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Author Topic: God real or not  (Read 233914 times)

jolly

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« Reply #375 on: 02/03/2007 19:18:48 »
Empiricists even hume believed in god.

I quote: "whatever exists must have a cause or reason of its existence.....If there be no necessarily existent being, any supposition which can be formed is equally possible....was it nothing? but that could never produce anything......there is consequently, such a being-that is, there is a deity".

I'd like to thank the academy for this award as its great; I will polish it nightly.lol
 

Offline Mjhavok

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« Reply #376 on: 02/03/2007 22:41:51 »
Huh?
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #377 on: 02/03/2007 23:02:53 »
Hume's Fork.

"When we run over libraries, persuaded of these principles, what havoc must we make? If we take in our hand any volume; of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance; let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion."

The academy may be ringing for that award back.
 

Offline Mjhavok

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« Reply #378 on: 02/03/2007 23:05:44 »
Nice quote but book burning doesn't sit well with me. Makes me think of Nazis.
« Last Edit: 02/03/2007 23:27:33 by Mjhavok »
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #379 on: 02/03/2007 23:12:10 »
I like mice also
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #380 on: 02/03/2007 23:15:40 »
Mice quote but book burning doesn't sit well with me. Makes me think of Nazis.

who burned more books the nazi's or American Secular and religious authorities?
 

Offline Mjhavok

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« Reply #381 on: 02/03/2007 23:28:32 »
I don't have a tally. Does it matter who burnt more?

Are you religious?
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #382 on: 02/03/2007 23:34:59 »
I don't have a tally. Does it matter who burnt more?

Are you religious?

Off hand i would say more books were/are burnt in america than by the nazi's. books are still being banned there, which in my opinion on much scarier.

No, i am not religious. Most of my family are catholic, but i do not personally care for any religion...and find the greeters at the entrance quite scary
 

Offline Mjhavok

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« Reply #383 on: 03/03/2007 00:47:11 »
Ok Paul. I am not from America (incase you thought I was). I myself am not religious and never was brought up so. When I was younger perhaps 10-15 I thought something perhaps god or something else existed that created the universe. I never knew then what I know now. I have listened to many arguments on both sides of this debate. My knowledge of science has also increased massively since I was 10-15 years old. At most I was a deist back then and probably heading towards pantheistic. I am now an atheist. I don't have a problem with anyone who is pantheistic. I just think that people who think human beings are the center of the universe and the universe was put here by god for us, I think these people are just deluding themselves. I think they are being egotistical and it just reeks of self importance. Knowing what I know now (which is available to anyone) I can't honestly believe in anything supernatural. I don't see any need for that as an explanation for anything and it just brings up more questions.

Reason, rationality and skepticism is the only way we can find out what is true. As much as we can know if anything is true.

Thanks
« Last Edit: 03/03/2007 00:48:49 by Mjhavok »
 

another_someone

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« Reply #384 on: 03/03/2007 02:04:06 »
Nice quote but book burning doesn't sit well with me. Makes me think of Nazis.

Book burning is as old as books themselves, going back to the first Chinese dynesty (and maybe even earlier, but they had already burnt the history books that would have recorded those book burnings).  It is a way of making sure everybody agrees with your version of history.
 

jolly

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« Reply #385 on: 03/03/2007 15:26:58 »
paul he said both so what does that say about him, he either belived one or the other, or maybe he believed both.lol
 

Offline Titanscape

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« Reply #386 on: 03/03/2007 17:09:43 »
Reason, rationality, I agree with them, but skepticism, mmm. I have some, but accepted the message of theology and the philosphy taught in school.

I had a spiritual experience too.

I think atheism advocating peoples as unimportant, and central, is dangerous.

The universe is generous and resists decay.

Matter by itself doesn't matter, except for what it is in relation to people. Hypotheticaly, Lose Mars or the Earth into the sun or a massive meteorite shower, which do you choose?

Or if you could make 500 pounds for every hectare of Amazon destroyed or 100,000 for all gone at once, knowing that after you die, the O2/CO2 equilibrium is destroyed permanently, do you take the sterling?

Some gods advocate "man should have small egos, those play things." "The stars are our home."

Jesus cross promotes that a friend is worth dying for, yet it humbled Peter after and is not ego boosting, or if it is, is that bad?

Sometimes reason needs accept revelation, reason can err. God is by nature according to the Old Greek word agape, self existently. When meeting a stranger, you need be prepared for a revelation, rather than try to reason out their values and attitudes by looking at their car and attire.

« Last Edit: 03/03/2007 17:16:42 by Titanscape »
 

Offline Mjhavok

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« Reply #387 on: 03/03/2007 17:13:08 »
You think "atheism advocating peoples as unimportant, and central, is dangerous." (which is not what I do).

Do you not think people who think they have religious absolutes are dangerous.

Your spiritual experience isn't proof I'm afraid. The mind is a powerful simulator.
 

Offline Titanscape

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« Reply #388 on: 03/03/2007 17:30:28 »
Religous absolutes, if you mean extremists, it is bad.

My spiritual experience gave me a knowing, proof for me. In turning to Jesus, response, sensing a presence so I had to kneel, and my conscience became clear. Promises of restoration...

I and many others have such experiences. 600,000,000 million charismatics today, struggling with questions or worshipping God with enthusiasm.

I never knew what I got to simulate it.

That first experience gave me like a knowing, and faith came around it like a tent around a pole.

I recall it. And other experiences and insights by others into my secret thoughts confirm and advance it.
 

Offline Mjhavok

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« Reply #389 on: 03/03/2007 17:39:00 »
I have weird experiences every night when I go to sleep. It is called dreaming. Once I had a dream that me and optimus prime where fighting the decepticons. Does this mean it was real? ofcourse not. I am just stating that your brain can simulate many things. I think if you read some neurology you would find this out .

I am sorry but I am a naturalist and people claiming to have inner revelation and personal experience of god just doesn't hold any weight for me.

Funny how you think you felt Jesus Christ and not Mohammed or Vishnu or Zeus as your inner revelation. Perhaps because you where brought up in a Christian country?
 

Offline Titanscape

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« Reply #390 on: 03/03/2007 18:52:08 »
Well, repentance and praying the Our Father, and Jesus don't let me die, are christian ideas. And that His Spirit walks into rooms... Even forgiveness and a clear conscience, and the hope of heaven and restoration.

I later tested the name Allah and called on it three times. I heard a response, such that I call on Jesus.

If I were brought up in China, what could I experience? Paul called Zeus a weak and beggarly element.

True I had no thought of anyone but the Trinity. And Mary, Catholic boy then.

That experience was objective and subjective.

But look perhaps, see if you can have an experience in alertness, of your own. Some Pentecostal preachers are dry or whacky, but some have the gift of prophecy and knowledge, ask one to lay hands on you, you may hear your secret questions revealed.
« Last Edit: 03/03/2007 18:55:37 by Titanscape »
 

Offline Mjhavok

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« Reply #391 on: 03/03/2007 18:58:28 »
But look perhaps, see if you can have an experience in alertness, of your own. Some Pentecostal preachers are dry or whacky, but some have the gift of prophecy and knowledge, ask one to lay hands on you, you may hear your secret questions revealed.

Sorry your opinion is now void. The last two sentences of your last post are crazy nonsense. That is putting it lightly.

Comments that ask me to allow a preacher to put his magic hands on me and give me answers don't belong on a science forum. Also preachers get into trouble for their magic hands.
« Last Edit: 03/03/2007 19:01:07 by Mjhavok »
 

Offline Titanscape

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« Reply #392 on: 03/03/2007 19:17:16 »
This is the "That Can't Be True" section. Many testify, so it is evidence, yet unscientific. Just suggesting testing something rather than external judgement, without a test.

What is this trouble you mention?
 

Offline Mjhavok

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« Reply #393 on: 03/03/2007 19:24:07 »
Preachers ---> Magic Hands ---> Touching people.

Work it out.
 

jolly

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« Reply #394 on: 03/03/2007 20:56:05 »
deleted as inapproprate               
« Last Edit: 06/03/2007 00:26:41 by jolly »
 

Offline Mjhavok

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« Reply #395 on: 03/03/2007 21:13:47 »
Unfortunately jolly all religious people don't share this view.
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #396 on: 03/03/2007 23:34:56 »
paul he said both so what does that say about him, he either belived one or the other, or maybe he believed both.lol

ok, he did say both, somaybe you can have that award.....just for now. like i said before if people get comfort from having religion in their life all well and good. but any topic debating if god id real or not, is in my opinion not woth having. you either believe or not..no minds are changed. not too many rational ideas put forward. they just end up as im right you are wrong
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #397 on: 04/03/2007 00:03:09 »
Jolly,

i'm not having a go but, if you could use paragrahs it would make you posts that bit easier to read. I for one, struggle to read them as the words all seem to mix together.

Thanks in advance.

 

paul.fr

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« Reply #398 on: 04/03/2007 01:20:58 »
It just occured to me, but nobody has quoted anything from south park!

The only place to truely learn about life and god, here are quotes from an episode:

Stan: “Why would God let Kenny die, Chef? Why? Kenny’s my friend. Why can’t God take someone else’s friend?”

Chef: “Stan, sometimes God takes those closest to us, because it makes him feel better about himself. He is a very vengeful God, Stan. He’s all pissed off about something we did thousands of years ago. He just can’t get over it, so he doesn’t care who he takes. Children, puppies, it don’t matter to him, so long as it makes us sad. Do you understand?”

Stan: “But then, why does God give us anything to start with?”

Chef: “Well, look at it this way: if you want to make a baby cry, first you give it a lollipop. Then you take it away. If you never give it a lollipop to begin with, then you would have nothin’ to cry about. That’s like God, who gives us life and love and help just so that he can tear it all away and make us cry, so he can drink the sweet milk of our tears. You see, it’s our tears, Stan, that give God his great power.”

Stan: “I think I understand.”
 

Offline GBSB

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« Reply #399 on: 04/03/2007 01:34:29 »

 any topic debating if god id real or not, is in my opinion not woth having. you either believe or not..no minds are changed. not too many rational ideas put forward. they just end up as im right you are wrong

I agree. I think nothing productive can come from such a discussion.

On the other side discussion about different religion and role what have religion in history and every day life could be productive only I think that is more delicate question than question about existence of God.

I'm an atheist and I thank God for it (George Bernard Shaw)
« Last Edit: 04/03/2007 01:44:43 by GBSB »
 

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