The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: Why is it that people keep making things to kill other people with?  (Read 4978 times)

Offline Airthumbs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 958
  • Personal Text
    • View Profile


 

Offline graham.d

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2208
    • View Profile
Tribalism, mutual fear, money, power, ideology - to name but a few.
 

cat_with_no_eyes

  • Guest
Why do you have a better idea of fun?
 

Offline Airthumbs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 958
  • Personal Text
    • View Profile
I wonder at what point human kind ability to use what we have learnt to make better ways of killing each other, would be deemed as evolutionary disadvantageous?  Surly the Hydrogen bomb is an example of something that should be considered this way as used all at once spells the end of us.
Also I don't think anyone could give me a reason for killing each other that does not seem childish or ridiculous.  Here are some more reasons why people kill eachother and you can make your own mind up....

1, Envy
2, Jealousy
3, Rage
4, Hatred
5, Revenge

And another reason should be, well it's been made so easy so why not?

Life is so precious, yet the same people telling us this, our Governments, are the ones making a lot of money from endorsing stuff that kills people! Will we ever grow up?  If you kill someone when you have the support of your Government you are a hero, if you don't then your a murderer! Is it not time to stop making things that kill each other?
 
 

Offline Geezer

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8328
  • "Vive la résistance!"
    • View Profile
Is it not time to stop making things that kill each other?
 

It will be, when people stop wanting to kill other people. Usually, it's not the weapons that are making the decisions.
 

Offline demografx

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8196
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile

Geezer, brilliantly stated! 105% agreed.
 

Offline Variola

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1063
  • Everyone should beware of The Pox...
    • View Profile
Unfortunately, it seems that it is part of human nature for some to want to be extremely crappy towards each other, be it through war or shouting abuse at another across the street. It has been the same throughout history, and has been subject to much psychological research and interest.
 

Offline demografx

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8196
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile

Variola, you are absolutely right, and it sometimes makes me ashamed to be a member of this planet.
 

Offline Airthumbs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 958
  • Personal Text
    • View Profile
I have written several responses to the above posts, I ended up deleting them all as they seem to convey what I believe you already know.  Demografx, definitely ashamed as I share the same view. [V]

I think Geezer summed it up really but I still can't help feeling that giving someone something that is designed to kill another human is ridiculous and should be stopped.

Some people want to set fire to everything, do we give them flame-throwers? Unfortunately if there was money to be made out of this I am sure we would!!  :-\
« Last Edit: 31/12/2010 02:37:53 by Aaron Thomas »
 

Offline Geezer

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8328
  • "Vive la résistance!"
    • View Profile
You are in good company.

"And man, whose heav'n-erected face
The smiles of love adorn, -
Man's inhumanity to man
Makes countless thousands mourn!


from http://www.robertburns.org/works/55.shtml

BTW, as we are singing "Auld Lang Syne" tomorrow night, we might remember that this is the gent that brought it to us.


EDIT: If anyone does not understand what Burns was getting at here, I have some ideas that might help.

« Last Edit: 31/12/2010 07:09:27 by Geezer »
 

Offline Airthumbs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 958
  • Personal Text
    • View Profile
Geezer, I read the whole poem and think it is just fantastic however, does it answer the question?  I can empathise totally with the writer but wonder if he was rather addressing a problem that most of us know exists. 

The real problem as I see it is that mankind has got used to the idea that it seems to be ok to make things that kill people.

How many 10-15 yr olds do you see running about with automatic weapons in warzones!  I would like to see one of them try to kill someone with their bare hands and see how effective they would be at it, as most of them look like they could just about lift the guns they are wielding!
 

Offline CliffordK

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6321
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • Site Moderator
    • View Profile
It is a complicated issue.
There certainly is a lot of money in government military contracts.
And, for the people in a war-zone, it is "to kill, or to be killed" & it is always best to be the one carrying the bigger stick.

However, perhaps it is best to leave the sticks home, and head down to the local bar or pub with the "enemy" and have a good beer.

I've talked to people from around the world.  I had a Palestinian friend in college...  But she was just an ordinary person studying just like I was. 
The Russians I've met had more of a curiosity of Americans than a hatred for us. 
I had some good conversations with Muslims in Egypt.

Truthfully, in the world, most people are quite peaceful.
There are a few "radicals".
And a lot of "lemmings"... just following along.
 

Offline Airthumbs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 958
  • Personal Text
    • View Profile
I am currently running a hotel in Luxembourg on a voluntary basis for asylum seekers to this country, everyday I speak with people from Iraq, Algeria, Morocco, Tanzanier, Guinea, Liberia and others.  Most of these people seem very ordinary and I am sure they are.  A lot of them have very strong feelings about religion but tend to behave in a friendly way.  You have to be pretty sensitive to their needs and I enjoy a good conversation with them about religion.

Having said that I sometimes wonder what would happen If I was in their country and they had a weapon and we had the same comversation about religion  :o

And thats another reason to get rid of things that kill people  ;D
« Last Edit: 03/01/2011 21:20:15 by Airthumbs »
 

Online yor_on

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 11987
  • Thanked: 4 times
  • (Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
    • View Profile

I think Geezer summed it up really but I still can't help feeling that giving someone something that is designed to kill another human is ridiculous and should be stopped.


AirThumbs :)

You have two choices, either you work from what is, or you expect us to change,  by laying down our arms. Me, I expect us to be much the same, any which way. One of the really big things moving the world forward is big egos, with the rest of the flock herd-instinct making them follow. But that can go both ways, towards bad choices, as well as good. If you ask me I'm feed up with the egos today, to materialistic and short sighted by far. That didn't hurt as much before, but our world and its resources are shrinking daily, and a big ego today can hurt our planet irrevocably. Then we have all the small decision we make daily, like how we take care of our trash, what we eat, who we will trust, and of course what our own egos tell us.

There's three kinds out there. Those that think they know, and those will be the ones propelled by their sense of justice, or greed and avarice, or beliefs in that a world without arms naturally will be a world driven by human kindness, but, always driven by their egos.

Then we have those all to glad to make no decisions at all, looking at what suits their own egos they will hang on to what they think will propel them to whatever their little hearts desire. Mostly those ones are materialistic, looking to short term wish fulfillments. Some are just plain lazy :) not meaning that they won't do a honest days work, but satisfied with arranging their own lives, not wanting to be bothered.

Then we have those that do see, and find all decisions unclear, all having their own perils. Those ones are the ones that will react when you get hit, maybe not the ones instinctively rushing to your side as that will be the ones driven by their 'egos' belief in justice, but the ones that in the long run will tip the balance towards it. The problem with those is that they neither are driven by blind ego, nor able to act from it as they find reality being a place of doubt primarily. But they are also the ones I hope will make this a better place in the long run.

Because, all arms to the side. We have made progress, and hopefully we will keep on doing so. And to give up your arms is a invite to disaster in a world like this, driven by egos. So we need them as far as I can see, most massacres comes from the imbalance of arms in that particular situation, and those doing it is your neighbors. And those unwilling to face up to that fact will never start to question themselves.
==

Don't mistake this as a defense for everyone being armed. That one is not that good a solution as it invite to 'permanent solutions' based on fear, or greed, or just plain ego. I'm talking every nations right to sovereignty, and its own defense. Not driving around in your town holding a bazooka, 'just in case'.
« Last Edit: 11/02/2011 19:28:29 by yor_on »
 

Offline Airthumbs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 958
  • Personal Text
    • View Profile
I think you make an excellent argument for the removal of weapons worldwide.  You state that most massacres occur due to an imbalance of weapons. 
There will always be egotistical people running the world, it's the nature of the gene! 

It's absurd when you think that these objects are used to communicate with each other from a global scale all the way down to a very local level.

All that money!  How much accumulated money has been spent on conflict.  Where would we be now if that money had been used a little bit more wisely?

No borders, no famine, no starvation, no pollution, a one world sustainable economy, complete freedom of movement, peaceful freedom of religious expression (as it was intended)! no wars, no need! No weapons, no need! 

I think some people do realise that it's the want for more things in a capitalist market that has got us into most trouble. That greed requires the use of weapons made to kill people at it's most resourceful, how else do you extract another countries recourses without their consent....

By the way "Laying down your arms" sounds so drastic!  I think that is misinterpreted, it paints this picture of all these armless people walking around, kind of dumbfounded expression as they realise they are totally helpless without arms!





 

Online yor_on

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 11987
  • Thanked: 4 times
  • (Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
    • View Profile
Well. If nobody had guns they would use clubs, don't you think?

I reckon that's what we started with :) then we got bored and tried to invent something more efficient. It's a sad thing, but you won't be able to regulate it AT. People are what they are, not saints. But information and knowledge are strong changers of thoughts. That's what I think, and hope, at least, and any real change need to come from within to stay.

As it is we need a defense, all countries do. And it better be your own, trusting to others benevolence has a tendency to end in disaster. Sweden have a defense that works, and we've been in peace for over two hundred years now. Some take this peace for something that just dropped down from the sky, and as a proof for us not needing any defense, but without it I think we could have kissed those two hundred years goodbye long ago :) Ending with society needing to rebuild again, and the same weapon industry we already have.

It's very few that really want to see their country in a real war, but without a working defense the chances for it grows steep. And for a credible neutrality you need your own arms, not someone else's. The day we all stop arguing, nobody has a meltdown and tries to kill someone, and we all are at peace.. Yep, that should be the grave :)

Education, learning how to think by your self, and daring to listen to your heart, that's what makes a difference for real. Some of the worst massacres known in Africa, those countries choose not to stigmatize those doing the killing but instead forgive and educate. And with the growing number of child soldiers that is a very wise policy, everyone can kill, it all depends on circumstances, but to think on your own? Few that manage that, but learning makes it easier.
« Last Edit: 12/02/2011 01:34:35 by yor_on »
 

The Naked Scientists Forum


 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
 
Login
Login with username, password and session length