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Author Topic: The big computer!  (Read 4043 times)

Offline Ultima

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The big computer!
« on: 14/01/2006 20:09:11 »
Hi everyone,
It has been a while since I came on here. Busy with my new job and getting used to living in a big city on my own. I have a question that is making my head hurt and can only be answered by some big physics/maths brain:

If you had a computer that was made out of all the material in the universe, and then you used it to simulate the current operating state of itís self (which is recursive) how much slower would the last calculation be compared to the real world calculation? What would be the absolute propagation of information?? HUH?! HUH!!!!

Just as an example forget the fact that it goes on forever since a new simulation loading up changes the state of the machine so it loads another etc.

For the first few iterations, how much behind or slower would the program be? I'm thinking someone has done the maths for this since there are huge tomes on computational theory. But since we are talking about the whole universe here, what is the physical limit of the states we could use for calculation?

I am talking about the whole universe so I want to know about the actual information propagating across the universe to. So thatís propagation time in the real world. Which must mean that an instructions starts before the first one has finished??? And then the simulation is going to be behind because it canít compute the same amount as the original computer otherwise you are getting a free lunch.

:D

Really looking forward to someone helping me with this one.  

Is it even possible? Would it be infinite after the first level? Since you donít have enough virtual states to represent all the ones in the universe. You need to use some sort of algorithm to cycle through them. Since thatís likely to be slower than the movement of the information in the universe just to represent the simulation. Before you start you need to start again?

This problem is to hard for me [xx(]

wOw the world spins?
« Last Edit: 14/01/2006 20:21:26 by Ultima »


 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: The big computer!
« Reply #1 on: 14/01/2006 20:27:43 »
I have no idea what your asking but thats not surprising as its me.

My first thought was your talking about the universe being one great big program running and developing itself

Michael                 HAPPY NEW YEAR                    
 

Offline DocN

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Re: The big computer!
« Reply #2 on: 14/01/2006 21:18:22 »
That idea has some merit in recent science discussions.  Some have suggested that the new quantum computers could use not just data from our own universe and its cosmic input but include input via wormholes, to multi-universes--calculations taking place on quantum particles in this case.
Doc
 

Offline neilep

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Re: The big computer!
« Reply #3 on: 14/01/2006 22:07:33 »
Excellent to see you back Matt...I'm doing some calcuations on my Abacus and will get back to you.


Good luck with the new job by the way....Can I be nosy and ask you what you do ?

Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Re: The big computer!
« Reply #4 on: 14/01/2006 23:04:26 »
To take it to the extreme, the universe IS a totally entangled quantum mechanical computer for quantum wierdness to work all the particles in the universe exist in all space and all time its just that what happens is a set of probability patterns.  And its all workinf in real time folks.  :)

Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!
« Last Edit: 14/01/2006 23:04:55 by Soul Surfer »
 

Offline Ultima

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Re: The big computer!
« Reply #5 on: 14/01/2006 23:22:22 »
Neil:
Thanks for the luck I'll need it ;) Iím working for a year in-between my degree for the Remote Sensing Group at the Plymouth Marine Laboratories. I make and look after their websites and program other tools they use for processing and archiving data. The service that funds my placement deal with data requests from people doing research in varied fields. So I have to process the satelite data they want. Iíve recently produced a lot of data for someone in the British Antarctic Survey team for the Antarctic Peninsula where lots of ice has been breaking away. I assume they want to see how this effects the environment.

I donít get to do anything that creative or scientific myself. People outside the group only notice the websites. But itís a great job for hearing about some of the latest environmental science. They have lots of visiting speakers for seminars I can go to, and I get to read all the journals for free :). It sounds a lot more fun on paper than it really is, most of the time it just feels like im doing the stuff no one else wants to do.

http://www.npm.ac.uk
http://www.npm.ac.uk/rsdas/

DocN:
I know a bit about quantum computing, but thatís just about using specific properties of quantum states that are helpful with some calculations. Even if the whole universe was used as a quantum computer you can only have so much data propagating throughout the system in so much time? Plus letís not bring quantum mechanics into this since itís not possible to know the complete state of the universe ;) Iím just wondering what the computational limits are of this imaginary machine. Modern processors have to account for propagation delay, but something on the scale of the universe is a whole new ball game.
 

Offline Ultima

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Re: The big computer!
« Reply #6 on: 14/01/2006 23:37:31 »
Soul Surfer, yeah ok.. now use the whole universe to "simulate" with time another one of itself in its current state onwards. As soon as you do that you have altered the universe to simulate its self from whatever state it was in before, so it then becomes recursive. Time in the simulated worlds will also be slower since they are calculating all the worlds below them. Then as a simulation propagates across the universe it effects the simulation its running and so on. TBH I canít keep the argument straight in my head because the scale is kind of beyond my everyday thinking.

1. Universe starts program to store the state of itself.
2. The simulation then holds a universe that is geared up to simulate its current state so it does it ďvirtuallyĒ again. GOTO 1. However in between this the simulation above the current one must be at least a state ahead, possibly moreÖ or they all show the same state, which is infinite and non deterministic?

SOMEONE HELP?

I guess when it comes down to it, that is the universe ;) infinite possibilities and at the end of the function stack trace is the outcome of every single interaction between everything else. But that sounds far to deterministic for my liking :D
Dose the information between entangled particles propagate instantaneously? If so is it possible that all the interactions we see are just the slower reflection of what has already happened in an instant from the start of the universe at some other level we donít know about?
Similar to how people have a reflexive response to something then think about the stimulus after they have already taken action, but we still like to think we thought about something consciously.
 

Offline DocN

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Re: The big computer!
« Reply #7 on: 15/01/2006 16:54:46 »
I have wondered how an electron can be in different places at the same time?  Dr. Wheeler (USA) has proposed an interesting theory called "the single electron universe"--could it be that there is only one electron in the whole universe?
Doc
 

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Re: The big computer!
« Reply #7 on: 15/01/2006 16:54:46 »

 

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