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Author Topic: What is the Dirac equation?  (Read 17651 times)

Offline Foolosophy

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What is the Dirac equation?
« Reply #25 on: 02/01/2011 11:45:36 »
Mathematics is not dilusional; it's logical.

Mathematics is an abstract philosophy that is based on idealised axioms that require spiritual faith to maintain their apparent immutability.

(For example its a mistake to lump numeracy and mathematics into the same basket. Only one of these is abstract)
« Last Edit: 02/01/2011 11:53:57 by Foolosophy »
 

Offline lightarrow

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What is the Dirac equation?
« Reply #26 on: 02/01/2011 13:01:40 »
Mathematics is not dilusional; it's logical.

Mathematics is an abstract philosophy that is based on idealised axioms that require spiritual faith to maintain their apparent immutability.

(For example its a mistake to lump numeracy and mathematics into the same basket. Only one of these is abstract)
It's not clear to me what you mean with your statement. Can you make a better example? Because there isn't, IMHO, so much difference with physics: physics too must have theories based on postulates (and definitions); you can't make a single statement without them.
 

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Offline Foolosophy

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What is the Dirac equation?
« Reply #27 on: 02/01/2011 13:35:27 »
Shrunk
Mathematics is not dilusional; it's logical.

Mathematics is an abstract philosophy that is based on idealised axioms that require spiritual faith to maintain their apparent immutability.

(For example its a mistake to lump numeracy and mathematics into the same basket. Only one of these is abstract)
It's not clear to me what you mean with your statement. Can you make a better example? Because there isn't, IMHO, so much difference with physics: physics too must have theories based on postulates (and definitions); you can't make a single statement without them.

I have no intention of providing you with a clearer picture of what I mean when the very comments that I post here are based on chaotic randomness.

I stongly suggest that you treat my comments with immense caution and logical contempt.

On the other hand you may be a student of comedy so keep going.

Regards

Foolosophy (circa 2011)
 

Offline QuantumClue

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What is the Dirac equation?
« Reply #28 on: 10/01/2011 22:24:38 »
Did anyone have any other ideas for any more writeups... I was thinking about doing one now on the Klein-Gordon equation.
 

Offline JP

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What is the Dirac equation?
« Reply #29 on: 11/01/2011 02:24:38 »
Relativistic equations are cool, but I don't think most posters here have the mathematical foundations to actually understand them.  Maybe a brief survey of waves building up to the Schrodinger equation would be more accessible?  There's enough interesting stuff in the Schrodinger equation alone that I'm sure people would love to have explained in lay-terms, especially wave/particle duality and the classical limit.
 

Offline Foolosophy

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What is the Dirac equation?
« Reply #30 on: 11/01/2011 05:55:03 »
Mathematics is not dilusional; it's logical.

Mathematics is an abstract philosophy that is based on idealised axioms that require spiritual faith to maintain their apparent immutability.

(For example its a mistake to lump numeracy and mathematics into the same basket. Only one of these is abstract)
It's not clear to me what you mean with your statement. Can you make a better example? Because there isn't, IMHO, so much difference with physics: physics too must have theories based on postulates (and definitions); you can't make a single statement without them.

String Therory is a good example of this

ST is a mathematical philosophy. At this point you cant validate the theory via experimentation or observation.

Any theory that is PURELY based on mathematical axioms and cannot be verfied by observation and/or expermetation, is simply a philosophy - a Religious doctrine

This is not to say that this theory will not turn out to be validated in some way and/or prove to be a very useful predictive tool.

Quantum Mechanics is another very good example of a THeory that makes accurate predictions and can be supported by experiment and observations BUT in essence is a collection of insane probability functions that have been arrogantly applied to the microscopic world by its high priests because they are not clever enough at this time to think of a deterministic theory
« Last Edit: 11/01/2011 06:03:02 by Foolosophy »
 

Offline Foolosophy

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What is the Dirac equation?
« Reply #31 on: 11/01/2011 06:06:47 »
Did anyone have any other ideas for any more writeups... I was thinking about doing one now on the Klein-Gordon equation.

Why does everyone always seem to forget poor old Fock?

Relativising the Schroedinger nuerotic equation will noit save the dying Quantum Mechanical train wreck
 

Offline JP

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What is the Dirac equation?
« Reply #32 on: 11/01/2011 06:09:45 »
Quantum Mechanics is another very good example of a THeory that makes accurate predictions and can be supported by experiment and observations BUT in essence is a collection of insane probability functions that have been arrogantly applied to the microscopic world by its high priests because they are not clever enough at this time to think of a deterministic theory
[Emphasis mine]

Foolosophy,

You're railing against quantum mechanics a lot, which is fine, but your arguments against it make it clear that you don't understand how it's formulated, that you're basing your arguments on emotion and that you have some grudge against those who don't agree with your views.  Do you have any scientific reasoning behind your grudge against QM?
 

Offline Foolosophy

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« Reply #33 on: 11/01/2011 06:15:53 »
Quantum Mechanics is another very good example of a THeory that makes accurate predictions and can be supported by experiment and observations BUT in essence is a collection of insane probability functions that have been arrogantly applied to the microscopic world by its high priests because they are not clever enough at this time to think of a deterministic theory
[Emphasis mine]

Foolosophy,

You're railing against quantum mechanics a lot, which is fine, but your arguments against it make it clear that you don't understand how it's formulated, that you're basing your arguments on emotion and that you have some grudge against those who don't agree with your views.  Do you have any scientific reasoning behind your grudge against QM?

I am not against QM - I actually use many aspects of this theory in my professional work.

I just see the writing on the wall for this stochastic approach.

Quantum physicists will be laughed at in the future - not for the using the theory to make devies and predictions, but for actually taking its nuerotic conclusions literally and believing in them to be real.

(remember an electron is in ALL locations at the same time as it whirls around the nucleus of an atom - literally -lol)

« Last Edit: 11/01/2011 06:17:45 by Foolosophy »
 

Offline JP

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« Reply #34 on: 11/01/2011 06:19:41 »
If you don't have a scientific reason for disliking it, that doesn't leave much to discuss on a science forum.
 

Offline Foolosophy

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What is the Dirac equation?
« Reply #35 on: 11/01/2011 07:33:44 »
If you don't have a scientific reason for disliking it, that doesn't leave much to discuss on a science forum.

I dont dislike Quantum Mechanics - I feel it's the most atonishing intellectual accomplishment by humans purely based on its literal interpretations of the quantum world.

The problem is its conclusions are based upon stochastic theory - which is non-determinisitic in nature. And for this it will pay the ultimate price of self destruction. If humans are clever enough they will replace QED with a more deterministic theory that can have its assumptious tested and validated in rationale way
 

Offline lightarrow

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« Reply #36 on: 11/01/2011 12:45:57 »
String Therory is a good example of this.
ST is a mathematical philosophy. At this point you cant validate the theory via experimentation or observation.
String theory is not a "proper" physics theory, yet.

Quote
Any theory that is PURELY based on mathematical axioms and cannot be verified by observation and/or experimentation, is simply a philosophy - a Religious doctrine
If it wants to be a physical theory, yes. If it wants to be a mathematical theory it's another story.

Quote
Quantum Mechanics is another very good example of a Theory that makes accurate predictions and can be supported by experiment and observations BUT in essence is a collection of insane probability functions that have been arrogantly applied to the microscopic world by its high priests because they are not clever enough at this time to think of a deterministic theory
No, it's simply because "the world" IS NOT deterministic.
 

Offline Foolosophy

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What is the Dirac equation?
« Reply #37 on: 11/01/2011 13:09:19 »
String Therory is a good example of this.
ST is a mathematical philosophy. At this point you cant validate the theory via experimentation or observation.
String theory is not a "proper" physics theory, yet.

Quote
Any theory that is PURELY based on mathematical axioms and cannot be verified by observation and/or experimentation, is simply a philosophy - a Religious doctrine
If it wants to be a physical theory, yes. If it wants to be a mathematical theory it's another story.

Quote
Quantum Mechanics is another very good example of a Theory that makes accurate predictions and can be supported by experiment and observations BUT in essence is a collection of insane probability functions that have been arrogantly applied to the microscopic world by its high priests because they are not clever enough at this time to think of a deterministic theory
No, it's simply because "the world" IS NOT deterministic.

(ST is not a proper physics theory yet because it's a Mathematical Philosophy that has no supproting evidence)

Perhaps you claim that the world is non deterministic because of your literal interpretation of the conclusions that QED generates?

When did the world become NON deterministic in your view?

What do you mean by world?

Are you able to show or prove how the Universe is intinsically non-deterministic?

Is this assumption based upon the nuerosis or uncertainty spewed out by stochastic based theories OR some sort of Universal principle or immutable axiom hidden in the ancient books of Hades?
 

Offline QuantumClue

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« Reply #38 on: 11/01/2011 15:23:04 »
JP

Schrodinger equation is it.
 

Offline lightarrow

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« Reply #39 on: 11/01/2011 18:33:49 »
Perhaps you claim that the world is non deterministic because of your literal interpretation of the conclusions that QED generates?
Even, but not only for this. The determinism we are discussing here is related, for example, to the fact that a quantum system as an elementary particle had an exact position in space before being measured. Do you agree with it?
Now take a truncated sinusoidal EM wave 1km long and tell me what you would take as exact position of that wave. The point it begins? Or where it finishes? Somewhere in the middle?
Consider that such a truncated train of em waves could represent a physical single photon.
 

Offline QuantumClue

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« Reply #40 on: 11/01/2011 19:08:54 »
Just making a reference for myself with these symbols, ignore me

▲ ▼ h
 

Offline yor_on

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« Reply #41 on: 12/01/2011 05:37:40 »
:)

Ah yes, it's best to treat it as a game, with quite interesting 'rules'. If I started to put all that I believe into a practical setting I would look at every piece of matter with the highest suspicion, whispering. "So you think you can fool me huh?" And also carry a scuba tube. Just in case all that oxygen would get it into its 'mind' to move to some corner.
 

Offline Foolosophy

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« Reply #42 on: 12/01/2011 06:37:04 »
Perhaps you claim that the world is non deterministic because of your literal interpretation of the conclusions that QED generates?
Even, but not only for this. The determinism we are discussing here is related, for example, to the fact that a quantum system as an elementary particle had an exact position in space before being measured. Do you agree with it?


This is precisely the Quantum point and only half the Heisenberg story.

You may well claim that an elementary particle has an exact position before being measured, but the Heisenberg uncertainty principle dictates that if you know a particles position with infinite accuracy then its velocity can NEVER be known or measured.

Can you extract these nuerotic conclusions from the insane stochastic based quantum depiction of the atomic world and apply them to the real world of flesh and bones, stars and planets, galaxies and nebulae??

Why not?

Are both inadeqaute at this point of time>?
 

Offline Foolosophy

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What is the Dirac equation?
« Reply #43 on: 12/01/2011 06:45:22 »
If you don't have a scientific reason for disliking it, that doesn't leave much to discuss on a science forum.

I said that I dont dislike QM - I use it often in my professional work environment.

I have philosophical and logical objections to the stochastic nature of QM and its reliance on nuerotic probability functions.

This objection does not dismiss some of the predictive powers of QM and its practical applications.

In my opinion QM is stochastic empiricism in its extreme form. Its predictive power comes from the probability functions pertaining to populations.

Once you isolate an individual in that population sample and try to make specific predictions relating to what that individual (particle) will do at some future time, you get non sensical uncertainty.

This is why Quantum physicsts have a faith that the atomic world is non deterministic.

there is absolutely no basis in making this assumption - in theory or practise

(apart from ignorant arrogance - a very common human trait seen throughout history)
« Last Edit: 12/01/2011 07:07:34 by Foolosophy »
 

Offline JP

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What is the Dirac equation?
« Reply #44 on: 12/01/2011 06:47:32 »
If you don't have a scientific reason for disliking it, that doesn't leave much to discuss on a science forum.

I said that I dont dislike QM - I use it often in my professional work environment.


Out of curiosity, what work do you do that you use QM often?
 

Offline Foolosophy

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What is the Dirac equation?
« Reply #45 on: 12/01/2011 07:08:37 »
If you don't have a scientific reason for disliking it, that doesn't leave much to discuss on a science forum.

I said that I dont dislike QM - I use it often in my professional work environment.


Out of curiosity, what work do you do that you use QM often?

Why the sudden interest in how my pay is generated?
« Last Edit: 12/01/2011 07:10:18 by Foolosophy »
 

Offline JP

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What is the Dirac equation?
« Reply #46 on: 12/01/2011 08:16:11 »
If you don't have a scientific reason for disliking it, that doesn't leave much to discuss on a science forum.

I said that I dont dislike QM - I use it often in my professional work environment.


Out of curiosity, what work do you do that you use QM often?

Why the sudden interest in how my pay is generated?

I'm curious about what kind of work you do that uses QM regularly in their work, since I'm a trained physicist and find it fascinating. It's rare to find anyone who uses QM outside of academia, so when you brought it up, it piqued my curiosity.  If you'd rather not talk about it, that's fine.
 

Offline lightarrow

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« Reply #47 on: 12/01/2011 19:11:34 »
The determinism we are discussing here is related, for example, to the fact that a quantum system as an elementary particle had an exact position in space before being measured. Do you agree with it?

This is precisely the Quantum point and only half the Heisenberg story.

You may well claim that an elementary particle has an exact position before being measured, but the Heisenberg uncertainty principle dictates that if you know a particles position with infinite accuracy then its velocity can NEVER be known or measured.

Can you extract these nuerotic conclusions from the insane stochastic based quantum depiction of the atomic world and apply them to the real world of flesh and bones, stars and planets, galaxies and nebulae??
One of the main differences between a quantistic system and a classical one (usually the first are microscopic and the second macroscopic, but not always) is that in quantum systems some coherence is preserved, while in the classical ones is lost, so, for example, you can't have, in the last case, a train of waves with so much indetermination in position.
 

Offline QuantumClue

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« Reply #48 on: 12/01/2011 19:25:34 »
Foolosophy,

Promise me you won't raid my page like you did with this.
 

Offline yor_on

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« Reply #49 on: 13/01/2011 03:50:54 »
I see it as true that if we discuss individual objects they become more indeterminate the smaller we make them. And then when looking at it macroscopically becomes more 'deterministic', But it all depend on how you look. For example, although we can define a trajectory to high precision we can not define where a planets exact location will be over a extended time period. It becomes indeterministic too.

I think at those kind of things as 'emergences' myself, defining different 'properties' depending on from 'where' you choose to look at it?
==

Well, I'm not sure when it comes to planets position as seen over a longer time period, but when it comes to QM contra Macroscopic I look at it that way. It depends on how to view time the one with 'positions' I guess?
« Last Edit: 13/01/2011 04:00:08 by yor_on »
 

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