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Offline ukmicky

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people of mixed race
« on: 16/01/2006 03:30:11 »
Just like mongrel dogs are supposed to be less likely to get natural diseases and are in general more healthy than pedigree dogs  

Are people of mixed race healthier than those who are not

Michael                 HAPPY NEW YEAR                    


 

another_someone

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Re: people of mixed race
« Reply #1 on: 16/01/2006 04:18:18 »
One thing one has to be careful of in this comparison is that there are very few humans who are a inbred as thoroughbred animals.  Most humans are mongrel to some degree, even if all of their grandparents originate from the same broad racial group.

The broad racial groupings are very broad, and cover a great deal of diversity with each group.
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Re: people of mixed race
« Reply #2 on: 16/01/2006 09:55:02 »
Maybe its that mongrel dogs are less likely to be given drugs and vaccinations from the vets than pedigree dogs that preserves their lives and health longer?

Best take a look at the hamster population in the UK before drawing irrational conclusions about inbreeding also.

I tested this theory by doing a mating of litter brother and sister to see how the temperament would fair. I was very pleased with the results, managing to eliminate a skin condition and producing Lucy, whose temperament was predictably first class.

Hamsters Inspired Theory

Bryan Sykes, professor of human genetics at Oxford University, first suspected Europeans could have common lineages when he was a young boy. His inspiration came from a news story he read that stated all hamsters in the world came from one pregnant female found in the Syrian desert in 1930.

Time passed, but he remembered the hamsters. In recent years, he tested out the hamster idea by identifying and ordering the individual components of DNA taken from the droppings of several of these rodents.

He discovered that one specific kind of genetic material, mitochondrial DNA, appeared to be identical among all of the hamsters. This kind of DNA can only be passed down from a mother to her children.

Men have mtDNA in their sperm, but a chemical marks it for destruction during the fertilization process. Therefore, the hamster study findings prompted Sykes to add matriarchal clans to his developing theory about common lineages.

I also remember reading about a burial site uncovered showing a race of people all perfect, with perfect teeth and all died by peaceful means. DNA proved they practiced inbreeding. Then along came the mongrel religious fanatics and violent deaths ensued in the graves that followed.

Take a Lion for example, the male serves the whole pride, irrespective of their family relationships. A good male can even serve several prides.

They all live together and operate as a unit. Tigers and leopards on the other hand are almost always out crosses and cannot live or hunt together in harmony. The same applies to wolves and wild dogs that practice inbreeding. And also to a race of the hardiest of all humans that live as a unit in a land devoid of vegetation and rainfall.

"The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct."
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Offline daveshorts

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Re: people of mixed race
« Reply #3 on: 16/01/2006 14:02:47 »
I think that inbreeding in humans is much more dangerous than in other species as I belive that there is more genetic diversity in 200 or so mountain gorrilas that in the whole human species - this is probably because humans went through a stage with a very small population at some point so the diversity was reduced. As we are fairly inbread to start with more of it is more likely to cause problems.

I don't know if people of mixed race are generally more healthy than others, but I have noticed that they tend to be more attractive. This may be indicative of being 'fitter' in the darwinian sense.

There were a series of reports a year or two back about how women found the smell of men who had different immune system genes to themselves attractive. The arguement was that if you had more immune system genes you could fight a greater range of disease. This may be some of the reason why mongrels are healthier.
 

ROBERT

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Re: people of mixed race
« Reply #4 on: 16/01/2006 15:25:56 »
Hi Andrew K,
your incestuous hamster experiment had a 50% probability of producing diseased offspring:-

""The majority of serious genetic disorders are recessive, which means that an individual must inherit two copies of the abnormal gene (one from each parent) for the disorder to be expressed. It is much more likely that both parents will carry the same recessive gene if the parents are related. The risk of a serious disease or malformation in a child of such a union is about 1 in 20. However, among married first cousins, the risk increases to about 1 in 11. If the couple are first-degree relatives, the risk is 1 in 2.""
http://ww3.komotv.com/global/story.asp?s=1230560
« Last Edit: 16/01/2006 15:56:22 by ROBERT »
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Re: people of mixed race
« Reply #5 on: 16/01/2006 15:57:41 »
Hi Robert

I accept that doubling up on recessive genes will come around and nip you in the behind sooner or later. But you can also use inbreeding to fix type and discard the recessive gene carriers as they are prone to be more easily recognised at birth or within a few weeks of birth.

Think about it like this. At some point with all of the breeds we have today, someone somewhere would have had to have fixed type!

http://ambassadors.net/selectedstudy2.htm
Nubian inbreeding.
Thus, it seems that, in Nubia, endogamy is socially advantageous as compared with exogamy but endogamy is the social reflection of biological inbreeding, and it may, therefore, also be disadvantageous. It is known that the number of prenatal deaths, still births, and congenital malformations tends to be higher in consanguineous unions more especially in those between first-cousins than in those of unrelated couples (Stern, 1960; Stevenson et.al, 1966). Among the Nubians as a whole and among the Konouz and Fededja, the average number of live-born children per marriage is higher in unions between first cousins than in those between distant relatives and between unrelated spouses. The same trend is not shown in the Arab group (Table 3). Unfortunately, the information is insufficiently detailed to allow these figures to be examined further. It may well be, for example, that the greater number of children per union in the first-cousin marriages may be a result of the greater duration of first-cousin marriages and, there fore the longer opportunity for producing children.
"The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct."
K.I.S. "Keep it simple!"
« Last Edit: 16/01/2006 16:19:45 by Andrew K Fletcher »
 

Offline wim

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Re: people of mixed race
« Reply #6 on: 16/01/2006 16:14:30 »
I don't think this is gonna be a matter of breeding. Designerbaby's everybody must have heard of them, well I think we'll have them within this and twenty years so if you are talking about genetically being advantaged I think that's the way we will follow. This would also make our species genetically stronger. Genetic disorders would be excluded, there's been a lot of protest at research in this area butt i believe it's one of the best things that can happen to humanity.

response anybody?
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Re: people of mixed race
« Reply #7 on: 16/01/2006 16:26:16 »
Inclined to think along those lines myself Wim.

For example, Hypothetically, lets say Africa's aids epidemic wiped out all but two people, who appeared to be immune to the virus. They had children, some of whom were also immune, these children had children of their own and so on. Now we have a new civilisation which is disease free, until the virus mutates again at least.

Whats the alternative for lets say non-inbreeding in the same situation?

Andrew

"The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct."
K.I.S. "Keep it simple!"
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: people of mixed race
« Reply #8 on: 17/01/2006 00:24:36 »
quote:
don't know if people of mixed race are generally more healthy than others, but I have noticed that they tend to be more attractive. This may be indicative of being 'fitter' in the darwinian sense.

Dave  I must Thankyou, i take it you saw my profile picture.However i would have prefered it if your comment came from a female.:D

Michael                 HAPPY NEW YEAR                    
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: people of mixed race
« Reply #9 on: 17/01/2006 00:49:19 »
quote:
I don't think this is gonna be a matter of breeding. Designerbaby's everybody must have heard of them, well I think we'll have them within this and twenty years so if you are talking about genetically being advantaged I think that's the way we will follow. This would also make our species genetically stronger. Genetic disorders would be excluded, there's been a lot of protest at research in this area butt i believe it's one of the best things that can happen to humanity.

wim

I dont know if i can agree with that because messing about with genes is a very haphazard process. Take dolly the sheep for instance, whilst dolly and her daughter may  have been born healthy there were many many (247) other sheep which were aborted before and after dolly due to genetic defects. Genetic manipulation has many hidden dangers and foetal defects arise in most attempts. its a bit like the uncertainty principle, you dont know what your gonna get on till it arrives. and the level of knowledge required for the process to be successful may always be beyond our grasp.


Michael                 HAPPY NEW YEAR                    
 

ROBERT

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Re: people of mixed race
« Reply #10 on: 17/01/2006 12:48:43 »
quote:
Originally posted by Andrew K Fletcher


Best take a look at the hamster population in the UK before drawing irrational conclusions about inbreeding.

K.I.S. "Keep it simple!"



You are quite right Andrew, people instinctively find incest disgusting:
 it is not a rational response, but an innate one.

The fact that this innate (inherited) response is virtually universal*
demonstrates that incestuous unions are not successful.


(* with the exception of "Genetic Sexual Attraction" (GSA)).
« Last Edit: 17/01/2006 15:21:36 by ROBERT »
 

Offline wim

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Re: people of mixed race
« Reply #11 on: 17/01/2006 14:20:44 »
yes offcourse there have been many failures, butt i think that's commen to scientefic research. Maybe you're right and we shouldn't be messing with the human genome, butt when i read magazines and articles on the internet, i can only conclude that our knwoledge about this fairly new subject(the human genome) is increasing every day. So you really think we will never be capable of fixing genetic errors without doing anything "wrong" ?

We can genetically alter mouse so they grow human ears and stuff butt we wouldn't be able to exclude genetic failures and diseases in the human genome, I find this very hard to believe. Ok our genes are the blueprint of ourselves ans we don't quite understand them yet(altough we are starting to know pretty much) butt this research area is very hot so the results will come cause eventually it's all logic and science.
« Last Edit: 17/01/2006 15:37:40 by wim »
 

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Re: people of mixed race
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