The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: center of the universe?  (Read 2962 times)

Offline CPT ArkAngel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 586
  • Thanked: 4 times
    • View Profile
center of the universe?
« on: 14/09/2010 00:49:24 »
Does anyone know about people trying to find and observe the coordinate of where the big bang occur? I don't find anything...


 


Offline Soul Surfer

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3345
  • keep banging the rocks together
    • View Profile
    • ian kimber's web workspace
center of the universe?
« Reply #2 on: 14/09/2010 09:14:39 »
There is no place to look for the centre of the big bang because it cannot exist at a specific location so no one is looking for it.  The expansion of the universe is the EXPANSION OF SPACE ITSELF and not things moving apart with speed like an explosion.  This is a very common misunderstanding.  This also means that the rate of separation of objects by this process is not limited to the speed of light.  if the expansion rate  is increasing it just means that things can vanish over a different sort of event horizon as they move away with the space faster than the speed of light.
 

Offline abacus9900

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
center of the universe?
« Reply #3 on: 14/09/2010 12:55:58 »
Does anyone know about people trying to find and observe the coordinate of where the big bang occur? I don't find anything...


It is a strange idea to get your head around, but if science is correct about the expansion of the universe all the galaxies and so on were in the same place, i.e. HERE! At that time the universe would have been greatly compressed and very hot. It is calculated that this state existed around 13 to 14 billion years ago. So, there is no one place where one could say the big bang occurred because it happened everywhere! Think of blowing up a ballon. There isn't any one place on the surface of the ballon that can claim to be at the center of the inflation as all places are inflated together.

« Last Edit: 14/09/2010 12:59:54 by abacus9900 »
 

Offline yor_on

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 12001
  • Thanked: 4 times
  • (Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
    • View Profile
center of the universe?
« Reply #4 on: 14/09/2010 16:56:30 »
You can also think of it in 'frames of reference' and their respective world lines.. There is an example  from Roger Penrose's book, 'The Emperor's New Mind', in where you have two guys passing each other at the street. Ah, Wanna guess their names? Yep, Bob and Alice :)

"Imagine that the Andromeda galaxy, which is about two million light years or 21019 kilometers from Earth, is at rest with respect to Earth. On Earth two friends walk past each other, Alice walking along the Earth-Andromeda line towards Andromeda, Bob walking along that line but away from Andromeda. Each is walking at a comfortable pace, say 4 km/hour. One can calculate that their planes (or spaces) of simultaneity at the instant at which they pass each other on Earth (Call the event of their meeting O) intersect the history or world line of Andromeda about 5 days apart. (Call these two events A and B, respectively. We are idealizing Andromeda as a point, for the purpose of this example.) Imagine, finally, that during this 5 day period between B and A a momentous thing happens. The Andromedeans launch a space fleet aimed at invading Earth.



The launch of the invading fleet is prior to A and so in some sense in Alice's past. But since the launch is after B, it is in that same sense in Bob's future. Penrose comments:

    Two people pass each other on the street; and according to one of the two people, an Andromedean space fleet has already set off on its journey, while to the other, the decision as to whether or not the journey will actually take place has not yet been made. How can there still be some uncertainty as to the outcome of that decision? If to either person the decision has already been made, then surely there cannot be any uncertainty. The launching of the space fleet is an inevitability. (p. 303)".

Taken verbatim from Being and Becoming in Modern Physics: The Metaphysics Research Lab, Stanford university

They have a lot of really interesting stuff there btw.
And the point here is twofold, or possibly more :)

If we can't define what time is, even when treating it according to relativity and our best understanding, how can we then expect us to pinpoint an exact location for a big bang? And the other is, what the he* is time, that we have those 'frames of reference'?


« Last Edit: 14/09/2010 16:59:10 by yor_on »
 

Offline CPT ArkAngel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 586
  • Thanked: 4 times
    • View Profile
center of the universe?
« Reply #5 on: 14/09/2010 18:45:37 »
I know that probably there is no center but no one can be totally sure. I just asked if you heard about some people looking for it... :O) Some people believe the Universe is spherical, so if you go one way you will come back around (theoritically speaking).

If the center of Universe was a white hole, it should have coordinates...
 

Offline abacus9900

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
center of the universe?
« Reply #6 on: 14/09/2010 18:54:09 »
I think people get confused about this idea because they assume there was some kind of 'external' space that existed before inflation took place. The space that now exists over the universe is simply a magnification of the space that existed at the time of the big bang; before that space did not exist. The point I am trying to make is that there was no pre-existing reference 'outside' of the big bang to compare any point with in the very early moments of the universe.
 

Offline abacus9900

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
center of the universe?
« Reply #7 on: 14/09/2010 18:59:48 »
I know that probably there is no center but no one can be totally sure. I just asked if you heard about some people looking for it... :O) Some people believe the Universe is spherical, so if you go one way you will come back around (theoritically speaking).


If the center of Universe was a white hole, it should have coordinates...


As far as I know, the latest observations indicate that the universe is flat to within about 2% accuracy
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

center of the universe?
« Reply #7 on: 14/09/2010 18:59:48 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums