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Offline Murchie85

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« Reply #50 on: 12/08/2010 20:44:53 »
In our terms there are no subtle adjustments when travelling at 10% speed of light, a second and your millions of miles of course. Although for a race advanced enough to even reach that speed would (in my opinion) be able to get round the problem of space debris.
 

Offline FatBuddhaBoo

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« Reply #51 on: 12/08/2010 23:05:58 »
There are many examples of life living under extreme conditions here on earth of course.....a whole variety adapted to 'non-human' conditions.

Of all the statements in this thread, I have to agree with this one the most.  If "life" can exist in such inhospitable conditions like this, surely there can be "life" existing somewhere else in the universe.
 

Offline Murchie85

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« Reply #52 on: 14/08/2010 11:30:10 »
Yes like we have said on places like europa and titan, but the million dollar question is CAN COMPLEX life exist in these conditions, that I would give my left arm to know.
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #53 on: 14/08/2010 20:02:34 »

Just curious, why doesn't testimony like Dr Edgar Mitchell's that I posted seem to spark any interest? I can rattle off many, many more people with credentials that are hard to dismiss. Not definitive by a long stretch, but in my mind at least, awfully intriguing as possible evidence worth exploring!
 

Offline imatfaal

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« Reply #54 on: 14/08/2010 23:19:05 »

Just curious, why doesn't testimony like Dr Edgar Mitchell's that I posted seem to spark any interest? I can rattle off many, many more people with credentials that are hard to dismiss. Not definitive by a long stretch, but in my mind at least, awfully intriguing as possible evidence worth exploring!


I ignore him because, apart from being to the moon (and I know that is a big 'apart'), he is just one guy who frankly seems a little odd.  I actively dislike those who promulgate distance healing, as I believe it causes great misery and suffering in those who are duped into believing it. 

My failure which is in common with the bulk of scientific community to dismiss these tales of aliens/roswell/etc could be one of the greatest failing of modern science - but i do not think so.  The promoters still believe in crop circles - I knew the people who made those (well some of them.)  I have sat watching people on tv explain the evidence that they could never be man-made with the man that made them sitting next to me.

Matthew
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #55 on: 15/08/2010 14:52:27 »


Thanks, Matthew! I've looked at Roswell over the last 15 years, talked to "witnesses", spoke with and  read an enormous  amount from both believers as well as skeptics, and spoke with and read the most credible researchers I could find.

Predictably, I found the numerous flakes, liars, and cashing-in types, inconsistencies, on and on, in abundance.

But after each new round of exposed-hogwash, I nevertheless consistently continue to find possibilities  that - as a whole pattern - won't allow me to dismiss the case and move on.

I almost wish that the remaining, lightly nagging wonderment would finally go away so that I can focus more on real tangibles. But I can't.
 

Offline gene54

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« Reply #56 on: 17/08/2010 00:36:48 »
Aliens definitely exists. I have one now in my basement.
 

Offline Joe L. Ogan

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« Reply #57 on: 17/08/2010 00:52:51 »
Do you have a name for him, her or it?  Thanks for comments.  Joe L. Ogan
« Last Edit: 17/08/2010 18:33:34 by Joe L. Ogan »
 

Offline JP

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« Reply #58 on: 18/08/2010 04:34:56 »
I heard an interesting point today in a science podcast.  They were interviewing some SETI scientists and asked what would happen if an extraterrestrial signal were detected.  The response was that it's impossible for the government to jump in and hush it up--in fact, they know what would happen since they had a false alarm in 1997.  The media immediately began calling up and printing stories, even before the scientists could check to see if the signal was manmade or not.  Of course, it turned out to be manmade, but it became pretty clear that the government doesn't have a plan in place to hush up the findings.

From the SETI page:
Quote
That’s a very important, and currently unavoidable fact. Another relevant circumstance is that SETI is done in the open. For example, at every radio telescope we’ve ever used, there are observatory (not SETI) personnel in the control room 24/7, not to mention local visitors and a raft of other interested parties (Jimi Hendrix’s sister, several Silicon Valley executives, Isaac Asimov’s daughter, and Miss Puerto Rico are among many who toured the control room at Arecibo during Project Phoenix observations). If we’re looking at an interesting signal – one that’s passing the tests that can separate the local interference from an extraterrestrial transmission – then a lot of people know, even before we call up someone in another state or another country to verify its reality. The excitement begins to build long before the detection is confirmed.

What happens thereafter departs from the protocol, because the media start calling. When, in June of 1997, we had a suspicious signal on our computer screens, a New York Times science reporter was on the phone with me within hours. At the same time, a TV crew was, by chance, in the control room of the telescope. As it turned out, that signal, which slipped by our usual software filters due to an equipment malfunction, was from a European research satellite (SOHO) whose telemetry was bouncing around the steelwork of the radio telescope.

It all means the following: you will be media-blasted about a possible detection days before the people who find it are certain it’s for real. (This may pose a dilemma for SETI Institute scientists, who always keep a bottle of champagne at the observing site. When do we pop the cork?) There’s also the near-certain consequence that there will be false alarms for SETI experiments in the future, as reporters describe interesting signals which, upon closer inspection, turn out to be telecommunication satellites, airport radar, or just electronic noise.
 

Offline Murchie85

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« Reply #59 on: 18/08/2010 16:22:53 »
JP, I couldn't agree with you more. Plus at the end of the day, the people working for the government are only human and it only takes one to leak info.
 

Offline syhprum

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« Reply #60 on: 18/08/2010 18:24:22 »
There is a report of the investigation into the 1977 'WOW' incident, it is very thorough and seems to exclude terrestrial sources.

http://www.bigear.org/Wow30th/wow30th.htm
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #61 on: 19/08/2010 03:09:01 »

SETI is out in the open, Roswell was a secretive operation, the only military base worldwide trained and ready for atomic bomb missions. Unlike SETI's media environment of today, in those early postwar days, the media did as they were told.

I've seen video testimony of the Roswell chief intelligence officer (I also spoke to his son, now a military surgeon, who saw the strange, alleged ET material), as well as many other highly trained/skilled personnel - in the 70s, _way_ before the Roswell media hoopla and amateur circus began.

Severe military threats (numerous death threats, including threats toward family) as well as ET craft and alien-life forms were testified about - repeatedly.

I just don't know how we can write off so many statements from so many credible individuals.
 

Offline Ophiolite

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« Reply #62 on: 19/08/2010 03:47:02 »
I just don't know how we can write off so many statements from so many credible individuals.
I am interested in how you are defining credible. I'm not sure I consider any individual credible. I certainly don't consider myself credible as a source of eye-witness testimony, so I am slightly unsure of why I should think this way of others.
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #63 on: 19/08/2010 04:39:41 »

I am interested in how you are defining credible.


The key witness was the chief intelligence officer of the only atomic bomb military unit in the world. His job was to know aircraft. He stated clearly in his video testimony that the craft was unlike any found on earth.
 

Offline JP

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« Reply #64 on: 19/08/2010 05:24:58 »

I am interested in how you are defining credible.


The key witness was the chief intelligence officer of the only atomic bomb military unit in the world. His job was to know aircraft. He stated clearly in his video testimony that the craft was unlike any found on earth.

But his job probably didn't entail identifying crashed weather balloons.  Any debate here is just going to come down to whether the eyewitness accounts that haven't been debunked are strong enough in their entirety to make a case for extraterrestrials visiting earth. 

I come down on the side that eyewitness accounts are very poor evidence to begin with, especially since so many surrounding UFOs have been debunked.  Clearly there's some compelling reason a lot of people tell false accounts of UFOs--some clearly want publicity and some have convinced themselves that their stories are true despite them being demonstrably false.

Anyway, in support of memories being faulty, here's another interesting read from Slate:

http://www.slate.com/id/2256089/

It's got nothing to do with UFOs, but is a very interesting account of the research into implanting and modifying memories and how fallible eyewitness testimony can be.
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #65 on: 19/08/2010 07:07:33 »

I can't apply that logic for 2  reasons: (1) hundreds of people essentially saying the same thing, with a strong pattern emerging  - starting way back before media reporting and books could influence statements, individual, minute details corroborating each other and forming a lucid, logical story, and (2) extraordinary events with deep personal meanings (e.g., death threats) stand out far stronger in people's memories.
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #66 on: 21/08/2010 02:21:44 »

I am interested in how you are defining credible.


The key witness was the chief intelligence officer of the only atomic bomb military unit in the world. His job was to know aircraft. He stated clearly in his video testimony that the craft was unlike any found on earth.


But his job probably didn't entail identifying crashed weather balloons.


Hundreds and hundreds of them. NYU projects, Alamagordos, White Sands, on and on. It was THE most common occurrence in the vicinity.
 

Offline Murchie85

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« Reply #67 on: 21/08/2010 17:49:35 »
At the end of the day, there is no CREDIBLE testable evidence and as scientists on "the naked scientist" we like testable material otherwise it is just another interesting theory. Even if I conceded the fact that an alien ship did appear over Roswell area, I find it extremely unlikely that a race could travel trillions and trillions of miles yet to crash their ship on earth. It would be like running a marathon and falling face first on the finish line. Also a race with that tech wouldn't allow themselves to be experimented on. Sorry but it sounds like wishfull thinking to me.
 

Offline syhprum

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« Reply #68 on: 21/08/2010 18:20:38 »
I know that there were aliens in the spaceship that crashed at Roswell as I saw an autopsy conducted on TV on one of the bodies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_autopsy
« Last Edit: 21/08/2010 18:54:36 by syhprum »
 

Offline Ophiolite

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« Reply #69 on: 21/08/2010 18:29:39 »
At the end of the day, there is no CREDIBLE testable evidence .....
On the other hand such evidence as there is is wholly consistent with the proven unreliability of eyewitnesses and the gullibility of the population at large.
 

Offline Joe L. Ogan

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« Reply #70 on: 21/08/2010 18:31:31 »
The US military say that the debris recovered from a high space weather event is that which is claimed as a body of an alien.  Thanks for comments.  Joe L. Ogan
« Last Edit: 21/08/2010 18:34:21 by Joe L. Ogan »
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #71 on: 21/08/2010 21:29:50 »

At the end of the day, there is no CREDIBLE testable evidence


You don't know that for certain. There is enough credible testimony to suggest otherwise. I don't know for certain either, all I'm saying is let's find out 100% either way.
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #72 on: 21/08/2010 21:34:19 »
The US military say that the debris recovered from a high space weather event is that which is claimed as a body of an alien.  Thanks for comments.  Joe L. Ogan


With a 10-year gap between testimony and military "hypothesis".
 

Offline Joe L. Ogan

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« Reply #73 on: 21/08/2010 22:54:02 »
Well, there is really not much evidence of aliens but it is sort like religion, if you want to believe it, you do not need much evidence, just take it on faith!  Thanks for comments.  Joe L. Ogan
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #74 on: 22/08/2010 05:41:40 »
I know that there were aliens in the spaceship that crashed at Roswell as I saw an autopsy conducted on TV on one of the bodies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_autopsy


Thanks for bringing this up. This is an example of "evidence" that - personally - I believe has been sufficiently debunked and warrants no further investigation.

The other testimonial info? It goes way beyond "wishful thinking". My opinion. But I  certainly can't point to a neat laboratory filled with hard ET data and artifacts. :)

Admittedly, this is  a "gray" area (no pun intended), but considering the giant implications for mankind, it's a worthwhile limited pursuit.
« Last Edit: 22/08/2010 06:01:13 by demografx »
 

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