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Author Topic: God real or not  (Read 233835 times)

Offline ejirolove30

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #150 on: 26/05/2006 06:41:14 »
1. Does God exist?

Throughout history, in all cultures of the world, people have been convinced there is a God.
Billions of people, who represent diverse sociological, intellectual, emotional, educational makeups...believe that there is a Creator, a God to be worshipped. Now, the fact that so many people believe something certainly doesn't make it true. But when so many people through the ages are so personally convinced that God exists, can one say with absolute confidence that they are all mistaken?
"Anthropological research has indicated that among the farthest and most remote primitive people today, there is a universal belief in God. And in the earliest histories and legends of people all around the world, the original concept was of one God, who was the Creator. An original high God seems once to have been in their consciousness even in those societies which are today polytheistic.

Does God exist?

God not only has revealed Himself in what can be observed in nature and the world as kevin mentioned below, and in human life, but He has even more specifically shown Himself in the Bible.
God's thoughts, personality, and attitudes can only be known if God chooses to reveal them. All else would be human speculation. We are at a loss if God does not wish to be known. But God wants us to know Him and has told us in the Bible all we need to know about His character and how to relate to Him. This makes the reliability of the Bible an important consideration.
Archaeological findings continue to confirm rather than refute the accuracy of the Bible. For example, an archeological find in northern Israel in August 1993 confirmed the existence of King David, author of many of the Psalms in the Bible.10 The Dead Sea Scrolls and other archaeological discoveries continue to substantiate the historical accuracy of the Bible.

 The Bible was written over a 1500-year span, by 40 different authors, in different locations and on separate continents, written in three different languages, covering diverse subject matters at different points in history.11 Yet there is an astounding consistency in its message. Throughout the entire Bible the same message appears:

God created the world we live in, and created us specifically to have a relationship with Him.
He deeply loves us.
We have sinned and are under God's judgment, in need of His forgiveness.
God provided a way for our sins to be forgiven.
He asks us to receive His forgiveness and have a relationship with Him that will last eternally.
Along with this central script, the Bible specifically reveals God's character. Psalm 145 is a typical summary of God's personality, thoughts and feelings toward us. If you want to know God, here He is.

No other book on earth can make 11 correct prophecies in the space of  2000 yrs, yet the bible has over 340 prophecies that was written over 2000 yrs ago and came to pass.

 

Offline ejirolove30

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #151 on: 26/05/2006 06:44:00 »
If you truly want the answer read newbielink:http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html [nonactive]


No other book in this world can make 11 correct prophecies yet the bible  has over 340 prophecies that came to pass.
 

Offline ejirolove30

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #152 on: 26/05/2006 06:49:19 »
quote:
Originally posted by gecko

tony, i cant prove god doesnt exist anymore than you can prove he can.

 when you say something exists with no evidence whatsoever, just because of faith or belief, you can never be proven wrong. i believe theres a planet in the universe ruled by a race of skyscraper sized ants who eat nothing but pancakes. if you cant prove me wrong, than is that true?

 god is just about as likely, considering theres the same amount of proof for both. i always want to see evidence before i believe in something... for some reason objectivity and skepticism have taken a backseat to the whimsy and wonder of religion




You want to see evidence?  Look around you.  something you probally take for granted oxygen. think how plants breate in what we breathe out and produces clean air. think how the planet is position in such a way that one slight move to or from the sun can lead to destruction of planet earth.

God has left evidence all around us that He exists.  Only the fool say in his heart there is no God.
 

Offline science_guy

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #153 on: 26/05/2006 19:41:44 »
here is an example of the truth of the bible:

ask yourselves when the bible was written.  Pre columbus times, right?  

in the bible, it never suggests that the earth is flat, and even mentions that it is round.  Now we have people proving, in science, what the bible already tells us.  There is no proof, in science, that God does not exist.  The universe had a beginning, and anything that has a beginning must be created.

E=MC2... m=deg/360 X C... C= PiD

therefore E=deg/360 X 2(PiD)
 

Offline ejirolove30

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #154 on: 27/05/2006 00:25:42 »
It is a scientific fact that life can only come from pre-existant life, not from matter alone.  Therefore to trace life back to its source we must  come back to God Himself.

When you know that there is a God, now read the bible to find out if this book speaks of this God.

Read my argument above as to why the bible is the word of God.
 

Offline science_guy

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #155 on: 27/05/2006 01:15:36 »
you know, there are other topics in this forum, you dont have to post in one topic only.

Aside from that, i agree, in a scientific perspective, with everything he has said


E=MC2... m=deg/360 X C... C= PiD

therefore E=deg/360 X 2(PiD)
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #156 on: 27/05/2006 05:08:18 »
quote:
No other book on earth can make 11 correct prophecies in the space of 2000 yrs


So that one correct prophecy for every 181 years, not much luck then. How many did it get wrong? If I was to sit back and write a book I reckon I could do better especially if I had 2000 years of coincidence and luck to play with.

Also if god created us and the earth why did he wait over 4 billion years before he created us and put us on it , Did he fall asleep .

why did he create the dinosaurs first, were they more important than us.


 
quote:
You want to see evidence? Look around you. Something you probably take for granted oxygen. Think how plants breathe in what we breathe out and produces clean air.

And evolution has had 4 billion years to do it, no god required.



 
quote:
Think how the planet is position in such a way that one slight move to or from the sun can lead to destruction of planet earth.


When you consider there are over 100 billion stars in our galaxy and as far as we can tell most of them have planets around them, then the chances of at least one of them having the correct condition for life as we no it, is pretty good. A god isn’t required to position our planet where it is. A god isn’t required for a planet to have an atmosphere like ours.

 
quote:
It is a scientific fact that life can only come from pre-existent life, not from matter alone. Therefore to trace life back to its source we must come back to God Himself.


It’s a scientific fact is it, if that’s the case then show me these scientific facts.


 
quote:
in the bible, it never suggests that the earth is flat, and even mentions that it is round.


Take a look at the moon it looks round to me ,so why wouldn’t they also think the earth is  round, Something round can still be flat.


 
quote:
Now we have people proving, in science, what the bible already tells us. There is no proof in science that God does not exist.


There is also no proof in science that god does exist,the good thing about science it deals with evidence, something written in a book is proof of nothing.

 
quote:
The universe had a beginning, and anything that has a beginning must be created.



So our universe had a beginning but who is to say that our one is the only one, as far as we know there could be multiple universes ,billions of the things. also what happens to your creationist theories if our universe  started through events in one of those other universes.

If everything has to have a beginning who created god did he just pop up from nothing.

The earth has been around for over 4 billion years more than enough time for evolution to sort itself out and create what we see today.


Michael
« Last Edit: 27/05/2006 05:10:33 by ukmicky »
 

Offline ejirolove30

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #157 on: 27/05/2006 05:42:59 »
Maybe you need to take a look at nature and do a little studing.  Evolution cannot cause such order as we see today. Maybe take a look at the food chain or do a study on gravity. I guess evolution placed gravity as well.    You cannot bring God down to your state of mind and ask who created God. We are subject to time not God.
 

Offline ejirolove30

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #158 on: 27/05/2006 05:49:48 »
Also you misread my part about prophecies.  I stated that the bible has over 340 prophecies that already came to pass.  No one cannot make such accurate prophecies.   There are extensive prophecies dealing with individual nations and cities and with the course of history in general, all of which have been literally fulfilled. More than 300 prophecies were fulfilled by Christ Himself at His first coming. Other prophecies deal with the spread of Christianity, as well as various false religions, and many other subjects.

There is no other book, ancient or modern, like this. The vague, and usually erroneous, prophecies of people like Jeanne Dixon, Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, and others like them are not in the same category at all, and neither are other religious books such as the Koran, the Confucian Analects, and similar religious writings. Only the Bible manifests this remarkable prophetic evidence, and it does so on such a tremendous scale as to render completely absurd any explanation other than divine revelation.

If one will seriously investigate these Biblical evidences, he will find that their claims of divine inspiration (stated over 3,000 times, in various ways) were amply justified.

 

Offline ejirolove30

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #159 on: 27/05/2006 05:50:53 »
Another striking evidence of divine inspiration is found in the fact that many of the principles of modern science were recorded as facts of nature in the Bible long before scientist confirmed them experimentally. A sampling of these would include:

    * Roundness of the earth (Isaiah 40:22)
    * Almost infinite extent of the sidereal universe (Isaiah 55:9)
    * Law of conservation of mass and energy (II Peter 3:7)
    * Hydrologic cycle (Ecclesiastes 1:7)
    * Vast number of stars (Jeremiah 33:22)
    * Law of increasing entropy (Psalm 102:25-27)
    * Paramount importance of blood in life processes (Leviticus 17:11)
    * Atmospheric circulation (Ecclesiastes 1:6)
    * Gravitational field (Job 26:7)
    * and many others.

These are not stated in the technical jargon of modern science, of course, but in terms of the basic world of man's everyday experience; nevertheless, they are completely in accord with the most modern scientific facts.
 

Offline daveshorts

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #160 on: 27/05/2006 12:46:44 »
Have you actually looked at this stuff and more importantly thought about it critically?

For those of us who don't know the bible by reference

 (Isaiah 40:22) "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers.  He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in."

Is talking about circles not spheres. The greeks had worked out the world was a sphere by the time the bible was collated anyway.

(Isaiah 55:9)"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."

Urr so being higher than a mountain is almost infinite?

(II Peter 3:7)"But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Sounds a lot more like a threat than an exposition of E=Mc2

(Ecclesiastes 1:7) "All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again."

This is just coming from logic - the sea isn't filling up and the rivers keep running - it misses the only unobvious bit about evaporation and clouds

(Jeremiah 33:22) As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me.

Sounds like 'My god has a big army so don't mess with him' It doesn't even mention stars!!!

(Psalm 102:25-27) "
 25Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

 26They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:

 27But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.
"

Urr you will die, and old clothes wear out, sounds a bit like everyday experience to me...

(Leviticus 17:11)"For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul."

Firstly blood isn't of paramount importance to life processes, most of life gets along perfectly well without it - plants, fungi, bacteria, many simple animals. You can keep flesh alive without blood, give it some oxygen, glucose and salts, and it will get along fine.
So the only thing this is saying is that vertibrates need blood to survive - do we think this was the result of divine revalation or empirical study?

(Ecclesiastes 1:6)"The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits."

This one is better than most - but more an observation that the wind changes direction. Even if it is the modern meaning, it could be worked out by conservation of stuff, rather than a deep understanding of atmospheric circulation. The whole atmosphere runs on convection, this involves vertical winds, and surprise surprise it doesn't talk about this.

(Job 26:7)"He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing."

Urr this sounds more like a deep misunderstanding of gravity - as the earth needs hanging on something apparently gravity would be pointing in one direction.


People were no more stupid 2000 years ago than they are today, they observed stuff fairly accurately, and made theories based on it. So surprise surprise there is a lot of stuff in the bible broadly in agreement with how the world works. However none of the things you have just showed me requires any more than this!
 

Offline neilep

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #161 on: 27/05/2006 13:59:01 »
Hey Tony,

Assuming you have not poisoned yourself then it seems you might have a chance at getting this thread in the top 25 !!

Anyway, here's a nice little website filled with all types of biblical contradictions !!

http://www.evilbible.com/Biblical%20Contradictions.htm

Men are the same as women, just inside out !
 

Offline ejirolove30

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #162 on: 27/05/2006 16:50:21 »
newbielink:http://www.christiananswers.net/menu-at1.html#contradictions [nonactive]

read that to find out that there are no contradictions in the bible.

and they guy above you have read all those scriptures but yet you do not understand what I said.
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #163 on: 27/05/2006 18:55:39 »
You just dont like the scientifically proved fact that your related to a banana.:)

PS i clicked on your link and read quite a bit. The word miracle comes up quite a bit,a bit too much for my liking , its seems  a nice and easy way to get around answering a question if you ask me.

There are literary hundreds of questions which i could ask.I will start with 4 easy ones for you for.

 
How did jonah actually survived in a whales stomach for three days.

How old do you believe the earth is.

How long ago were the dinosaurs walking on the earth.

Where's all the water from the great flood in the noahs ark story gone. and dont say its now underground because your talking about enough water to cover the highest mountains.

How did noah get around to every region of the world and find every animal.

I know what is supposed to of happened to the birds but what about the bees and all the other insects.
How did noah re-populate the world, did he drop off every animal from where they came from.

what did the lions and tigers etc eat once they were freed.

What happened to all the plants and trees did noah have a seed bank or something.

why do we share a large proportion of our genetic make up with a banana or a chimp if there is no such thing as evolution.
Michael
« Last Edit: 27/05/2006 21:41:21 by ukmicky »
 

Offline GOD

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #164 on: 27/05/2006 19:54:03 »
Ooops...I forgot my 11th commadment.

Thou shalt not believe in me.

It's tough not existing !!
 

Offline ejirolove30

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #165 on: 27/05/2006 20:44:06 »
newbielink:http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-floodwater.html [nonactive]

there is your answer.
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #166 on: 27/05/2006 21:14:56 »
quote:
Originally posted by ejirolove30

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-floodwater.html

there is your answer.



No i want your answers in your own words.

if you believe in the bible you should know all the answers, after all you wouldnt believe in something you know nothing about would you.

PS ive added a few more sorry:) COME ON SHOUDNT BE HARD



Michael
« Last Edit: 27/05/2006 21:37:59 by ukmicky »
 

Offline ejirolove30

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #167 on: 27/05/2006 23:21:37 »
Are u kidding me? Why should I type whats already there?

Why are u trying to pick a fight with me? I taught this board is about sharing your opinions.
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #168 on: 27/05/2006 23:38:11 »
ejirolove30

I'm sorry if i gave you the impression that i was trying to fight with you,i just fiqured you were happy to enter into a dissusion regarding your posts.

Please enjoy the rest of the forum

Michael
 

Offline ejirolove30

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #169 on: 28/05/2006 04:25:56 »
I am more than happy but your request was very silly. You want me to give you the same answer that is listed in the site i provided. if in my own words or not, the answer is already given. if i did not know what i am talking about, that i am just coping links than all i have to do is go and read and come back and tell you what i read.
 

Offline daveshorts

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #170 on: 28/05/2006 08:53:25 »
quote:
Originally posted by ejirolove30

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-floodwater.html

there is your answer.



Ok that is a good scientific answer... so the whole of the himalayas have been formed in the last 3000 years... In fact within a couple of months, lets be really generous, give it 1000 years. Have you even thought about the consequences of this? Mountains are a bit like ice bergs, they have roots, to make the Himalayas and the tibetan plateau you have to shorten a plate by at least 1000km, that means that the plates would have to be moving a 1km/yr, only 10000 times faster than they are now!!! Ignoring all the thermal effects (doing this would probably cause all the seas to boil - sending the world into a nuclear winter) and the fact that there would be huge evidence of this, the Indians and Chinese have records going back longer than this, don't you think they might have mentioned that all their villages were getting much closer together every year!! Oh and there were at least 3 very large earthquakes a day!!!

So the earth's magnetic field must have been flipping at least once a year over this time as well in order to produce the magnetic stripes found in the seabed, oh and god must have built a huge system of pipes through the new oceanic crust in order to make it cool down that quickly (no matter how cold the surface was you can't cool something 10km thick very fast - in less than a few million years - I can show you the maths if you like) - the amount of energy released would also boil most of the seas, with immense climatic and other effects.

It is at least intelectually consistant to say God magiked it so it was as the bible says, as he doesn't have to obey the rules of nature, however then there doesn't have to be any evidence - he could have just magiked the world so it looks like the flood never happened.

Saying it is all scientific but ignoring immense amounts of scientific evidence, and not doing any trivial calculations is either lazy or intelectually dishonest.
 

Offline spud

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #171 on: 28/05/2006 10:59:56 »
It would seem pretty hypocritical to believe that everything in this universe was the product of a designer (meaning that everything in the universe is not self existent) and then believe in something that is supposedly greater than everything in the universe combined, and assume that it/he/she...whatever gender you want to give god...is self existent. Sounds pretty stupid to me.
    But don't get me wrong, i'm not an atheist to the fullest extent of the meaning of the word. I believe in the universal consiousnous of life. I believe that the universe we live in is just one of many interdimentional planes of existence. I also believe that this universe is the creation of what we ourselves think or desire it to be. In a sense, we are all god.
     In a way, it all comes down to what your personal interpretation of god is. It is different with us all. I don't think it matters what our ideas of god are, just as long as it fills that curiosity inside us, and we don't try and force these ideas on others.:D
 

Offline spud

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #172 on: 28/05/2006 11:15:43 »
[I have removed the content of this post as it was not conducive to a sensible discussion, people's ideas are fair game, but personal abuse isn't]

« Last Edit: 28/05/2006 12:42:59 by daveshorts »
 

Offline ejirolove30

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #173 on: 28/05/2006 14:53:33 »
Well here is where people make the biggest mistake.  The earth was not created 6000 yrs ago.  Humans were created 6000 yrs ago.  There is a big gap from genesis chapter 1 and gensis chapter 2.  

Remember in the bible it states that when the devil rebelled against God that he and 1/3 of the angels were cast down to the earth.  That was before Genesis chapter 2.  The bible does that state when the world was created, it said in the beginning. Could have been millions if not billions of years ago.
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #174 on: 28/05/2006 21:14:32 »
quote:
According to the Bible: Dinosaurs first existed around 6,000 years ago.5–7 God made the dinosaurs, along with the other land animals, on Day Six of the Creation Week (Gen. 1:20–25, 31).8  Adam and Eve were also made on day six—so dinosaurs lived at the same time as people, not separated by eons of time.  Dinosaurs could not have died out before people appeared, because dinosaurs had not previously existed, and death, bloodshed, disease and suffering are a result of Adam’s sin (Rom. 5:12,14, 1 Cor. 15:21–22).8
Representatives of all the kinds of air-breathing land animals, including the dinosaur kinds, went on board Noah’s Ark (see How did the animals fit on Noah's Ark?).  All those left outside the Ark died in the cataclysmic circumstances of the Flood—many of their remains became fossils.  
After the Flood (around 4,500 years ago), the remnant of the land animals, including dinosaurs, came off the Ark and lived in the present world, along with people.  Because of sin, the judgments of the Curse and the Flood have greatly changed the earth.  Post-Flood climatic change, lack of food, disease, and man’s activities caused many types of animals to become extinct.  The dinosaurs, like many other creatures, died out.  Why the big mystery about dinosaurs?. http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/Area/AnswersBook/dinosaurs19.asp


How dumb is that. They actually believe dinosaurs like T rex were walking around the earth along with his buddies 4,500 years ago at the same time as man. If that was so why are their fossils found in rock that can be scientifically proved to be 100s of millions of years old, why are there no ancient wall paintings of dinosaurs.Why is there no written record of dinosaurs.  At least evolutionists try to find scientifically provable evidence as to why there theories are correct. Creationists just point to the bible as there evidence.  a book proves nothing ,I can write a book.

My advice to everybody is to bookmark the web address below and whenever you feel depressed or in need of lift, then just click on the link and have a read.

I can guarantee you will be happy with a broad smile across your face within the first 5 minutes of reading any one of the article's in the question and answers section; most of the stuff is so hilarious you will never need your anti depressants again.

  http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp


Michael
« Last Edit: 29/05/2006 04:08:53 by ukmicky »
 

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Re: God real or not
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