodes (48.5%; mean difference, 11.74 episodes/24 hours; 95% CI: 6.1-17.4). Isolated bradycardic episodes (mean difference, 2.27 episodes/24 hours; 95% CI: 0.78-5.31) and mixed events were not decreased significantly in HETP.

Conclusions.  Nursing in a moderately tilted position (15) reduces hypoxemic events in preterm infants. This intervention is easy to apply, quickly reversible, and can be combined with drugs such as aminophylline.

Key words: bradycardia, hypoxemia, apnea, preterm infant, tilt position.

"The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct."
K.I.S. "Keep it simple!"
 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Re: Why does baby have to lay flat ?
« Reply #10 on: 31/01/2006 04:07:44 »
Thank you Andrew.

What a great article, and thanks for the link to it.

You would think this is standard practice nowadays in hospitals , for babies and adults alike....or is it ?

 Cheers...I am definitely going to incline my sons cot.

Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!
« Last Edit: 31/01/2006 04:10:16 by neilep »
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2331
  • KIS Keep It Simple
    • View Profile
Re: Why does baby have to lay flat ?
« Reply #11 on: 31/01/2006 11:55:15 »
Cot only needs to be raised by about 2 to 3 inches or 5 to 7.5 cm's due to the length of the cot. This will provide the desired effect on circulation, respiration and heart rate. Will also produce stiffer motions within a few days, indicating more efficient uptake of fluids from diet. Also noticed with people who have a spinal cord injury.

Should also notice a substantial improvement in overall health, becoming obvious when everyone else gets a cold or has influenza and baby does not, or appears to fight it off quicker.

Still waiting to see if it cures your lack of sleep Neil. Ever thought your reluctance to lay flat is from an inbuilt awareness that laying flat is not correct?



"The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct."
K.I.S. "Keep it simple!"
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2331
  • KIS Keep It Simple
    • View Profile
Why does baby have to lay flat ?
« Reply #12 on: 28/01/2008 09:08:23 »
Hi Neil

Just a note to ask if you did get around to inclining your sons cot and if so what happened :)

Andrew
 

Offline MayoFlyFarmer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 863
    • View Profile
    • http://www.myspace.com/wiguyinmn
Why does baby have to lay flat ?
« Reply #13 on: 31/01/2008 22:47:34 »
SIDS (sudden infant death syndrome) has been atributed to how an infant sleeps in its cot (or crib as we call them here).  However, while this phenommenon has been known for years, I don't know if they really have any good evidence yet as to what exactly causes it (i'm sure some sort of respitory distress). 

The funny thing (or so I've always thought) is that about every 5-10 years, the "so-called experts" completely reverse their thinking on how best to prevent it.  For a while you are supposed to put your baby on its back to sleep, then you're supposed to put your baby on its stomach... tehn they change it again.  Whatever the current school of thought is becomes so indoctrinated that people who don't follow it are cconsidered horrible neglectful parents.  How can this be when what they are doing was what was considered correct just a few years ago?

I actually believe now the current trend is a happy medium and parents are supposed to have a wedge to keep the baby propped up at an angle on its side while it ssleeps.  Once again, this piece of parenting equipment is considered essential and only bad neglectful parents would not have one.  Which to me seems ridiculous when no one had ever heard of one 5 years ago.

Thanks for reading my rant.  this topic has always annoyed me.
 

Offline JnA

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1093
  • Stunt Scientist
    • View Profile
Why does baby have to lay flat ?
« Reply #14 on: 01/02/2008 04:37:18 »
Research and statistics play a large role in what is considered 'safe' WRT SIDS. Things change because new information creates a 'lower risk' method than previously.
Things like non smoke environments, keeping the cot well ventilated, baby temp, feet at the bottom etc, while statistically lower risk, are just common sense really.



 

paul.fr

  • Guest
Why does baby have to lay flat ?
« Reply #15 on: 01/02/2008 07:05:10 »

Things like non smoke environments, keeping the cot well ventilated, baby temp, feet at the bottom etc, while statistically lower risk, are just common sense really.



To who? I would have thought that most new mothers (especially younger mothers) would get their guidance from their mother, who followed her mother...
Could be wrong, often am.
 

Offline JnA

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1093
  • Stunt Scientist
    • View Profile
Why does baby have to lay flat ?
« Reply #16 on: 01/02/2008 12:23:11 »

Things like non smoke environments, keeping the cot well ventilated, baby temp, feet at the bottom etc, while statistically lower risk, are just common sense really.



To who? I would have thought that most new mothers (especially younger mothers) would get their guidance from their mother, who followed her mother...
Could be wrong, often am.


well, to me I guess.

There's probably more information available out there to new mothers now than there has ever been. This probably helps stop wives tales from having such a huge following.
There's always cracks though.
 

paul.fr

  • Guest
Why does baby have to lay flat ?
« Reply #17 on: 01/02/2008 12:31:08 »
when my daughter was born( nearly 10 years ago), the midwife was not too much help. What we did was to buy the bookshop! All the information in them was the total opposite of what my partners mother was trying to tell us to do. Without the books, we quite possibly, would have relied on the grandparent for advice.

I suppose those books may now be outdated and the information change, i guess we did the right think though, well i hope we did.
 

Offline JnA

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1093
  • Stunt Scientist
    • View Profile
Why does baby have to lay flat ?
« Reply #18 on: 01/02/2008 12:39:19 »
i guess we did the right think though, well i hope we did.


you can probably tell by now...

"Give me the child until they are seven and I will give you the [girl]."

:)

I'm sure you've done a stellar job.



« Last Edit: 01/02/2008 12:41:22 by JnA »
 

Offline Karen W.

  • Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *****
  • Posts: 31653
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • "come fly with me"
    • View Profile
Why does baby have to lay flat ?
« Reply #19 on: 01/02/2008 16:24:33 »
Greets,

This is question No 83 in a series of 758 baby related questions.

Why does baby have to lay flat ?..I want to give it a pillow (a shallow one)...is it so that baby doesn't suffocate ? or is there a developmental reason too ?

Also, why is it advised to put baby at the bottom of the cot rather than at the top ?

"goo goo gah gurgle flibber fart sick"..(that's baby talk for ' thanks ')

<font color="blue">Men are the same as women.... just inside out !! </font id="blue">

In My experience putting the baby at the bottom was only do to the fact that a new baby wiggles and squirms his way up toward the top end of the matt by propelling him or herself forward when on the tummy.and the back when wiggling and pushing with hands and legs.. Keeps their fontenelle from being pressed up in the crib bars etc.My experience only.. may not be why they say so.. but that is what I had heard and experienced with all of mine..
 

Offline JnA

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1093
  • Stunt Scientist
    • View Profile
Why does baby have to lay flat ?
« Reply #20 on: 01/02/2008 23:33:32 »
Greets,

This is question No 83 in a series of 758 baby related questions.

Why does baby have to lay flat ?..I want to give it a pillow (a shallow one)...is it so that baby doesn't suffocate ? or is there a developmental reason too ?

Also, why is it advised to put baby at the bottom of the cot rather than at the top ?

"goo goo gah gurgle flibber fart sick"..(that's baby talk for ' thanks ')

<font color="blue">Men are the same as women.... just inside out !! </font id="blue">

In My experience putting the baby at the bottom was only do to the fact that a new baby wiggles and squirms his way up toward the top end of the matt by propelling him or herself forward when on the tummy.and the back when wiggling and pushing with hands and legs.. Keeps their fontenelle from being pressed up in the crib bars etc.My experience only.. may not be why they say so.. but that is what I had heard and experienced with all of mine..

yes, I'd say it's one of those little from column A.. etc situations. Of course it largely depends on the baby. Both of mine slept in the middle of the cot and didn't trvel much at all. The four month old has been rolling for a few weeks now and will flip on to his belly the moment I put him down.. there's not much hope me keeping him on his back.

Cot bumpers were made for heads that bump and arms and legs that slip through cot slots, but they contraindicate SIDS advice.. which is fairly typical for advice given to new mums.. of which the mantra is - it must contradict other advice and must end with the words, "but all baby's are different".
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Why does baby have to lay flat ?
« Reply #20 on: 01/02/2008 23:33:32 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums