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Offline simplified

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The Speed of Light is Infinite
« Reply #100 on: 06/06/2011 18:24:31 »
Ken Hughes,
why do you think the mainstream knows what is time?
 

Offline Ken Hughes

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« Reply #101 on: 06/06/2011 18:59:21 »
Simplified,

I don't.

Maybe I should've written "EVEN the mainstream says so".

It was not my intention to make the point that if the mainstream says something then it must be true.
 

Offline tamoorkhan

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« Reply #102 on: 06/06/2011 20:56:46 »
Well it is a good perception of facts but if we say the speed of light is infinite then einstein's special relativity will be dissaproved.The speed of light is constant.The speed of light was first measured by Ole Romer and later by Jean foucalt.Light has wave and particle duality.If somehow a different value of c is measured then we have measured another particles speed not light.But concept is limited to inertial frames and outside it probabilities might arise.
 

Offline Ken Hughes

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« Reply #103 on: 06/06/2011 21:37:27 »
Tamoorkhan,

I think you misunderstand.

I agree, the relative speed of light is invariant. It is always 300 x 106 m/s or thereabouts.
This new theory does not dispute that and Einstein's relativity remains unchallanged.
The proposal is simply that although the relative velocity of light is "c" as observed from any other frame, its velocity as experienced WITHIN its own frame is infinite, due to the fact that time has dilated to a standstill in the frame of the light, relative to the rest of the universe.

Frankly, I don't see what the arguments are about as this actually fits well with mainstream relativity theory, but it does challenge some of our longstanding beliefs and perceptions of reality.

If we entertain this postulate, then we have to change our thinking and let go of length contraction due to motion, at least as a real effect, and accept that this is just a relative illusion.

The problem in getting this idea across is that it does not disagree with the experimental results and observations or even the math of mainstream science. It seems the mainstream will only accept a new theory if it disagrees and mathematically disproves the existing theory. Otherwise, existing theory still stands. Also, at the moment, there is no envisaged practical use in the new ideas, but then that has always changed historically as new ideas become accepted.

Finally, this does not really constitute a new theory, but suggests a modification to Special Relativity
« Last Edit: 06/06/2011 21:44:37 by Ken Hughes »
 

Offline tamoorkhan

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« Reply #104 on: 06/06/2011 23:08:40 »
Mr Ken Hughes,
No matter what reasoning other scientists may give but the speed of light is constant.If you study the Einstein's mass energy equivalance as introduced by einstein which every one knows is the most valid thing ever introduced by Albert Einstein.Albert's Einstein's theory of general and special relativity have remained dominant.In this very year i came accross a wonderful article which told me that more than 8 experiments have proved the general and special relativity.Although it remains challenged.
E=mcsquare equation shows us that speed of light is constant.Now every thory has it's limit.Newton's laws are true in inertial frames but not in external frames.Simmillarly einstein's equations can be correct in particular frames of reference but there has been no evidence till now against it except some.Speed of light like Planck's constant is constant.
 

Offline Ken Hughes

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« Reply #105 on: 07/06/2011 12:24:06 »
Tamoorkahn,

I don't know why you're telling me this. I agreed with you !

Please read my last post again.
 

Offline tamoorkhan

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« Reply #106 on: 07/06/2011 13:10:30 »
Mr Ken Hughes,
I know that you agreed with me earlier but the thing i tried to tell you is this that the slight modification which the theory suggests is impossible.The reason is this that we use photons in quantum mechanics.In quantum mechanics we study particle having dual nature.The mass energy equation is quiet accurate.WE by the help of it have made accurate calculations on nuclear fussion.So even slight modification is impossible.
 

Offline simplified

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« Reply #107 on: 07/06/2011 14:22:15 »
Mr Tamoorkhan,

You cannot place laboratory on a fast particle, therefore you should not disclose results of exploring of such fast laboratory. ;)
 

Offline Ken Hughes

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« Reply #108 on: 07/06/2011 15:42:50 »
Tamoorkahn,

 I am not proposing any changes to the laws of physics, either for waves or particles. Their speed will always be "c" relative to us or to other waves or particles.

If you are suggesting the existence of waves or particles that travel at different speeds (slower or faster than light), then that does not change the proposal, but would perhaps change Lorentz for a faster than light particle. In other words, for an infinitely fast wave/particle, the speed would not be contracted by as much as normal, ie in accordance with Lorentz, and so it would appear to us to move faster than light. This would mean that the space time continuum for the wave/particle, would be different than ours.

Is this what you meant?
 

Offline tamoorkhan

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« Reply #109 on: 07/06/2011 20:06:21 »
Mr Ken Hughes,
 You have percieved the information that i gave you in the light of general relativity.But this theory is not enough.You should prove the fact in other laws or theories as well.After many years of research in physics, i have always come to a conclusion that whatever the scientists may say about the accuracy of general relativity there are still some draw backs.I can bet that a factor is not clearly defined in terms of physics.Whatever is the newtonian physics, einstein modified it and introduced new constant like cosmological constant,stress energy constant etc.But a physicist will say that these are theretical not mathematical.But these have still been accurate in external frame of refrence.So in my view these factors are just going to put the theory in accordance with other theories and may advance them to a serious extent.Although your view is acccurate to some extent, it need verification.I here expain the photon in terms of classical mechanics although a physicist might deny it.Look if there is greater input greater will be the output.Now let us say that photon has an energy.As it has a limited energy it cant go in unlimited speed.It is a particle of light.In light it might be in some sort of equillibrium.And as it is particle of light it will move with same speed.It's speed cant be unlimited in any frame of referance.Yet the concept of relative speed is accurate but we consider the standard.In external frames it would also be relative.As it may change in external frames than the standards will also change.
 

Offline Ken Hughes

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« Reply #110 on: 07/06/2011 21:41:20 »
Tamoorkahn,

Thankyou. Yes I understand your point, that if you don't add energy, you don't get acceleration, also that there isn't enough energy available to accelerate it to infinite speed.

BUT, that is not what is happening.

Firstly, the photon does not accelerate itself, say like a rocket with a reacting force. It does not use any of its energy to move. It moves at the speed of light because that is what light does. I cannot explain that, neither can anyone else. It is just a law of nature that light spreads out at "c" relative to anything.

Secondly, and more importantly, no energy is required for the photon to accelerate from the speed of light in the frame of the light. Why? Because the time dilation which decreases its time rate to zero by the time "c" is reached, comes FREE from Special Relativity. It is the result of the nature of space-time described by Lorentz. It is simply the time rate reducing to zero that produces the relative effect of increasing the speed within the frame to infinite speed. It is not an inertial, mechanical effect or a Newtonian mechanism, it is a temporal one.

In our frame,             velocoity v(stationary frame) = Distance "s"/time taken in our frame = "c"

In the photon's frame,    velocoity v(moving frame) = Distance "s"/zero time taken in the moving frame = ∞

This effect requires no energy to happen. The "acceleration" is simply due to the time dilation and the time dilation is a result of the motion. All relative, of course.

I know you can measure time taken for photons to travel certain distances, but this time is the time taken in YOUR frame. It takes no time at all in the frame of the photon for the photon to travel ANY distance, because time stands still in the frame of the photon relative to our frame.
« Last Edit: 08/06/2011 10:38:16 by Ken Hughes »
 

Offline tamoorkhan

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« Reply #111 on: 08/06/2011 13:23:36 »
Mr Ken Hughes,
Again you have told the perception in terms of modern physics.As I said earlier that I explain the facts of the photon in terms of classical mechanics although a physicist may declare me wrong.I just want you to start your imagination from this although there is no mass of photon and no inertia.But as I said earlier it is in some equilibrium with the light which is why it is bound to it.With out energy it cant  move with infinite speed with which you agreed.But whatever there is in general relativity is the modification in Newtonian Physics with addition of certain factors so that it might work in external space.As far as the photon is concerned, it is a particle of light.Even if we concider that  it has no requirement of any thing there will be doubt for it still remains with light.You just mentioned a formula.But i would like to present you the fact that nothing can be divided by zero.Take your calculator and divide any number with 0 you get an error.The frame explained by Lorrentz is the frame only applicable for the speeds less than the speed of light.
 

Offline Ken Hughes

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« Reply #112 on: 08/06/2011 14:02:28 »


........and there, I think we will leave it.
 

Offline simplified

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« Reply #113 on: 12/06/2011 06:26:31 »
Lengths contraction does not reduce amount  of rotations.Time dilation makes.

Simplified, who is that comment addressed at?  And can you be a little more specific - i don't see what your point is
I think a ratio of quantities of identical rotations cannot be relative. The inability to count quantity of rotations is not a science.
 

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The Speed of Light is Infinite
« Reply #113 on: 12/06/2011 06:26:31 »

 

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