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Author Topic: Do aliens exist?  (Read 23090 times)

Offline Voltaire

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Do aliens exist?
« Reply #25 on: 05/08/2010 19:35:59 »
Let us, for the sake of the argument, assume that alien life does exist and that 'they' can visit earth because they are advanced. What would they see when they get here? Take yourself out of this world and look at it objectively...
1. humans are at war with each other, sometimes genocidally so
2. there is murder and mayhem, psychosis-inducing drugs and so on
3. there are madmen at the head of some countries
4. there is competition for technology so that we can build better bombs with which to kill each other
5. there is competition for resources because there are too many of us
6. our laws allow us to take from the poor to give more to the rich
7. the people sworn to protect society (even those who are elected) are corruptible and evil
8. we squander resources at each others' expense because we believe that consumerism is good for us
9. the most profound philosophies e.g. religion has tuned us into stark raving lunatics

Now consider the alien from planet X:
They are at war with planet Y about a Dyson sphere that they built together. They basically have the same problems as us but on a different level. Planet Y also knows about us.
What happens when Mr. X lands in Washington? Does Mrs. Y land a delegation in Pyongyang? And what happens if they show us their 'stuff' and our view of the cosmos is so fundamentally challenged that we think they are devils? And who do we trust? Mr. X or Mrs. Y. And what if Mrs. Y is REALLY acting in our interest but their species is uglier than Mr. X's species? Do we believe Vanity Fair or the political review? And who is bribing who at the top level and how much is big business getting? And what if Mrs. Y has already cut a deal with big business and their lobby groups? So what if a couple of billion of us die? There are too many of us anyway!

But hey; somewhere there is also a level III civilization who are watching 'them' and 'us' closely and who wisely decide that it is not a good idea for Mr. X and Mrs. Y to land here. So they explode their vessels with, as yet undiscovered and untraceable, energy beams.

And who knows who watches the watchers...
 

Offline Murchie85

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Do aliens exist?
« Reply #26 on: 05/08/2010 22:31:40 »
Agreed with Graham, what seems impossible or outlandish sometimes becomes reality. I bet if you described todays world to a scientist 120 years ago they would laugh... and probably hang you :D In seriousness though I don't see a reason why that trend can't continue and ways of ftl may be a reality.
A room with monkeys typewriters given a huge period of time could type the script of Shakespeare just like an alien race with a huge time for development could find away around the problems of interstellar travel. 
 

Offline neilep

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Do aliens exist?
« Reply #27 on: 06/08/2010 08:33:53 »
I now have the categorical proof that ALIENS do exist !!

Watch this and be amazed ..

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2473203/louis_therouxs_weird_weekends_korton/
 

Offline Voltaire

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Do aliens exist?
« Reply #28 on: 06/08/2010 12:09:20 »
General McAuliffe said it best: NUTS!
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #29 on: 06/08/2010 23:51:31 »
I now have the categorical proof that ALIENS do exist !!

Watch this and be amazed ..

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2473203/louis_therouxs_weird_weekends_korton/

Neil, I just KNEWE if anyone could solve this ancient question, it would be...EWE!
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #30 on: 07/08/2010 05:01:07 »

And, Sheepy Neil, the most absolutely convincing evidence is the small model spacecraft (not to be confused with a plastic toy!!) - sitting off to the side of the Space Channeler as he conducts his incredible Extraterrestrial Visitation!

Champagne celebration is in order here!!! Skeptics: eat your heart out! :)
 

Offline syhprum

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« Reply #31 on: 07/08/2010 09:12:55 »
"A room with monkeys typewriters given a huge period of time could type the script of Shakespeare"

If you do the calculation of the time it would take for this roomfull of monkeys to type out the complete works of Shakespeare you will find it vastly greater than the conceivable life of the universe 
 

Offline Murchie85

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« Reply #32 on: 07/08/2010 10:01:20 »
Syphrum the Shakespeare reference was not to be connected with the concievability of life, but more to do with the time it would take a race to master FTL, the point being given a huge amount of time pretty much anything can be achieved within limits. 
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #33 on: 07/08/2010 18:57:58 »

Neil, do ewe get the impression that you and I are the only ones taking each other seriously here???
 

Offline JP

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« Reply #34 on: 07/08/2010 19:04:24 »
I now have the categorical proof that ALIENS do exist !!

Watch this and be amazed ..

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2473203/louis_therouxs_weird_weekends_korton/

Bad news!  I was doing some research on the subject* and I came across this disturbing link...

http://demicouture.ca/2009/12/02/toddlands-piece-de-resistance-aliensheep-sweater-is-knit-gold/

I think they're after you, Neil!

*Ok... so I was Googling +alien +sheep +abduction
 

Offline neilep

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« Reply #35 on: 07/08/2010 19:32:23 »

Neil, do ewe get the impression that you and I are the only ones taking each other seriously here???

Quite right Demo !..we ae dealing with this subject in a most scientific authoritative way .....with diligence and duty !
 

Offline neilep

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« Reply #36 on: 07/08/2010 19:39:41 »
I now have the categorical proof that ALIENS do exist !!

Watch this and be amazed ..

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2473203/louis_therouxs_weird_weekends_korton/

Bad news!  I was doing some research on the subject* and I came across this disturbing link...

http://demicouture.ca/2009/12/02/toddlands-piece-de-resistance-aliensheep-sweater-is-knit-gold/

I think they're after you, Neil!

*Ok... so I was Googling +alien +sheep +abduction

Uh oh !!...ewe're right....they are after me....the manufacturers are still awaiting their next consignment of sheepy wool that I owe them !  ;)
« Last Edit: 07/08/2010 19:44:59 by neilep »
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #37 on: 07/08/2010 19:54:51 »
Sheepy Neil, I'm afraid JP is right!!!

             
               
 

Offline Murchie85

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« Reply #38 on: 10/08/2010 18:55:06 »
I think titan may hold a key to strange different life from earth that is a small but real possibility. The only other planet in the solar system which has a dense atmosphere, seas, possibly lakes and rivers (of ethane not water) with an active climate of wind and rain and features similar to earth such as sand dunes etc.
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #39 on: 10/08/2010 22:33:29 »

Well, as far as evidence go, we don't have much...

...We do not know for sure if life is present in our solar system, let alone our galaxy, let alone the Universe!


Does anyone else think that there's a reasonable possibility that some evidence is being withheld?
 

Offline Joe L. Ogan

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« Reply #40 on: 10/08/2010 23:00:04 »

Well, as far as evidence go, we don't have much...

...We do not know for sure if life is present in our solar system, let alone our galaxy, let alone the Universe!


Does anyone else think that there's a reasonable possibility that some evidence is being withheld?

I rather doubt that information is being withheld.  That sort of information would find a way of being revealed.  Thanks for comments.  Joe L. Ogan
 

Offline Murchie85

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« Reply #41 on: 10/08/2010 23:11:29 »
Rami, you are right, well spotted Titan is a moon of saturn I guess I forgot when I was generalizing places for life.

In terms of information being withheld about ET life well I think that would be very doubtful as a secret that big would eventually leak as someone would sooner or later spill the beans. I don't see the governments of the world being able to hold any more information than the civilian and industry when it comes to extra terrestrial phenomena.. but there is always the chance...
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #42 on: 11/08/2010 03:44:29 »


Well, as far as evidence go, we don't have much...

...We do not know for sure if life is present in our solar system, let alone our galaxy, let alone the Universe!


Does anyone else think that there's a reasonable possibility that some evidence is being withheld?


I rather doubt that information is being withheld.  That sort of information would find a way of being revealed.  Thanks for comments.  Joe L. Ogan


Here's some interesting testimony by Dr Edgar Mitchell, former NASA astronaut - at last year's X-Conference, about which I posted here earlier:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/04/20/ufo.conference/index.html?iref=allsearch

And his interview on The Discovery Channel:
http://dsc.discovery.com/space/qa/alien-ufo-edgar-mitchell.html


Dr Mitchell earned his PhD from MIT and studied astronomy at Harvard and MIT.
 

Offline Ophiolite

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« Reply #43 on: 11/08/2010 09:51:25 »
The only way I can conceive of inter stellar travel being possible is if the crew have a different conception of time to us with lifetimes of maybe 100,000 years.
1. Our ancestors were not averse to undertaking voyages of several years duration for exploration. Darwin, for example spent almost 7% of his life on the Beagle. If our hypothetical aliens had a lifespan of only five hundred years and were willing to devote similar ppercentage of their lives they could comfortably travel to adjacent stars moving at no more than 10% of the speed of light.
2. Large generation ships could travel very long distances at slow speeds.
3. Deep freeze the crew and revive them on arrival.
4. Send only frozen embryos or eggs and sperm. Have AIs initiate growth on arrival at the target system, and raise the first generation.
5. How it's actually done, but I haven't thought of yet.
 

Offline syhprum

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« Reply #44 on: 11/08/2010 10:03:33 »
There are big problems with traveling a 1. c small flecks of paint are considered a worry for satellites travelling at 10Km/s guess what a speck of dust would do to a spacecraft travelling at .1 c 
 

Offline Murchie85

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« Reply #45 on: 11/08/2010 11:23:31 »
.Transportation via entanglement or quantum tunneling
.Hyperspace via wormholes(if it exists)
.sub light percentage of speed drives eg anti matter, or tritium fusion drives (just with a way to avoid interacting with debris would be a major issue)
.folding space

These are just a few hypothetical means to travel across the galaxy/universe effectively but they all require one thing HUGE amounts of energy, our combined consumption and production of our planet does not even approach 1% of whats needed so from an outsiders perspective what would be the point in venturing to a planet thats got little to offer (although they could fuel up at jupiter resources wise).

Again just to re iterate a civilization that has mastered intergalactic travel would have little to gain from us culturally, technologically and spiritually even with our diversity they would probably more likely be seeking out their equals or peers in the universe.
In short we don't go to ant hills and say to the ants "take me to your leader, I bring trinkets and treasures to share" {quote Micheo Kaku theoretical Physicist new york}.
 

Offline imatfaal

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« Reply #46 on: 11/08/2010 13:26:21 »
Again just to re iterate a civilization that has mastered intergalactic travel would have little to gain from us culturally, technologically and spiritually even with our diversity they would probably more likely be seeking out their equals or peers in the universe.
In short we don't go to ant hills and say to the ants "take me to your leader, I bring trinkets and treasures to share" {quote Micheo Kaku theoretical Physicist new york}.

Much as I like Micheo Kaku - he's wrong; we do that all the time.  We presume that we are not understood - and the trinkets and treasure are food in a controlled environment - but every day hundreds of experiments are undertaken that involve gifts of food to other species to induce communication.  Just today on the radio they were describing a breakthrough with an orang-utan that can perform mimes of the action he wants his human audience to re-enact.  If you give the orang a sealed coconut he will mime opening it with a machete and then hand it back to be opened. 

But we presume that the animals don't really understand us, perhaps the aliens have made similar presumptions; so I guess your point still stands

Matthew
 

Offline Ophiolite

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« Reply #47 on: 11/08/2010 16:56:30 »
There are big problems with traveling a 1. c small flecks of paint are considered a worry for satellites travelling at 10Km/s guess what a speck of dust would do to a spacecraft travelling at .1 c 
Big problems are what engineering is for. Magnetic fields deflect any charged particles. Lasers distinegrate larger items. Subtle adjustments to course allow avoidance of sizeable objects. and you have a ruddy big ablative shield sticking out in front. 10 metres thick layered composites should do the trick.
 

Offline imatfaal

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« Reply #48 on: 12/08/2010 16:01:16 »
Subtle course adjustments whilst travelling at ten percent of the speed of light?  Back of envelope calcs a grain of salt at 0.1c has kinetic energy in the terajoule range - about a tenth of the original atomic bombs.
 

Offline Joe L. Ogan

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« Reply #49 on: 12/08/2010 17:59:16 »
Is that really true?  Thanks for comments.  Joe L. Ogan
 

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Do aliens exist?
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