# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: Energy generation  (Read 2959 times)

#### Jolly- Joliver

• Hero Member
• Posts: 584
##### Energy generation
« on: 03/03/2011 04:33:53 »
Maybe better as a new topic

An idea for an energy production system.

Ok when you heat something it expands, the particles often move especially with liquid and gases(losing their energy as they do so), eventually with liquid you end up with nothing everything evaporates, therefore surely the energy leaving the heated thing is greater than the energy input, as both the input and the energy of the substance leave together.

So could it not be possible to using an energy capture system, to create electricity from that reality?

If you used electricity to heat something which also gave off heat as it burned, then used a thermal means to generate electricity, by heat capture- surely there should be any energy plus?
« Last Edit: 03/03/2011 04:36:26 by Wiybit »

#### Geezer

• Neilep Level Member
• Posts: 8328
• "Vive la résistance!"
##### Energy generation
« Reply #1 on: 03/03/2011 05:11:45 »
Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible. You'll have to add enough energy to heat the liquid to its boiling point and also enough energy to make it all evaporate. (The liquid to vapour phase change consumes a very large amount of energy btw.)

What you are describing is not so different from the way a steam engine or steam turbine works. Sadly, they are not terribly efficient, so a substantial amount of heat energy always gets wasted. Thermodynamics is a  cruel master!

If you would like to try different scenarios, and learn a lot about Thermodynamics at the same time, go to http://www.thermofluids.net/

You'll find a lot of great information there as well as a free calculator that lets you model different systems while avoiding the tedium of a lot of lengthy manual calculations.

One of the things you could try is just turning a certain mass of water into steam, first by raising its temperature to boiling point, then converting it into steam.

#### Jolly- Joliver

• Hero Member
• Posts: 584
##### Energy generation
« Reply #2 on: 03/03/2011 08:12:35 »

Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible. You'll have to add enough energy to heat the liquid to its boiling point and also enough energy to make it all evaporate. (The liquid to vapour phase change consumes a very large amount of energy btw.)

What you are describing is not so different from the way a steam engine or steam turbine works. Sadly, they are not terribly efficient, so a substantial amount of heat energy always gets wasted.

No I see that I was thinking of a system enclosed, that refused to allow and heat energy to escape.

Thermodynamics is a  cruel master!

Nuclear energy uses steam also, but what if around the reaction where the heat is you placed some form of thermodynamic conversion system?

Would the conversion of that heat to energy reduce the overall heat or just use the excess so as to not effect the main process?

If you would like to try different scenarios, and learn a lot about Thermodynamics at the same time, go to http://www.thermofluids.net/

You'll find a lot of great information there as well as a free calculator that lets you model different systems while avoiding the tedium of a lot of lengthy manual calculations.

One of the things you could try is just turning a certain mass of water into steam, first by raising its temperature to boiling point, then converting it into steam.

Again my main suggestion is that, as you heat energy is lost, so I was looking at ways of not losing any, Could it not work better on a micro level perhaps? maybe not as a huge system but as lots of combined little ones?

Thanks for the site I'll check it out...

It might be the case that thermo-dyamics will work best in areas that you are already heating for one reason or another and simply take heat and convert to electricity as a power gain, instead of loss. Building combination systems.
« Last Edit: 03/03/2011 08:24:33 by Wiybit »

#### Jolly- Joliver

• Hero Member
• Posts: 584
##### Energy generation
« Reply #3 on: 03/03/2011 08:28:45 »
I just think that maybe if you started small, like making a cup of coffee. In some form of enclosed thermo dyamic system, energy in to energy out, if there is any positive increase even if it's tiny, you are making more than you are using, more energy out than in, means a system that functions.

#### Geezer

• Neilep Level Member
• Posts: 8328
• "Vive la résistance!"
##### Energy generation
« Reply #4 on: 03/03/2011 19:06:52 »
Heat engines can only operate when there is somewhere for the heat to flow to. I suggest you read up on Sadi Carnot. He did a much better job of explaining it than I ever will.
« Last Edit: 03/03/2011 19:09:50 by Geezer »

#### Jolly- Joliver

• Hero Member
• Posts: 584
##### Energy generation
« Reply #5 on: 24/03/2011 22:05:41 »
Heat engines can only operate when there is somewhere for the heat to flow to.

No doubt if you had a loop system that heat or energy would always flow, on to the next part of the loop system.

#### Geezer

• Neilep Level Member
• Posts: 8328
• "Vive la résistance!"
##### Energy generation
« Reply #6 on: 24/03/2011 23:33:45 »
Heat engines can only operate when there is somewhere for the heat to flow to.

No doubt if you had a loop system that heat or energy would always flow, on to the next part of the loop system.

No. The only way to create a loop is to do work, and that means you have to use energy. What you are describing is a free energy, or perpetual motion system. In this particular Universe, that's impossible.

#### Heikki Rinnemaa

• Full Member
• Posts: 92
• MoHei. :)
##### Energy generation
« Reply #7 on: 25/03/2011 11:26:43 »
Hi wiybit or what is your name.

I think that if we want to make new energy-generation,,one road is to start to make new ideas,,

We known that electric-current is matter-particle-motion process,, we talk about electrons,,etc.,,and using atom-theory terminology.

Todays one technolog is sun-solar-cells,,
- no mechanical generator

Sun send particles=named photon through space,,and those photon-current goes through air-layer and comes in the cell,,and make work,,start to push electrons forward.

How we can put electrons to going forward?

Is todays atom-theory break of this thinking or advance,,do we need new matter-particle theory?

What is electricity?

I mean that charged electron is not the answer.

Electron--particles-motion happend many places, can we make this matter-particles to do work easier way?

Round on earth is space-matter-flowing=called magnet-field, magnet-current.

What kind is that system whicn can use this magnet-current to generate electrons?

New type of magnet-current/electrig current flowing-process?

#### The Naked Scientists Forum

##### Energy generation
« Reply #7 on: 25/03/2011 11:26:43 »