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Author Topic: What do Blind People Dream Of ?  (Read 9261 times)

Offline neilep

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What do Blind People Dream Of ?
« on: 13/01/2006 04:29:24 »
I was just wondering...does anyone have any experience of knowing what a blind person (from birth) dreams of ?

I will ask my uncle next time I speak to him...he wasn't blind from birth but has been for the last 30 years or so.



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Offline DoctorBeaver

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Re: What do Blind People Dream Of ?
« Reply #1 on: 13/01/2006 22:18:05 »
That's something I've never even considered. Thanks for raising it & I look forward to seeing some answers
 

Offline neilep

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Re: What do Blind People Dream Of ?
« Reply #2 on: 13/01/2006 22:47:48 »
Thanks ETH...I suppose the same could be asked of deaf people (from birth) if they  'hear' things when they dream !

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Offline ukmicky

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Re: What do Blind People Dream Of ?
« Reply #3 on: 14/01/2006 02:39:59 »
we see the world in colour but do we dream in colour.

How many dimensions do we dream in.

Do the senses we use when we are awake determine how are dreams are presented to us, and if not what factors determine how are dreams are presented to us.
There is a proffessor Kevin Warwick of reading university who wired himself up like a bat and interfaced ultrasonic motion detectors to his nervous system and with his eyes blindfolded  was able to sense stationary and moving objects around him, so can he now dream like a bat.

That research must be of great interest for blind people though.





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« Last Edit: 14/01/2006 03:09:50 by ukmicky »
 

another_someone

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Re: What do Blind People Dream Of ?
« Reply #4 on: 14/01/2006 03:32:17 »
There is a related issue that I have discussed with people in the past, and that is with regard to what language people (particularly people who are multilingual) dream in.

There was someone of my acquaintance who recounted a dream she had.  She had a very slight amount of Latin that she remembered from school, but she had a dream where she was in Roman Britain, listening to some centurions talking in Latin.  She realised that they were talking Latin, and understood everything they were saying, even though she realised that her own comprehension of Latin could not possibly have comprehended the that level of conversational Latin.

It lead me to think that actually, when we dream we do not need really to sense anything.  When we dream, we merely 'know' what we are dreaming about (it is all internal, not external), and the sensory information is retrofitted to that which we 'know' happened in the dream.
 

Offline neilep

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Re: What do Blind People Dream Of ?
« Reply #5 on: 14/01/2006 05:16:51 »
could it be accepted as a possibilty that your friend was dreaming what she thought was, as Latin...rather than Latin itself ?

I have had dreams where I am flying an airplane, I have absolutely no knowledge of performing such a task but nevertheless in my dream I was piloting !

I suspect in our dream world we have perceived abilities that in the real world we most certainly do not

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another_someone

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Re: What do Blind People Dream Of ?
« Reply #6 on: 14/01/2006 05:54:48 »
quote:
Originally posted by neilep

could it be accepted as a possibilty that your friend was dreaming what she thought was, as Latin...rather than Latin itself ?




But, in some ways, how does that differ from what I was saying.  The only thing that is different is that what I was suggesting is that even if she was dreaming in English, it would only be what she thought was English.

What I am suggesting is that in the dream world, we don't start by sensing something, and then trying to interpret those senses (e.g. hearing a word said, and then trying to understand that word); but we do things the other way around, first we understand, and then we try to work out what sense should have lead to that understanding.  In this way, she first understood that she was hearing Latin, and then tried to work out what sounds should have created that understanding.
« Last Edit: 14/01/2006 05:55:32 by another_someone »
 

Offline neilep

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Re: What do Blind People Dream Of ?
« Reply #7 on: 14/01/2006 06:47:46 »
That is an interesting observational theory.

Is it not a moot point that she has had experience of latin ? Despite it being slight.

In her dream she was interpreting speech as Latin for a specific reason, in that her dream was set in Roman Britain. In this dream, even with her slight knowledge, it's not surprising that she perceived Latin.

I am quite sure that should I have the same dream I would expect it to be in English, or what I perceive as English. It's worth noting that if she was aware of her own limited comprehension of Latin whilst having the dream then she was probably pretty close to Lucid dreaming affording her a moderate level of awareness and control.

If we are led to perceive first, then assign a sense to it , then it's logical to assume that there is a precursor initiating the act of comprehension before the action itself. Why have it that way ?


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another_someone

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Re: What do Blind People Dream Of ?
« Reply #8 on: 14/01/2006 06:53:34 »
quote:
Originally posted by neilep

Is it not a moot point that she has had experience of latin  ?   Despite it being a slight.

 In her dream she was interpreting  speech as Latin for a specific reason, in that her dream was set in Roman Britain. In this dream, even with her slight knowledge, it's not surprising that she perceived Latin.



Indeed.  The fact that she knew some Latin meant she had an expectation to understand Latin, and so a dream where she understood Latin did not seem too alien a concept.

quote:

I am quite sure that should I have the same dream I would expect it to be in English, or what I perceive as English.



That is the point – you would have expected that.  Even within the realms of what you understand, you understand the fact that you do not know Latin, and this influences what you would expect.

quote:

If we are led to perceive first, then assign a sense to it , then it's logical to assume that there is a precursor initiating the act of comprehension before the action itself. Why have it that way ?




OK, I will try and speculate further.

I will guess that during our waking hours, we constantly sense things around us, and try and match up what we sense to what we expect, and derive our understanding from that matching process.

When we are dreaming, I would guess what the brain is doing is trying to expand the database of expectations.  It is trying to go through random, but reasonable scenarios (not necessarily scientifically reasonable, but reasonable in the sense that it extends what it already knows), and is preparing the waking brain in case it might meet such a scenario in real life.
« Last Edit: 14/01/2006 06:54:34 by another_someone »
 

Offline neilep

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Re: What do Blind People Dream Of ?
« Reply #9 on: 14/01/2006 07:03:54 »
If I understand you correctly...you are saying that our waking hours are the precursor that I mentioned, and that, it is the waking hour experiences which initiate the structure of the dream and utilizing existing knowledge and memories enables the perception to elaborate and fill in gaps..add data.

Well, that sounds about right to me. No arguement there.

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another_someone

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Re: What do Blind People Dream Of ?
« Reply #10 on: 14/01/2006 07:14:46 »
One consequence of the above is that I would expect it to be possible (even if unusual) for a blind person to dream that they could see (particularly if they happen to hold out hope of seeing in the future).
 

Offline neilep

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Re: What do Blind People Dream Of ?
« Reply #11 on: 14/01/2006 07:21:47 »
quote:
Originally posted by another_someone

One consequence of the above is that I would expect it to be possible (even if unusual) for a blind person to dream that they could see (particularly if they happen to hold out hope of seeing in the future).



Yes indeed. I agree.

 The blind do have the other senses to derive a wealth of information from...especially the hands...but then the sense of touch is limited to what they can....well...touch. Perhaps they could perceive a mountain and an airplane by handling models of them.

I do hope we can get a blind persons unique perspective on this.

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another_someone

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Re: What do Blind People Dream Of ?
« Reply #12 on: 14/01/2006 09:54:26 »
quote:
Originally posted by neilep

I do hope we can get a blind persons unique perspective on this.




The trouble is that there are not too many blind people who can use the Internet.  Certainly, technologies exist for the blind to use the Internet; but so many sites are designed with high graphics contents that make it difficult for the blind to use, that it can be somewhat limiting for them with regard to which sites they can browse.
« Last Edit: 14/01/2006 09:54:51 by another_someone »
 

Offline neilep

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Re: What do Blind People Dream Of ?
« Reply #13 on: 14/01/2006 14:51:04 »
quote:
Originally posted by another_someone

quote:
Originally posted by neilep

I do hope we can get a blind persons unique perspective on this.




The trouble is that there are not too many blind people who can use the Internet.  Certainly, technologies exist for the blind to use the Internet; but so many sites are designed with high graphics contents that make it difficult for the blind to use, that it can be somewhat limiting for them with regard to which sites they can browse.



I was originally hoping that the answer will come via someone who knows a blind person.

In fact my Uncle does uses the internet and has some software provided by one of the Blind Societies..but because he was not blind from birth I have  resisted contacting him with regard to this....still...his perspective may well be useful if no reply is forthhcoming here.

Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!
« Last Edit: 14/01/2006 21:57:35 by neilep »
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: What do Blind People Dream Of ?
« Reply #14 on: 14/01/2006 20:12:37 »
I don’t believe anybody actually dreams during the night with images or sounds or anything. I believe what we believe are dreams are nothing more than traces of data the brain finds as it wakes up. And during them first few moments of semi conciseness the brain then adds images and sounds to the data in an attempt to try and make sense of it.

I believe when we sleep our brains our busy doing other things. At this time our brains are placed on standby mode with most of our brain switched off, our consciousness is in sleep mode and so is unable to visualize picture’s and sounds and needs to be powered up before we can think and make sense of any data it holds or is being processed, its like a computer with the monitor switched off its just moving data about.
Our brains do two things when it’s in sleep mode its processing information, data which it’s gained during the hours when we were alert and it’s maintaining the system, the body for the next period of activity.

When we are asleep our brains use our short term memory as a sort of processing unit.
But as we begin to wake up are senses and normal brain functions begin to come on line and slowly take control, we slowly wake up and our conscious brain finds traces of the night time data streaming and tries to make some sort of sense of it by reading it   like a normal memory. Sometimes the data has enough information to read like a script or story and other times not enough to make sense (Which accounts for the weird dreams?)
And it is at this time as we wake up that our dreaming takes place as are  waking senses like sight are attached to the left over data in an attempt by are brain to make sense of it.



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« Last Edit: 14/01/2006 20:18:09 by ukmicky »
 

Offline DocN

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Re: What do Blind People Dream Of ?
« Reply #15 on: 14/01/2006 21:29:37 »
I have wondered if dreams were just a psychic control method to maintain the sleep state of near unconsciousness.
Doc
 

Offline MooseHole

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Re: What do Blind People Dream Of ?
« Reply #16 on: 31/01/2006 19:11:11 »
quote:
Sometimes the data has enough information to read like a script or story and other times not enough to make sense (Which accounts for the weird dreams?)
So how do you account for wet dreams?  Certainly this is a phenomenon that can be measured by an outside observer as happening while you're asleep.  Also, many people talk in their sleep, and then can wake up and tell people about their dreams, and they match up.

When I was in college learning about assembly language for the first time, I dreamt about it quite a bit.  One night while having an assembly language dream, my then girlfriend woke me up because she was feeling frisky.  I had drowsy sex with her in assembly language (from my perspective).  It went something like this: load, store, load, store, load, store, move from low, move from hi, shift left, *yawn* return from exception.
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: What do Blind People Dream Of ?
« Reply #17 on: 31/01/2006 21:40:30 »
quote:
So how do you account for wet dreams? Certainly this is a phenomenon that can be measured by an outside observer as happening while you're asleep. Also, many people talk in their sleep, and then can wake up and tell people about their dreams, and they match up.


Hi MooseHole
It may be a pheromone that can be studied by an outside observer but has anyone ever seen anyone have one to study it.

When my wife talks in her sleep she always wakes up as she’s talking or just after she stops, so is she talking because she’s waking up and in a semi consciences state with her brain trying to make sense of data left over from the nights data processing  and filing or does she wake up because she can hear her own voice.
And the same can be said with wet dreams when I use to have them [:o)]I always woke up as the i climaxed so did I climax as part of the waking up process like above or did the climax wake me up.Also it doesn’t take much to stimulate a man and as your waking up there’s so little other thought processes going on it would take minimal sexual thoughts to stimulate a man to the point of orgasm add to this the fact that most men also get erections as they wake up and the required stimulus needed for someone to reach orgasm suddenly becomes minimal.



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« Last Edit: 31/01/2006 21:47:48 by ukmicky »
 

Offline neilep

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Re: What do Blind People Dream Of ?
« Reply #18 on: 31/01/2006 21:51:41 »
quote:
Originally posted by ukmicky


When my wife talks in her sleep she always wakes up as she’s talking or just after she stops,

Michael                 HAPPY NEW YEAR                    



Bloody hell !!..don't those girlies know when to give it a rest ?...Michael..do the honourable thing and stick something in wifeys gob when she's yapping !!...(make sure you take her dentures out first ):D

---------------------------


Further to my original question I have in fact had just the one report that this particular blind person in question dreams in sound..accompanied  by what they describe to be as flashes of tones and hue !



(note to self: Michael and Wifey must really hate me after that cheap uncouth jibe !!!...stop being naughty !)


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« Last Edit: 01/02/2006 03:17:38 by neilep »
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: What do Blind People Dream Of ?
« Reply #19 on: 01/02/2006 03:27:24 »
:)

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Offline MooseHole

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Re: What do Blind People Dream Of ?
« Reply #20 on: 02/02/2006 16:27:56 »
From what I can tell, dreaming is supposed to happen during REM sleep, which is the most "awake" we are while "sleeping."
http://apu.sfn.org/content/Publications/BrainBriefings/rem_sleep.html
 

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Re: What do Blind People Dream Of ?
« Reply #20 on: 02/02/2006 16:27:56 »

 

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