The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: The Moscow 2011 incident  (Read 15584 times)

Offline QuantumClue

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
    • View Profile
« Last Edit: 17/01/2011 12:42:31 by BenV »


 

Post by QuantumClue click to view.

Offline QuantumClue

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
    • View Profile
Re: The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #1 on: 17/01/2011 01:12:08 »
Shrunk
Emmm... I pressed two by accident. Could a mod please alter the headline! thanks
 

Offline CliffordK

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6321
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • Site Moderator
    • View Profile
Re: The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #2 on: 17/01/2011 02:57:51 »
This photo of Moscow has hit the news media recently.



The photo is apparently real, undoctored, and a photo of the SKY.

Geezer...
What do you think?
Aliens Landing?
 

Offline CliffordK

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6321
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • Site Moderator
    • View Profile
Re: The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #3 on: 17/01/2011 03:12:08 »
When Aliens Attack?



I think this one is from Sacramento, California.
« Last Edit: 17/01/2011 03:34:01 by CliffordK »
 

Offline QuantumClue

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
    • View Profile
Re: The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #4 on: 17/01/2011 03:45:49 »
The day a disclosure on UFO's happen will be the day many rational people will be left looking like idiots. The proponents of UFO's of ET origin do not worry if such a disclosure states that ET does not exist, looking like idiots for their beliefs have become a lifestyle.
 

Offline CliffordK

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6321
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • Site Moderator
    • View Profile
Re: The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #5 on: 17/01/2011 04:26:33 »
As far as the first You-Tube video.  I was going to say Venus interacting with fog or clouds.  However, it does seem to progress relatively quickly, although time is hard to determine.  So, that would put it as perhaps an airplane which would also be consistent with what appears to be blinking lights, but are probably just the normal lights at a distance that is too far for one to really distinguish the different wings.

The Spanish Film.
I'm a bit mixed on the explanation.  At first it looked like a fixed light and some strange interaction in the clouds, sky.
However...  my vote goes with a Russian Missile Attack.

I'd encourage you to lock yourself in a concrete bunker for the next few months!!!!

Note, at the end of the film, they jump to a Ferris-Wheel footage.  This appears to be completely unrelated, and reminds me of a "fake UFO" that was down in Mexico a while ago.  Or, it could, in fact be a Ferris Wheel.
 

Post by Geezer click to view.

Offline Geezer

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8328
  • "Vive la résistance!"
    • View Profile
Re: The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #6 on: 17/01/2011 06:47:36 »
Shrunk
Emmm... I pressed two by accident. Could a mod please alter the headline! thanks

You should be able to modify it by editing the original post.
 

Post by JP click to view.

Offline JP

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3366
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #7 on: 17/01/2011 07:18:46 »
Shrunk
I cleaned up the Sacramento image a little bit and got some interesting results...


« Last Edit: 17/01/2011 11:16:11 by JP »
 

Offline peppercorn

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1466
    • View Profile
    • solar
The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #8 on: 17/01/2011 13:12:02 »
LOL! Nice, erm investigation there JP!


The day a disclosure on UFO's happen will be the day many rational people will be left looking like idiots.

On the contrary, how can rationally weighing-up evidence that turns out to have been utterly misleading when a completely unpredictable explanation comes to light make a person look like an idiot?
If it suddenly became indisputable that fairies lived at the bottom of our gardens -hidden from view, I don't think any rational person would feel idiotic for doubting their existence up to that point.
 

Offline QuantumClue

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
    • View Profile
The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #9 on: 17/01/2011 14:17:55 »
LOL! Nice, erm investigation there JP!


The day a disclosure on UFO's happen will be the day many rational people will be left looking like idiots.

On the contrary, how can rationally weighing-up evidence that turns out to have been utterly misleading when a completely unpredictable explanation comes to light make a person look like an idiot?
If it suddenly became indisputable that fairies lived at the bottom of our gardens -hidden from view, I don't think any rational person would feel idiotic for doubting their existence up to that point.

How about the fact that these rational people, use irrational and blatent foolmaking cartoons? I appreciate you don't take this seriously, or anyone else for that matter. But making fun out of the people that do, will when a disclosure happens, if it happens, will turn the fun making on those who did not believe.
 

Offline JP

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3366
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #10 on: 17/01/2011 15:26:33 »
I was poking fun at Geezer (see his avatar and the post I linked), but I'll shrink my post if it offends you.

I have nothing against your belief in UFOs.  I have no doubt that you'll be laughing at us if aliens turn out to be visiting the earth after all.  I'm not particularly worried about that. 
« Last Edit: 17/01/2011 15:37:33 by JP »
 

Offline Geezer

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8328
  • "Vive la résistance!"
    • View Profile
The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #11 on: 17/01/2011 19:03:13 »
I seem to remember seeing the Moscow thingy in the news late last year.
 

Offline CliffordK

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6321
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • Site Moderator
    • View Profile
The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #12 on: 17/01/2011 22:11:45 »
The problem with many of the "UFO" stuff is that it is often taken very much out of context.  And, it truly may be a "UFO" to the person taking the photo.  But, they may also attempt to play with the light a little...  just for effect, as in the one photo capturing the sunlight just right.

I was hoping for some bites on the clouds.  There is a discussion of "Hole Punch" clouds.  There seems to be two causes.  An accidental cause from aircraft passing over or through the clouds causing an interaction of their exhaust with the clouds, or deliberate seeding.

The Sacramento cloud is somewhat of a "classic" shape, in some photos of the event, you will see a cone below the cloud.  Someone managed to catch the sun just right to give an out of this world effect. 

The Moscow cloud is a bit more unique.  However, apparently the Russian government was experimenting with Cloud Seeding which can also cause a similar effect.  Again, the sun must have caught it just right to give it an out of the world effect.  Assuming it is actually seeding, it is possible that the plane had flown in a roughly circular pattern.  However, here is a similar photo from Colorado showing the same phenomenon with a similar 3-D effect.

http://www.meteorologynews.com/2009/10/12/hole-punch-cloud-not-ufo-spotted-over-moscow/

So.
That gets us back to the original two films.

The YouTube film of the dot, somewhat blinking in the sky.  It looses resolution when zoomed in and becomes badly pixelated.  Some odd artifacts show up when zooming.  I assume these are showing up in the film editing room.  I suppose that is common with UFO films, in part because any closer and they could be easily identified.  I had originally thought it was being viewed at a fixed point, then it seemed to move, although the camera movies a lot too, so it is possible the viewpoint moved.  If it was a fixed point, then it could be Venus poking through the clouds, or perhaps a prominent light on a tower.  However, if it is actually moving, then the likely conclusion was viewing running lights on an airplane, with all colors tending to blend into one in the distance.

The Spanish film.
Some people suggested a hologram effect.  The film seems to end with a pin-hole light.  So, the light could be causing the ray effect, or could be what is being photographed.  Unfortunately I'm not very good with my Spanish so I can only pick up half the words.  It does appear to be trailing 3 jet streams.  And, does seem to be moving (although the camera also moves and rotates).  As I mentioned earlier, it could well be a rocket of some sort.  The Shuttles all use 3 primary rockets.  I don't know the actual takeoff angles.  If this film was taken in Florida, I wouldn't think twice about it.  More data of when and where it is taken, and information about surrounding airports, and how the Russians deal with space programs & experimental aircraft would be helpful.  It just doesn't have an out of this world look.  And, the final ferris-wheel image in the Spanish film has jumped cities, I'm not quite sure where to.  But, it looks obviously man-made, perhaps a Christmas Ornament.  Perhaps something on a hillside in the distance.

Why don't people take them seriously?

First of all, UFO doesn't mean alien from space.  It merely means something that hasn't been identified yet, usually due to a lack of information, either unknown to the camera man, or something that they knew, but manipulated for effect. 

And, while the number of inhabited planets in the Universe may be high...  at least a few???  If we have no conceivable method to get to them, there is no reason to think they can get here.  And, if they would arrive, that they would just be buzzing over our capital cities without any additional identifying information.  The "saucer" has entered popular culture so much, but I have no doubt that it would be some other shape.  Or, perhaps would have a conical component that is in space, and a more traditional atmospheric component that lands on earth.
 

Offline QuantumClue

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
    • View Profile
The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #13 on: 18/01/2011 00:44:03 »
No one has even questioned why these lights over moscow where allowed to do what they did. If that was a Federal state, those things would have been chased by the Airforce.
 

Offline CliffordK

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6321
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • Site Moderator
    • View Profile
The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #14 on: 18/01/2011 02:16:58 »
No one has even questioned why these lights over moscow where allowed to do what they did. If that was a Federal state, those things would have been chased by the Airforce.

Unless they were caused by the Airforce, in which case, Russia has a tendency to be a bit more quiet about the things.

Of course, in the height of the Cold War, someone did manage to land a Cessna in the middle of Red Square.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust
 

Offline imatfaal

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2787
  • rouge moderator
    • View Profile
The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #15 on: 18/01/2011 12:01:24 »
QC - not sure what the distinction means when you say "if that was a federal stated" - Russia is technically the Russian Federation and is a presidential/semi-presidential federal republic (even if some diplomats describe it as a mafia state).  The Russian Airforce, although a bit clunky and much smaller than during the cold war is still around - five minutes is just not enough time to get fighters airborne and over large cities (unless they are already on maximum alert). 

I live in an areas that constantly has planes over head and I have never seen the lights merge to form a single red blob - so I am not convinced on that explanation.  But then London doesn't have the same atmospheric conditions as Moscow in December.
 

Offline CliffordK

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6321
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • Site Moderator
    • View Profile
The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #16 on: 18/01/2011 12:54:16 »
I live in an areas that constantly has planes over head and I have never seen the lights merge to form a single red blob - so I am not convinced on that explanation.  But then London doesn't have the same atmospheric conditions as Moscow in December.

I'll have to keep my eye out for distant aircraft and take some photos...
Maybe I've just been seeing aliens all this time  [xx(]
 

Offline QuantumClue

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
    • View Profile
The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #17 on: 18/01/2011 21:36:11 »
QC - not sure what the distinction means when you say "if that was a federal stated" - Russia is technically the Russian Federation and is a presidential/semi-presidential federal republic (even if some diplomats describe it as a mafia state).  The Russian Airforce, although a bit clunky and much smaller than during the cold war is still around - five minutes is just not enough time to get fighters airborne and over large cities (unless they are already on maximum alert). 

I live in an areas that constantly has planes over head and I have never seen the lights merge to form a single red blob - so I am not convinced on that explanation.  But then London doesn't have the same atmospheric conditions as Moscow in December.

I meant an American Federal State.

Now, on the issue of their being no Aiforce deployed on the display of these most unusual lights, it leads me to believe that there is a possibility that the Russian Governement could be in cahoots with the intelligence behind the lights. The most probable scenario is that the Russian Gov where in fact behind the lights themselves, however, in light of knowing how serious the Russians take the UFO phenomenon, being responsible for one of the longest standing reports on the phenomenon might indicate, that the character of the Russian Gov does not fit into the criteria of hoaxes.
 

Offline Geezer

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8328
  • "Vive la résistance!"
    • View Profile
The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #18 on: 19/01/2011 01:23:30 »
I meant an American Federal State.

Presumably you really meant the USA which is a federation of states. I confess I'm a bit hazy about what Russia is these days.

A putinocracy run by putocrats perhaps?
« Last Edit: 19/01/2011 02:17:20 by Geezer »
 

Offline imatfaal

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2787
  • rouge moderator
    • View Profile
The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #19 on: 19/01/2011 11:56:46 »
A putinocracy run by putocrats perhaps?

Your best pun for a long time   :D :D
 

Offline CliffordK

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6321
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • Site Moderator
    • View Profile
The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #20 on: 19/01/2011 15:01:35 »
The day a disclosure on UFO's happen will be the day many rational people will be left looking like idiots.

If a flying saucer with little green men lands in front of the Capitol building, there will be many excited people. 

Yes, if it turns out that they had been scouting Earth for years, many of us will have egg on our face.  But in all likelihood, the majority of the "ghosts" that alien hunters have been chasing for the last half-century or more will remain just that...  ghosts.
 

Offline JP

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3366
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #21 on: 19/01/2011 16:03:05 »
The day a disclosure on UFO's happen will be the day many rational people will be left looking like idiots.

If a flying saucer with little green men lands in front of the Capitol building, there will be many excited people. 

Yes, if it turns out that they had been scouting Earth for years, many of us will have egg on our face.  But in all likelihood, the majority of the "ghosts" that alien hunters have been chasing for the last half-century or more will remain just that...  ghosts.

Out of a sense of fairness, when will pro-alien-UFO folks have egg on their face? 
 

Offline BenV

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1503
    • View Profile
The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #22 on: 19/01/2011 17:38:51 »
The day a disclosure on UFO's happen will be the day many rational people will be left looking like idiots.

If a flying saucer with little green men lands in front of the Capitol building, there will be many excited people. 

Yes, if it turns out that they had been scouting Earth for years, many of us will have egg on our face.  But in all likelihood, the majority of the "ghosts" that alien hunters have been chasing for the last half-century or more will remain just that...  ghosts.

Out of a sense of fairness, when will pro-alien-UFO folks have egg on their face? 

Maybe when the aliens land and say "we've never been here before"?
 

Offline CliffordK

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6321
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • Site Moderator
    • View Profile
The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #23 on: 19/01/2011 19:08:14 »
The day a disclosure on UFO's happen will be the day many rational people will be left looking like idiots.
If a flying saucer with little green men lands in front of the Capitol building, there will be many excited people. 

Yes, if it turns out that they had been scouting Earth for years, many of us will have egg on our face.  But in all likelihood, the majority of the "ghosts" that alien hunters have been chasing for the last half-century or more will remain just that...  ghosts.
Out of a sense of fairness, when will pro-alien-UFO folks have egg on their face? 
Maybe when the aliens land and say "we've never been here before"?

That would only be true if you could conclude that there were no other possible aliens that could have visited the planet.

Certainly you would ask the aliens if there are any UFO-ologists on their planet, and if they've ever been visited by aliens!!!
 

Offline Geezer

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8328
  • "Vive la résistance!"
    • View Profile
The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #24 on: 19/01/2011 19:35:53 »
The day a disclosure on UFO's happen will be the day many rational people will be left looking like idiots.

If a flying saucer with little green men lands in front of the Capitol building, there will be many excited people. 

Yes, if it turns out that they had been scouting Earth for years, many of us will have egg on our face.  But in all likelihood, the majority of the "ghosts" that alien hunters have been chasing for the last half-century or more will remain just that...  ghosts.

Out of a sense of fairness, when will pro-alien-UFO folks have egg on their face? 

Maybe when the aliens land and say "we've never been here before"?

Would it be politically correct to even call them "aliens"? Maybe "milky wayfarers" would be more appropriate.
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

The Moscow 2011 incident
« Reply #24 on: 19/01/2011 19:35:53 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums