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Author Topic: Is quantum filed collapse disproved by this experiment?  (Read 2853 times)

Offline sciconoclast

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More specifically is the Bohr concept of the quantum probability field collapse at the target screen to form the double slit pattern and the concept of non-locality brought into question by the results of this new experiment of mine?

Earlier I posted another experiment in physics and astronomy, "Why does the double slit pattern disappear in this experiment", which apparently indicated that the interference between two photon paths can only occur shortly after leaving the double slit.  In that experiment interference was prevented by separating the two photon paths vertically in the area close to the double slit.   In this new experiment I was able to achieve the same results with horizontal separation.

In this experiment laser light is split by a beam splitter and then brought back into parallel paths with mirrors.  The two paths are separated by a shield.  At the end of the shield each path passes through a separate 0.50mm slit separated by 6.00mm.   First the mirrors are adjusted so that each of the paths is converging towards the centerline at an angle of 0.13207 degrees.

This causes the paths to cross at 1.410m and then diverge to a 50mm separation at an additional distance of 10.846m.  At this point mirrors direct the light in parallel paths, maintaining the 50mm separation back and slightly upwards an additional 1.744m to a screen for a total distance of 14m from the slits to the screen.   This produces the expected double slit pattern with two separate central maximums.

Next the mirrors are readjusted so that each of the two paths exiting the double slit are diverging at an angle of 3.36646 degrees from the centerline.  They thus reach the 50mm separation close to the double slit at a distance of 0.425m.  At this point the paths are directed back and slightly upwards, maintaining the 50mm separation, an additional 13.575m, for a total of 14m, to a target screen.  This only produces two single slit patterns with separated central maximums.  Even if the mirrors are positioned to have the pattern converge into a single overlapped pattern with one central maximum there is still an absence of any double slit spacing.

In both cases the light paths pass through the same double slit and approach the target with the same separation after traveling the same distance.   The only difference is that the paths that produced the double slit interference remained in close proximity after exiting the slit where as the paths that did not produce the double slit separated early.   I see this as a very strong indication that the interference pattern is formed in close proximity to the double slit and not later at the detector shield when the field collapses.

How do you guys and gals see it?

Opps: had some incorrect figures originally ( mixed up with another experiments notes ); corrected now by this edit.  And the following edit.


« Last Edit: 24/03/2011 15:28:17 by sciconoclast »


 

Offline Dominus

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Is quantum filed collapse disproved by this experiment?
« Reply #1 on: 27/03/2011 07:14:32 »
...I see this as a very strong indication that the interference pattern is formed in close proximity to the double slit and not later at the detector shield when the field collapses.
Hello sciconoclast,
You mean to say the interference pattern is formed soon after the double-slit and not later at the detector shield when the field collapses. If the host field is the same field all the way from the double-slit to the screen, I think your assumption is correct.
 

Offline sciconoclast

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Is quantum filed collapse disproved by this experiment?
« Reply #2 on: 28/03/2011 17:49:59 »
Thanks for the reply.
        Yes that is my assumption, but after thinking about the experiment some more I realized that this experiment doesn't prove it.   Fortunately I have other experiments ( a few posted on this site ) that do.
         
The Q.T. explanation for this would be that in the first case light from the two slits reaches both mirrors and those mirrors just redirect the light to two separated double slit patterns on the screen.   In the second case only the light from one of the slits reaches the associated mirror.   When these mirrors redirect the light into convergence there would be a double slit pattern but it would be based on the 50mm separation between the two single slit patterns in the mirrors ( Double Fresnel Mirror Principle), rather than the double slit spacing, and at that 50mm, separation the pattern would be to fine to show up at that relatively short distance.   

I do not know how the defenders of the orthodox missed that.   It might have something to do with being in the new theories dungeon which the phd s mostly avoid.

                                               
Anyway, this was at least a mental exercise.   Stay tunned I think I have another way to prove this concept through horizontal separation.   It is proving to be a lot more complicated than the experiment using vertical separation.

                                                  And thanks again for your interest!                         
 

Offline sciconoclast

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Is quantum filed collapse disproved by this experiment?
« Reply #3 on: 29/03/2011 21:13:41 »
Back with revised experiment.
I have been able to demonstrate the principle more directly using 50mm double slits separated by a 13mm spacer.

First light is sent through the two slits with each path converging towards the centerline at an angle of 0.35679 degrees.   They cross each other at 1.084m and then reach a screen after another 11.241m where they create double slit patterns with the centers 0.140 apart.   Next light is sent through the slits on divergent angles of 0.32541degrees and on to the screen where they form single slit patterns with the centers 0.140m apart.

In both cases the light has passed through the double slit and traveled the same distance to reach the screen with the same overall spread.   The only difference is that the light paths creating the double slit pattern were in close proximity longer than those that did not.   This seems to indicate that the interference pattern is formed prior to reaching the screen in contradiction to Q.T.
 

Offline Dominus

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Is quantum filed collapse disproved by this experiment?
« Reply #4 on: 30/03/2011 20:44:41 »
Hello sciconoclast,
With light going through the slits on divergent angles did you try to shorten the distance in-between the partition of the slits and the screen? Along the distance where light travels is space in your opinion filled with an electromagnetic field?
« Last Edit: 30/03/2011 20:54:01 by Dominus »
 

Offline sciconoclast

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Is quantum filed collapse disproved by this experiment?
« Reply #5 on: 31/03/2011 16:19:14 »
Welcome back Dominus.

In answer to your question about the distance between the slits and the screen: it is important in this experiment for theoretical reasons to demonstrate that the distance traveled and the final spread are the same at the screen.
Unfortunately the large spacer between the slits, which is necessary to create the different path angles, results in a very fine double slit spacing that would be difficult to observe at a shorter distance.

However, I know from other observations that this angle is large enough to prevent an interference pattern with slits  with a tighter spacer.  In those instances the double slit pattern does not occur anywhere along the route.  I have posted other experiments on this site that demonstrate that the interference pattern can only form early and once formed will continue even if light from one of the slits is block from continuing.

As for my thoughts about an electromagnetic field:   I think that photons have a compact core and a broader field with some wave like characteristics; but I do not think this is an electromagnetic field. Although, they may have a lot of similarities.  This is only speculation and this experiment does not prove that; but, it may disprove some aspects of quantum theory.

Obviously you are working out your own concept of light.   And a new concept is definitely called for.   A rough translation of a comment by Einstein into English from German is " Everybody thinks they know what light is and we are all wrong " .   
 

Offline Dominus

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Is quantum filed collapse disproved by this experiment?
« Reply #6 on: 01/04/2011 20:38:56 »
Hello sciconoclast,
Your science is “hands-on” science, sciconoclast, the real thing. To answer the description of your experiment, working with light the electromagnetic field is very difficult to detect because in the visible spectrum there is maximum equilibrium in-between electric force and fields and magnetic forces and fields. If you could send through the slits electrons you would be contending with stronger magnetic forces and fields and the electromagnetic field itself would be easier to detect. As soon as I can dedicate a couple of hours to your “modified experiment”, I’ll answer it.
 

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Is quantum filed collapse disproved by this experiment?
« Reply #6 on: 01/04/2011 20:38:56 »

 

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