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Author Topic: My research indicates that primary care physicians are grossly underpaid?  (Read 5498 times)

Offline Joe L. Ogan

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My research indicates that primary care physicans are grossly underpaid for what they do.  What can we do about this?  It is so bad that too many physicians are leaving the primary care branch of medical practice.  We, the public, have no control over this.  Who is responsible for setting the practice of underpayment?  I believe that the general public should become alarmed enough about this to try to do something about it.  But, just what?  I haven't a clue but I am going to make a concerted effort to find out.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  Thanks for comments.  Joe L. Ogan
« Last Edit: 23/09/2010 22:00:59 by Joe L. Ogan »


 

Offline tommya300

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A subject like this, is quite debatable and controversial.

 I do not believe there can be an across the board, cut and dry earning, even though it may exist...
 
As a patient, I think the individual GP, should be graded on how good or poorly they perform in their practice!
They should be compensated for this; good performance, good pay,  poor performance, poor pay, bad performance, dismissal.
 
Health care is already priced out of reach for the middle class!
 Who is getting this money, the pencil pushing Doctor's Administration?
 Without insurance it would be a dying business, or leave to reason, the only reason to live is to pay off the medical bills.
 Key word, business, that is what it has become! Society may be to blame?

The better doctors I have encountered, were the ones who, care and believe they can help, with their care giving, and have a high percentage of successful diagnoses and treatment, the dollar comes in second.

 The ones that only care about the all mighty dollar, should be weeded out, because that is their primary focus, and that they do more damage medically and financially, helping to drive Health Care costs up higher.

The good GP should be taken care of but without destroying the finances of their patient.

Really, this question, through the public eye, is like asking someone to shot there own foot off.
 
 
 

Offline Joe L. Ogan

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A subject like this, is quite debatable and controversial.

 I do not believe there can be an across the board, cut and dry earning, even though it may exist...
 
As a patient, I think the individual GP, should be graded on how good or poorly they perform in their practice!
They should be compensated for this; good performance, good pay,  poor performance, poor pay, bad performance, dismissal.
 
Health care is already priced out of reach for the middle class!
 Who is getting this money, the pencil pushing Doctor's Administration?
 Without insurance it would be a dying business, or leave to reason, the only reason to live is to pay off the medical bills.
 Key word, business, that is what it has become! Society may be to blame?

The better doctors I have encountered, were the ones who, care and believe they can help, with their care giving, and have a high percentage of successful diagnoses and treatment, the dollar comes in second.

 The ones that only care about the all mighty dollar, should be weeded out, because that is their primary focus, and that they do more damage medically and financially, helping to drive Health Care costs up higher.

The good GP should be taken care of but without destroying the finances of their patient.

Really, this question, through the public eye, is like asking someone to shot there own foot off.
 
 

Well, if the first concern of a doctor is care of the patient and the dollar comes second, why are so many doctors leaving the general practice to go into specialities?  The pay is much better there and that leads me to believe that is their primary motivation.  Thanks for comments.  Joe L. Ogan
 

Offline tommya300

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A subject like this, is quite debatable and controversial.

 I do not believe there can be an across the board, cut and dry earning, even though it may exist...
 
As a patient, I think the individual GP, should be graded on how good or poorly they perform in their practice!
They should be compensated for this; good performance, good pay,  poor performance, poor pay, bad performance, dismissal.
 
Health care is already priced out of reach for the middle class!
 Who is getting this money, the pencil pushing Doctor's Administration?
 Without insurance it would be a dying business, or leave to reason, the only reason to live is to pay off the medical bills.
 Key word, business, that is what it has become! Society may be to blame?

The better doctors I have encountered, were the ones who, care and believe they can help, with their care giving, and have a high percentage of successful diagnoses and treatment, the dollar comes in second.

 The ones that only care about the all mighty dollar, should be weeded out, because that is their primary focus, and that they do more damage medically and financially, helping to drive Health Care costs up higher.

The good GP should be taken care of but without destroying the finances of their patient.

Really, this question, through the public eye, is like asking someone to shot there own foot off.
 
 


Well, if the first concern of a doctor is care of the patient and the dollar comes second, why are so many doctors leaving the general practice to go into specialities?  The pay is much better there and that leads me to believe that is their primary motivation.  Thanks for comments.  Joe L. Ogan


You are reversing my writen thought here, Joe...
Today, most Doctors are looking at the money first and the care second, human nature dictates self betterment.
It use to be and it is rarely now, care first money second.
 
Yep I agree, even the co-pay is 10 dollars more for a specialist...
I heard an expression that identifies a particular, for the profession.

When a shortage of doctors is being experienced, the admin hires a sort of fly by night fill in.
I use the expression loosely, it is a credited doctor that is looking for a temporary hire.
All they look for is a good pay and no benefits and they bounce around where they are needed.

I think the phrase I heard was "Latent Doctor".

Looking at our local Cardiac Specialized group, is experiencing a sudden shortage, a series of events, 2 retiring, a couple of them moved for better conditions and pay. Another, admin railroaded a good doctor, that did not play politics on his off time, administration hardball, in this specialist field, leaving 2 to cover the area.
If this presure builds, the individual's other alternative is to give up any ideals and go for the bucks.

I suspect, what will happen is, there may be just clinics that temporarily employ, from a Latent list of doctors. We may not see the same Doctor twice in a year; the patients will be digitized where their files are accessed from a database.

This may be a Doctor's Administration procedure, for a patient’s unpleasant fix.

Universities will be mass producing an endless stream of "idealistic student"  Doctors every year to fill this list, and they will get wise and so on and so forth.
 
AMGA servey salary grade

http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation/amga_physician_compensation_survey.htm

http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/Default.aspx?Id=553
« Last Edit: 24/09/2010 21:47:47 by tommya300 »
 

Offline JnA

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If I had spent 10-15 years studying I'd want to make as much money as I could too.

 

Offline Bored chemist

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OK, with the idea in mind that we might discus this; how much do they get paid?
Without this datum the topic is meaningless.


I note that some doctors are paid more then the Prime Minister.

(oops! typo)
« Last Edit: 25/09/2010 11:20:51 by Bored chemist »
 

Offline Variola

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OK, with the idea in mind that we might discus this; how much do they get paid?
Without this datum the topic is meaningless.


I note that some doctors are pain more then the Prime Minister.

I wish some Doctor's would give the PM some pain.....  :)

( a rare anomaly there, a typo in a BC post! :))

Yes I have heard news reports of all this money Doctor's are allegedly paid, personally if they are good Doctor's I don't have a problem with it. I doubt very much many of them went into it for the money, the sheer hard work it takes to take a medical degree, then to train after is immense and I admire anyone who has done it.
 

Offline Shibs

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Where on earth is the evidence for this statement?!

To my knowledge, obviously primary care physicians get paid far less than some investment bankers, but get paid as much as quite senior lawyers, and far more than the 'average' citizen.

For what it's worth, I don't feel that primary care medical doctors should have an overinflated opinion of their training and ability, otherwise it will undermine the reputation of the medical profession amongst the general public, possibly.
 
Please clarify.

Dr Shibley Rahman

http://shibleyrahman.com [nofollow]

@shibleylondon
 

Offline chris

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I do find it ironic when I hear a GP, who is paid, say, £90k (full time) per year to see about 40 patients during each 12h working day, is castigated as "greedy" and "overpaid", and then we hear that Wayne Rooney earns is paid about the same amount...in a WEEK!

I think we also have to remember that your average medical trainee spends twice as long at University as a normal student. They also get no holidays during the clinical training and hence there is no opportunity to work to offset debts. With fees on top of living expenses, the average medical student now qualifies with at least £50k of debt, plus interest. And once you start working, the registration and training fees continue to pile up.

In my case, I pay the GMC over £400 per year just to include my name on a register; medical insurance runs to several thousand pounds per year (more for private surgeons), the exams I am still taking - at the age of 35 - cost over £1000 per sitting, and training courses for CPD exceed £500 per day. Then, upon completion of specialist training to become a consultant, the GMC relieve you of another £1000 to rubber stamp all the paperwork and add you to the specialist register. On top of that is the subscription to your professional body - Royal College of whatever-ologists - which, at consultant level, can add another 4 figures (without the pence).

In other words, it's not cheap to work as a doctor; and despite what people may say, it's a hard job that is very emotionally demanding and punctuated by very long hours - because even though the European Working Time Directive says we knock off at 5 these days, no one does. And even once you've dealt with the last clinical case, then you take the paperwork and other stuff home with you.

There are many jobs that are equivalently demanding in terms of time and physical effort, but few where the training is so long, it's a legal requirement to work for the government for the first half of your working life, where peoples' lives hang in the balance on a daily basis and where the cost of litigation if something goes wrong routinely runs to 6 figures. In other words, it's a very responsible job and if something goes wrong the person whose name is on the line is the doctor. In all industries and sectors, this kind of responsibility is recognised financially.

In my view, having surveyed the market place, I think doctors (in the UK at least and on the Wayne Rooney scale) offer good value for money.

As an aside, my painter and decorator told me last week that, as a sole trader, he turns over about £60k per year, which is quite a bit more than many "greedy" doctors!

I'm off to find my roller and overalls...

Chris
 

Offline Geezer

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You know, I could almost swear I was hearing violins playing a melancholy tune in the background while I was reading your post Chris. That's really clever. How did you do that?

;D ;D

Just kidding! Yes, it seems to be getting harder for doctors to make an honest buck. There used to be jokes about doctors on the golf course which, a very long time ago, might have been founded in a small amount of truth, but I don't think there is any truth to it these days at all.

Mind you, the same is true in a great many professions now. I was in engineering management for years. I retired early because, quite frankly, I could no longer take the pressure of sixty plus hour weeks, interrupted weekends and evenings, and cancelled vacations. The money was great, but I came to the conclusion that there were more important things in life.
 

Offline chris

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To add some further "data" to my argument, I was watching one of those "move to the Sun" programmes the other day in which a family from the south of England were considering moving to Perth, Western Australia.

In working out the feasibility, they were discussing the financial side. The bloke - who was the breadwinner - looked after the heating thermostats at the Houses of Parliament. He was paid £40,000 for doing that.

That seems generous... and not surprisingly, I think it was tricky to find an equivalently-well paid job at the same skill-level in Australia.

Chris
« Last Edit: 05/02/2011 10:11:31 by chris »
 

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