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Author Topic: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.  (Read 7775 times)

Offline Titanscape

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If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« on: 03/02/2006 15:29:10 »
If Mars had the same mass as now, but an iron core alike the Earth's, assuming it doesn't, would it's gravity be enough to hold an atmoshere?

What do we know about Mars's core and magnetic field?

If the moon had an iron core with it's present mass, could it hold an atmoshpere, bearing in mind the solar winds?

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Offline Soul Surfer

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Re: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« Reply #1 on: 03/02/2006 16:32:12 »
gravitational force is proprtional to mass divided by the square of the radius  of an object density is mass divided by volume which is proportional to 1/cube of the radius so fpr a given mass the gravitational attraction goes up linearly as the density increases (assuming a sperical object.  The mean density of the earth is about 5.5 and that of mars about 4 so the acceleration due to gravity would go up by 5.5/4.  the acceleration due to gravity on mars is about 1/3 of that of earth now so it woulkd go up to about half of the gravity of the earth.
this would definitely improve mars ability to hold on to an atmosphere particularly considering the fact that it is significantly cooler.

Water vapour is the most difficult molecule to hang on to of nitrogen oxygen and water.  This has a molecular velocity 0.6Km/sec at NTP which would be below the escape velocity of the new mars but too close for comfort because the earth is loosing water vapour into space quite quickly.

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Offline Titanscape

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Re: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« Reply #2 on: 03/02/2006 19:48:48 »
I understood that it wasn't only gravity, but the earth's magnetic field coming from an iron core which protected the atmosphere from solar wind blowing the atmosphere away.

So we are losing water?

So Mars with the same gravity but a strong magnetic field, would it keep gases?

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Offline neilep

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Re: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« Reply #3 on: 03/02/2006 21:45:44 »
Oh...what's the term when you want to create an atmosphere on a planet ? ?..I hate it when it's on the tip of your tongue....anyway...


Ian (and everybody else of course)..do you think it's possible that Mars can be made to withstand an atmosphere that we can live in ?...Do you think it's inevetible that our future selves will have to find a way ?.....If so...care to speculate what the conditions would be like ?..ie temperature, precipitation, weather etc........holiday hotspots ?

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Offline ukmicky

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Re: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« Reply #4 on: 04/02/2006 02:35:54 »
quote:
Oh...what's the term when you want to create an atmosphere on a planet ? ?..I hate it when it's on the tip of your tongue....anyway...

Is it terraform

 
quote:
Ian (and everybody else of course)..do you think it's possible that Mars can be made to withstand an atmosphere that we can live in ?...Do you think it's inevetible that our future selves will have to find a way ?.....If so...care to speculate what the conditions would be like ?..ie temperature, precipitation, weather etc........holiday hotspots ?


No sorry neil  mars has not magnetosphere and so most of it, if we could create it,would be blown away by the solar winds

Michael                 HAPPY NEW YEAR                    
« Last Edit: 04/02/2006 02:36:18 by ukmicky »
 

Offline neilep

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Re: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« Reply #5 on: 04/02/2006 03:15:40 »
Yes !!..I beleive it is Terraform. Thanks Michael.

Do you think that if we had the technology to terraform Mars that it may also be possible to give Mars a magnetosphere too ?

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Offline Soul Surfer

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Re: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« Reply #6 on: 04/02/2006 17:30:28 »
Mars has some very deep valleys and it might in theory be possible to create enough of an atmosphere and keep it supplied fast enough to survive in but it would reqire immense resources and energy to do it.  On the whole I think it unlikely unless our survival depended on it.

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Offline neilep

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Re: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« Reply #7 on: 04/02/2006 18:17:47 »
Yep..that's what I was thinking of...eventually (assuming we have not anhiliated ourselves, or some natural catastrophe doesn't wipe is out) we'll have to escape this planet....we'll either have to find a way to transport the light years with ease or terraform each planet in turn....eventually, we'll still need to escape the solar system though.

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another_someone

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Re: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« Reply #8 on: 04/02/2006 18:46:39 »
But if we are going to go to the lengths of creating a lot of oxygen, then would not the easiest thing be to create huge transparent plastic greenhouses to live under, and then the risk of the gases escaping evaporates (don't you just love those puns).
 

Offline neilep

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Re: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« Reply #9 on: 04/02/2006 19:31:45 »
I know I'd much rather live on a planet than in a floating  greenhous enclosed biosphere, if that's what you mean.

Perhaps we can be greedy and have both :)

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another_someone

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Re: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« Reply #10 on: 04/02/2006 19:46:20 »
quote:
Originally posted by neilep

I know I'd much rather live on a planet than in a floating  greenhous enclosed biosphere, if that's what you mean.




No, I was not talking about a floating greenhouse.

I was talking about enclosing a volume of atmosphere on the surface of Mars within a greenhouse maybe 1 mile high, and 50 square miles in area.  It'd certainly keep the dust storms out.
« Last Edit: 04/02/2006 19:46:54 by another_someone »
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« Reply #11 on: 04/02/2006 20:15:26 »
quote:
It'd certainly keep the dust storms out.



but not meteorites or  solar radiation :)

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Offline Titanscape

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Re: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« Reply #12 on: 07/02/2006 12:27:02 »
If only we could transfer gas from Venus to Mars. Did you know Venus has a tail of gas? I think Venus has a magnetosphere, one day probably all the excess gas will have blown away. If nanomachines or artificially bred bacteria could be applied to Venus it could turn CO2 to O2 and C dust. And H2SO4 to H2O and O2 and S. Then it would cool down and rain. Shields could be placed in front of Venus in orbits to artificially cool it down too.

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Offline neilep

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Re: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« Reply #13 on: 07/02/2006 16:40:47 »
One thing is for sure...we are destined to leave this solar system....the far far far distant future of our species depends on it. Mars will be a natural stepping stone and will grant us an extension to our existence here.



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Offline Soul Surfer

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Re: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« Reply #14 on: 07/02/2006 22:13:41 »
If we really want to go to the stars ot will probablty best to "bioform" ourselves to the size of mice first so we dont need so much in the way of food and oxygen and are relatively a lot more robust.

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another_someone

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Re: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« Reply #15 on: 07/02/2006 23:45:25 »
quote:
Originally posted by Soul Surfer

If we really want to go to the stars ot will probablty best to "bioform" ourselves to the size of mice first so we dont need so much in the way of food and oxygen and are relatively a lot more robust.




While I can see what you are trying to do, I cannot see it would make enough difference to be worth the effort.

If we cannot exceed the speed of light, then aside from some of our closest stars, it will have to be a one way trip.

On the other hand, if we can get to a substantial proportion of the speed of light, relativistic time dilation should be enough to make our experience of the journey time acceptable.  I would think we should be able to achieve this with modest acceleration, but nonetheless enormous energy (maybe about 1 year at constant 1g acceleration).
 

Offline neilep

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Re: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« Reply #16 on: 08/02/2006 00:12:54 »
If we can never find a way to exceed the speed of light and never find a way to shortcut our route then we will have to adopt the attitude of not having to get where we are going as soon as possible....it will have to be a generational ship.....many of our descendants will be born grow and die on these ships. Likewise, we shall have to deal with the issues raised of long term life in space, the body does not like it....Gene therapy will be used, cybernetic implants and perhaps even the ability to download ourselves into robots will all be vital to our survival.

But then I also wonder that in 5 billion years when the sun expands that perhaps we would have already found a new way and new places to exist and perhaps even the technology to control the sun's demise.

Our descendants will be as alien to us as ET would be to us today.

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another_someone

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Re: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« Reply #17 on: 08/02/2006 01:07:07 »
quote:
Originally posted by neilep

If we can never find a way to exceed the speed of light and never find a way to shortcut our route then we will have to adopt the attitude of not having to get where we are going as soon as possible....it will have to be a generational ship.....many of our descendants will be born grow and die on these ships. Likewise, we shall have to deal with the issues raised of long term life in space, the body does not like it....Gene therapy will be used, cybernetic implants and perhaps even the ability to download ourselves into robots will all be vital to our survival.




That would be the advantage of a constant 1g acceleration.

Not only would it cause time dilation that would allow us to travel great distances while experiencing only limited ageing, but it would also mean that one would not have the problems of living in a weightless environment..

I could think this might be most easily achieved with some sort of nuclear fusion rocket drive, although that is one area where one could expect the greatest advances in new ideas for moving spacecraft through space.

quote:


Our descendants will be as alien to us as ET would be to us today.




But in that case, who is to say they will be our descendents maybe they will be to us as we are to dinosaurs?
 

Offline tony6789

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Re: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« Reply #18 on: 08/02/2006 14:27:18 »
gravity holds atmosphere? I thought it was a magnetic feild that held it in. the moon has some gravity but 0 atmosphere. The moon has no magnetic field= no atmosphere.

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Offline ukmicky

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Re: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« Reply #19 on: 08/02/2006 16:08:06 »
quote:
gravity holds atmosphere?
correct  

quote:
I thought it was a magnetic feild that held it .the moon has some gravity but 0 atmosphere. The moon has no magnetic field= no atmosphere.


 The magnetic field protects it from the solarwinds

Michael
« Last Edit: 08/02/2006 16:15:09 by ukmicky »
 

Offline Titanscape

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Re: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« Reply #20 on: 11/02/2006 05:52:09 »
I understood that gravity holds and atmosphere and the magnetic field protects it from solar winds and coronal mass ejections.

Example, the Earth holds no Hydrogen but Jupiter does.

So my question is, if the moon had a core of Iron as the Earth with the same 1/6th gravity, could it hold Nitrogen and Oxygen and Xenon...

And Mars, at it's greater distance from the coronal solar winds, with it's 1/3 Earth gravity, I think it has, if it had a magnetic field alike the Earth's, could it hold an atmosphere?

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Offline monolithsandsimians

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Re: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« Reply #21 on: 11/02/2006 06:58:08 »
quote:
One thing is for sure...we are destined to leave this solar system....the far far far distant future of our species depends on it.


sorry if this sounds dullwitted, but why exactly are we destined to leave? because of the eventual death of our sun, or the exhaustion of natural resources, or a combination? if its the death of our sun that would be assuming we make it that far.
 

Offline Titanscape

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Re: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« Reply #22 on: 17/03/2006 15:15:54 »
I think if Mars had a significant iron core, that it would have a magnetosphere and from the original formation and comet era, it would have retained water and gas.

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Re: If Mars Had An Iron Core..., Atmosphere.
« Reply #22 on: 17/03/2006 15:15:54 »

 

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