The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: cyclists  (Read 6132 times)

Offline ukmicky

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3011
    • View Profile
    • http://www.space-talk.com/
cyclists
« on: 25/03/2006 03:06:53 »
Why don't the police take action against dangerous cyclists.

Should cyclists  be made to take a test and be charged with an offence every time they break the road traffic laws.
Everyday i see them riding through red traffic lights or riding on the wrong side of the road endangering their lives and everyone else's, is it time to treat them like motorists and fine or even ban them from riding on the streets if they can't obey the laws.



YES i say.

Michael


 

another_someone

  • Guest
Re: cyclists
« Reply #1 on: 25/03/2006 03:35:13 »
There are serious logistic problems to charging cyclists.

Since the Government believes it is cheaper to use robots for law enforcement than real human beings (i.e. cameras), and cycles don't carry mandatory registration plates, it is very difficult to utilise the same techniques to enforce the law against cyclists.  Thus, enforcing the law against cyclist (just as enforcing any sensible law against motorists, rather than simply punishing them for technical infringements) would require expensive human police a resource that is unlikely to be alloacted.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/humber/4832086.stm
quote:

Officers in Hull have stopped investigating less serious crime, the city's police commander said.
Instead, they will prioritise the more serious offences in a bid to clear a backlog of 3,500 cases and meet Home Office targets before the end of March.
Unless there is an obvious suspect, less serious crimes such as theft and criminal damage will not be investigated, Ch Supt Sean White said.
He said it was a short-term measure in a city with about 130 crimes each day.
"For a period between mid-December last year and next Sunday, 2 April , we have been focusing our resources on clearing a backlog of more serious offences like violent crimes, robberies, burglaries and vehicle crime," he said.
"If there's a theft, or damage to something, then we will go round and if there's an obvious suspect we will arrest them.
"But if there's no obvious suspect and it's going to require further inquiries, and maybe a prolonged investigation, then we're leaving it on file.



So, what chance is there that officers will be allocated to enforcing traffic regulations against cyclists.  Unless it can be done by cameras alone, it will not be done.



George
 

Offline ukmicky

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3011
    • View Profile
    • http://www.space-talk.com/
Re: cyclists
« Reply #2 on: 25/03/2006 04:23:18 »
yes i agree with that , but even when there are police at traffic lights in a car and they see a cyclist ride straight through the lights they still do nothing. They could use them police who aint really police (you know what i mean)Imagine the money they would make if they went out on just one day a month and fined cyclists who went through red lights.
Down by me at the same place twice a month they do tax disc checks, if they have resources to do that then theirs no reason why they couldnt put out the occasional hit squad against the cyclists.

Michael
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 12656
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • A stitch in time would have confused Einstein.
    • View Profile
Re: cyclists
« Reply #3 on: 26/03/2006 22:59:29 »
They should be made to have insurance. I had a cyclist crash into my car while it was parked and he did quite a lot of damage (dented the wing and door, and a deep scratch about 4 feet long). The cyclist had no ID, the bike had no registration markings, and, of course, no insurance. I had to foot the bill myself. [:(!]

Brand new forum at
http://beaverlandforum.d4a.com
More than just science
 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Re: cyclists
« Reply #4 on: 27/03/2006 02:01:50 »
Can't they put little registration plates on bikes ?...either that or they should be forced to cycle whilst holding a placard with their names, adresses  and tel numbers on it, and a 'PS' saying the best time to ring !

When I worked in London...going through red lights, doing a balancing act in the middle of a busy intersection was/is the order of the day.....I bloody well hated seeing them get away with it...always seceretly hoping they'll come to grief !!..(not fatal of course)....AND they've got their own bloody lanes too !!
 

Offline ukmicky

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3011
    • View Profile
    • http://www.space-talk.com/
Re: cyclists
« Reply #5 on: 27/03/2006 03:11:32 »
They get away with murder and because their so called environmentally friendly the government and the police don't give a damn.
They should be forced to have  microchips placed somewhere in the frames so every time they break the law they can be traced. i heard their trialing a new money making scheme where their placing sensors in the roads of London which will record car details so why not cyclists as well.
My personal hate is when your sitting a the  traffic lights which are just going green and a cyclist all of a suddenly comes from the side and pullsup right in front of my bonnet. And as for the one's who think red means go grrrrrrrr

Michael
« Last Edit: 27/03/2006 03:12:25 by ukmicky »
 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Re: cyclists
« Reply #6 on: 27/03/2006 04:11:10 »
...and they're blatant about it too !!...going through a red light...standing proud !!...

I think we should declare open season on cyclists !..In the interest of science of course ! :)






(disclaimer: This site does not condone the declaring of a hunting season upon cyclists. Nor does the poster who clearly needs assistance of some sort.)




Men are the same as women, just inside out !
 

Offline Corbeille

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
Re: cyclists
« Reply #7 on: 01/04/2006 14:52:28 »
Fancy a bike ride anyone?







"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire"
 

Offline daveshorts

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2583
  • Physics, Experiments
    • View Profile
    • http://www.chaosscience.org.uk
Re: cyclists
« Reply #8 on: 01/04/2006 18:45:24 »
Seeing as someone has to I though I would stand up for bikes:

I think there is a difference between doing dangerous things and breaking the letter of the highway code which is written for cars, which are much wider, faster, and heavier than bikes.

eg
Going the wrong way down one way streets that are one way because they are too narrow for 2 cars rather than because they are busy.
Turning left at a red light when there is no car coming and even if there was there would be plenty of space for you to both fit in the space.
Going through pedestrian crossings at red slowly when there is noone crossing, and as you are narrow you can give enough space that someone who was crossing couldn't reach you unless they were on a motorbike...

When doing this this sort of thing one should be apologetic about it - give way to things that are in the right etc.

This isn't to say that there aren't nutty cyclists about, but then again I could list a few rude things that cars do too...
 

Offline rosy

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
  • Chemistry
    • View Profile
Re: cyclists
« Reply #9 on: 01/04/2006 19:33:31 »
As a (generally) very law abiding cyclist, I'd agree with Dave.

I was particularly annoyed by this comment:
quote:
My personal hate is when your sitting a the traffic lights which are just going green and a cyclist all of a suddenly comes from the side and pullsup right in front of my bonnet.

A large part of the reason why cyclists pull up to the front of queues at traffic lights is because if we stop at the left part way up a queue and pull off with the rest of the traffic stream when the lights change, when going straight on we regularly get carved up by motorists who haven't bothered to look check what's going on on their left before turning.
This is a problem with a tiny minority of motorists, but it only takes one. A motorist just isn't going to be killed by a slow moving cyclist... cyclists are just much more vulnerable.

Living in Cambridge, as a cyclist and occasionally a motorist, I'm driven beserk by a lot of cyclists' behaviour. Riding on the roads without lights at night, riding on to the pavement and then off again back into the road without even looking over their shoulders, etc. etc. I'm absolutely with you, in pronciple, that the police should do something about dangerous cycling (indeed, they do usually stake out random bits of Cambridge and fine people for having no lights), but all the instances of their attempting to do something about "dangerous cycling" that I've heard of have been misdirected at best.

And motorists getting self-righteous about cyclists as a breed gets no-one anywhere. It just encourages cyclists to think like that about motorists.

The question of third party insurance is an interesting one. The fact is that the kind of people who cycle responsibly are the same ones who are likely to have insurance... and those who don't most likely wouldn't. To be honest, living in Cambridge it is a sad fact that a bike registered in the name of a responsible cyclist (even one with a lock that they use) is as likely as not to be being ridden by some idiot with no insurance or anything like it within the year. Given that the DVLA can't keep up with car registrations (they tried to get my parents for a speeding offence by someone driving a car with their old numberplate a year and a bit after they'd paid to have it taken for scrap). Given the rate at which bicycles change hands, I don't rate the chances of any meaningful registration system ever working.

And no, I don't think that radio tagging bikes to allow them to be picked up for going the wrong way down roads would be a good idea (*cough* civil liberties *cough*).
 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Re: cyclists
« Reply #10 on: 01/04/2006 20:32:25 »
Personally, I love cyclists. Have never had a bad word to say about them ever .
 

Offline DrN

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 815
    • View Profile
Re: cyclists
« Reply #11 on: 01/04/2006 22:42:24 »
I used to cycle a lot, never actually got knocked off my bike, I usually managed to wobble enough to stay upright. there are some very very dangerous drivers around, they either think cyclists are smaller and slower than they really are, or they have 'cyclist blindness' and just don't see them.

having said that, a colleague was killed while cycling home, with lights and on a cycle path, by another cyclist coming the other direction on a cycle path with no lights. he was knocked into the path of an on-coming car.

since I started driving regularly i can't bring myself to ride my bike on the roads anymore. I don't know why, I mean I do wear a crash helmet, fluorescent bands, have proper lights and obey the highway code. I don't think cyclists appreciate how un-visible they really are to drivers without all that stuff.

incidently, I took my cycling profciency test in primary school. does this still exist? and it is nationwide? my dad took it too when he was at school, so its been around a while. there really is no excuse for crap cycling when everyone is taught how to do it properly.
 

another_someone

  • Guest
Re: cyclists
« Reply #12 on: 02/04/2006 01:17:00 »
quote:
Originally posted by fishytails

I used to cycle a lot, never actually got knocked off my bike, I usually managed to wobble enough to stay upright. there are some very very dangerous drivers around, they either think cyclists are smaller and slower than they really are, or they have 'cyclist blindness' and just don't see them.




Mixing traffic with very different size, speeds, and manoeuvrability, is always difficult.  It isn't any easier to mix HGV's and cars, and it is just as easy for an HGV driver not to notice a small car right under his nose.



George
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 12656
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • A stitch in time would have confused Einstein.
    • View Profile
Re: cyclists
« Reply #13 on: 02/04/2006 02:27:31 »
Having studied and worked in Cambridge for a number of years, it has been my experience that there are at least an equal number of dangerous or reckless cyclists as there are sensible ones. Pavements seem to be used as cycle slip-roads or as an extra lane if the traffic is heavy, traffic lights may as well not exist, and motorists are treated with holier-than thou disdain.

As for saying electronic tagging of bikes may infringe civil liberties, that is going to happen with cars so why not with bikes? In case anyone hasn't heard, the EU is planning to require all new cars to have electronic tracking devices for the purpose of road-toll charges. The British government - in the guise of David Blunkett when he was Home Secretary - have suggested the system could also be used to record traffic regulation infringements such as going into bus lanes, going the wrong way up 1-way streets etc. As such a system would be a good money-earner from petty fines (at least as good as speed cameras), you can bet your life it will be implemented. As it would also provide yet another way for people to be tracked, if Labour are still in power when the EU brings in the law, you can be sure the UK will be the first to implement it.

Brand new forum at
http://beaverlandforum.d4a.com
More than just science
 

Offline JimBob

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6564
  • Thanked: 7 times
  • Moderator
    • View Profile
Re: cyclists
« Reply #14 on: 02/04/2006 03:28:43 »
It is being whispered about in the US, too. Impalnting babies or having it in manditiory identity cards to combat illegal aliens. Like Stalin.

Orwell where are you when we need you?


The mind is like a parachute. It works best when open.  -- A. Einstein
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: cyclists
« Reply #14 on: 02/04/2006 03:28:43 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums