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Offline Jolly- Joliver

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« Reply #25 on: 12/05/2011 14:43:10 »
Interesting about JPMorgan acquiring gold against loans to its owners. They claim it is a "service" in storing gold (people see it as a hedge against a falling dollar) but critics say they may be reselling it in exchange for gold price derivatives. This is where I lose touch with reality. I can see that they may have some maths worked out so that they can't lose but I can also see that not everyone can win. Actually, I don't know that anyone outside really knows what they are doing.

I think lots of people get what the banks are doing but keep it quiet as it's in the interest to do so. I say lots, but lots of those upstairs.

What do you think? Here you go, they are working to crash the dollar, we all know that, but are trying to keep it up and crash it when it is in their best interest to do so, this is part of the reason why the banks are overselling gold and silver, it keeps their price down, Now when the dollar breaks, it will become a worthless currency, and all this Gold and silver they have sold without caste sell agreements will be paid in dollars, and at that time after the crash the dollar will be worthless, so the bankers are buying gold, selling certificates they know will become worthless, they get the gold and the people get shafted, but keeping the price down they allow more time to unload their trillions in losses and they are unloading them to the people, as we the people are expected to pay many of these bad loans off today, through the tax and austerity measures, government is reducing spending, so it can pay off these loans and bad debts that the banks have given them.

So they are preparing for a huge crash, to bust the dollar, take a new currency, get as much gold as possible, and inflate the rest of their debts away. More or less, and it will happen as they dictate, The oligarchy of course.   

You need to see just how much debt they generated, it's in the trillions of trillions, they give some to as many countrues as they can, others they are trying to unwind, others they seek to play with bonds and using the money made pay them off, and after all that, they will inflate away the rest as they burn the dollar.

In the words of Max Keiser and I agree with him "We need to do what ever we can to end this banker occupation" As in being occupied by.


The rumours all come from a limited range of sources. I think the concern is that if the dollar crashes and JPM have not actually got the gold, then JPM crashes and the people lose their gold too. It has certainly been the case that national banks like JPM (you can think that JPM is linked with the federal reserve) or the Bank of England don't actually keep gold to cover the money in circulation anymore. The promise that they "will pay the bearer ..." on your used tenner has long ceased to be a reality.

I would be grateful of a clear explanation of what anyone thinks is going on (allbeit a theory) and also for an explanation from JPM's perspective.

It's not Gold but silver, JPM is mainly trading in or was, thanks to buy silver crash JPM campaign, they have moved more into gold, but as a slight explanation, JPM is a member of the silver users association they are in bed together for what ever reason, the SUA use silver in their products, so they want a low silver price, JPM is helping them get one. all the over selling is keeping the price low, but it's not just JPM other members of the SUA are doing the same.

If a market is rational it's broken, as someone is deciding and dictating, so it's no longer free, it's controlled. But who doesn't know that anyway, only fools and horses.

To use a quote from JFK the film "First we had Castro with us then we tried to wack him, it's all mutual interest" It's called a cartel, and all the banks are in it together.


By the way, can you get higher order derivatives? Like betting on the rate of change of price of a derivative, or even betting on the rate of change of the rate of change?

Do not encourage them, are you insane?!
« Last Edit: 12/05/2011 15:11:27 by Wiybit »
 

Offline Jolly- Joliver

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« Reply #26 on: 12/05/2011 15:14:43 »
Quote from: Me

The rumours all come from a limited range of sources. I think the concern is that if the dollar crashes and JPM have not actually got the gold, then JPM crashes and the people lose their gold too. It has certainly been the case that national banks like JPM (you can think that JPM is linked with the federal reserve) or the Bank of England don't actually keep gold to cover the money in circulation anymore. The promise that they "will pay the bearer ..." on your used tenner has long ceased to be a reality.

I would be grateful of a clear explanation of what anyone thinks is going on (allbeit a theory) and also for an explanation from JPM's perspective.

It's not Gold but silver, JPM is mainly trading in or was, thanks to buy silver crash JPM campaign, they have moved more into gold, but as a slight explanation, JPM is a member of the silver users association they are in bed together for what ever reason, the SUA use silver in their products, so they want a low silver price, JPM is helping them get one. all the over selling is keeping the price low, but it's not just JPM other members of the SUA are doing the same.

If a market is rational it's broken, as someone is deciding and dictating, so it's no longer free, it's controlled. But who doesn't know that anyway, only fools and horses.

To use a quote from JFK the film "First we had Castro with us then we tried to wack him, it's all mutual interest" It's called a cartel, and all the banks are in it together.

Just so we are clear, banks used to compete for customers, and over service quality etc Today they work together, and rather than competeing seek to just rip as many people off as they can, mutual interest, they also work together to set the rules they want and together bully all the governments they can. A Cartel.

Doesnt help either that many of these bankers are all Templars, cultists. Following the grand historic tradition of the templars, it was their extorion and banking racketeering that lead to them becomming so wealthy and the church turning on them way back on friday the 13th all those years ago. They fled to Scotland and then a few years later invented the Free Masons as a respectable frount.

Was also them that forced John to sign a certain piece of paper I think you'll find, Ofcourse I express an opinion. Very interesting Cult history actually.

I personally think Cult members should not be allowed into government, you can't stop them entering business, but they all serve their interests and conspire.

Church of John some call them. John the Baptist, God is gracious, they don't really except Jesus. That's the thing about cults they end up believing all kinds of rediculas stuff, they I believe see John the baptist as superior to Jesus as the Baptist, baptised Christ. Again this is going back to the time of the templars, when they as knights worked for the church but gained their own faith, over time be sure it's just got more radical.
« Last Edit: 12/05/2011 15:45:24 by Wiybit »
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #27 on: 12/05/2011 17:30:46 »
By the way, can you get higher order derivatives? Like betting on the rate of change of price of a derivative, or even betting on the rate of change of the rate of change?

Interesting idea Graham. You'd have to move PDQ to cash in your gain before the higher order derivative went negative  ;D
 

Offline graham.d

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« Reply #28 on: 12/05/2011 17:32:31 »
The trouble is most of the web comments is based on Max Keiser. I have not heard JPM's side of the story. While I can believe that there are such machinations, even to the extent of crashing the dollar, and even, maybe, that the Federal Reserve is in on it, but tying this in to the Knights Templar is really a bridge too far. Geezer must be involved too. A Scot, living in the US and who sold his house in California just at the right time... spooky.

Free Masonry is a hangover and certainly a mutual backscratching organisation (in my opinion). I know a couple of Freemasons and I knew someone (a scotsman and not a mason and sadly deceased) who held a very senior position in a Scottish Bank (now part of Barclays). None of these people are or were up to anything untoward. Very decent guys in fact. I used to wind up one of the masons because he was a lord high stag (or some such thing) and he didn't agree with me that the masons were just a mutual backscratching society.

There are a whole load of pressure groups, lobbyists, religious fanatics, political groups etc., some of which are well organised and can and do influence the way the world is run. I struggle to see it in this case, unless you can provide some good evidence of course.

You maybe right that JPM is betting on the dollar being overvalued and that their actions, being so large and influential, may help to amplify the effects so as to exaggerate any adjustment into being a sudden fall. But you could argue that what they are doing is common sense from their perspective and nothing more devious than that. Afterall, people could just hang on to their Gold and Silver if they want to; in fact if it thought likely that the dollar will collapse, they should do.
 

Offline imatfaal

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« Reply #29 on: 12/05/2011 17:33:45 »
They were trading (and probably are once again) what were, in effect, third order derivatives.  In the words of Graham (Chapman not D) "Too Silly!"
 

Offline Jolly- Joliver

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« Reply #30 on: 12/05/2011 17:59:46 »
The trouble is most of the web comments is based on Max Keiser. I have not heard JPM's side of the story. While I can believe that there are such machinations, even to the extent of crashing the dollar, and even, maybe, that the Federal Reserve is in on it, but tying this in to the Knights Templar is really a bridge too far.

Not at all, a lot of bankers are members of cults, The templar revelation is an ok Book on the subject, Cults exist and are very powerful some of them, have lots of members, in lots of places.

Just because you do not know what they are doing, does not mean they are not doing anything. Look at the election before last in America it was Bush verse Kerry both are members of skull and bones, who ever you voted in a skull and bones man was gonna be president.


Geezer must be involved too. A Scot, living in the US and who sold his house in California just at the right time... spooky.

Free Masonry is a hangover and certainly a mutual backscratching organisation (in my opinion).
 I know a couple of Freemasons and I knew someone (a scotsman and not a mason and sadly deceased) who held a very senior position in a Scottish Bank (now part of Barclays). None of these people are or were up to anything untoward. Very decent guys in fact. I used to wind up one of the masons because he was a lord high stag (or some such thing) and he didn't agree with me that the masons were just a mutual backscratching society.

Many will say it's an old boys club, works as a pyramid, those at the bottom have no clue. It's the thing about the shaddows all kinds of things go on.


There are a whole load of pressure groups, lobbyists, religious fanatics, political groups etc., some of which are well organised and can and do influence the way the world is run. I struggle to see it in this case, unless you can provide some good evidence of course.

you can ref my past comment about skull and bones, some say Obama is a Mason.


You maybe right that JPM is betting on the dollar being overvalued and that their actions, being so large and influential, may help to amplify the effects so as to exaggerate any adjustment into being a sudden fall. But you could argue that what they are doing is common sense from their perspective and nothing more devious than that. Afterall, people could just hang on to their Gold and Silver if they want to;

If they take psyical delivery and then find somewhere to keep it. Most that buy silver from JPM buy a silver certificate, a piece of paper that says you own this amount of silver(like orginal paper money) there are other ways they sell and buy it also, but the silver isnt there, when it comes to collecting if you do not have a caste settle agreement they'll give you dollars.

You can keep your JPM pieace of paper, but that'll be worthless after a dollar demise.


in fact if it thought likely that the dollar will collapse, they should do.

Not thought likly they are planning it, China wants the dollar gone so does russia as the world reserve currency, and they want a new currency basket unit of exchange to replace it, thing is while these countries plan it's demise thinking they are cleaver America is also planning it, others are really behind this movement. America will probably take the Amero, Just as europe has the Euro, and the new world reserve currency will be the S.D.R as they are planning

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Drawing_Rights

"In late March 2009 Zhou Xiaochuan, governor of the People's Bank of China proposed using the SDR as a worldwide reserve currency in place of the dollar as a way to cope with problems associated with the US dollar and the Euro being used as world reserve currencies"

Dont you think it's funny that China suggests the SDR? The IMF controls it, and the IMF is a big lacky to American corporate interests, just as the WTO is.

Who wins here really, all the countries are being heavily over burdened with debts and many are being forced to default. No peoples are winning that's for sure. 
« Last Edit: 12/05/2011 18:29:58 by Wiybit »
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #31 on: 12/05/2011 18:29:39 »

Geezer must be involved too. A Scot, living in the US and who sold his house in California just at the right time... spooky.


Strangely enough  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Rite

I had never even heard of this lot till I moved to the US. Personally, I take a pretty dim view of any organization that requires you to subject yourself to an initiation ceremony without revealing the details in advance.

Signed: Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret
« Last Edit: 12/05/2011 18:32:03 by Geezer »
 

Offline Jolly- Joliver

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« Reply #32 on: 12/05/2011 18:42:13 »

Geezer must be involved too. A Scot, living in the US and who sold his house in California just at the right time... spooky.


Strangely enough  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Rite

I had never even heard of this lot till I moved to the US. Personally, I take a pretty dim view of any organization that requires you to subject yourself to an initiation ceremony without revealing the details in advance.

Signed: Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret

:)

Agree, orginally sons of masons joined up as standard but I think that caused problems as some said after a few years "I never agreed to this stuff" So today apparently you have to ask to join, and they are not meant to invite people, although someone I met told me they knew someone that was invited to join, just lie and lie don't they. and actually I know someone that told me he was invited.

But it's worse than that, you dont know what you are joining first, and then it takes years to go up the ladder and with each step you learn something new.

Albert Pike "Lucifer "the light bearer", a strange name to give to an angel of darkness..." He goes on but basically ends up saying that the light is with that idiot. I point out that as he fell he lost his job- to bare the light, so no light in that idiot be sure.

If you do not know Albert pike he is a perlific Masonic writer, they twist everything.

Check the film
 

Woe to those that call darkness light and light darkness.

I'll say this as well, one Mason I spoke with told me that Jesus never even existed, says a lot. Also met a few that were Satanists- repenting satanists, well one was.
« Last Edit: 12/05/2011 18:54:07 by Wiybit »
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #33 on: 12/05/2011 18:55:07 »
Well, you can say what you like about Pike, but at least he knew how to make a good video.

 

Offline Jolly- Joliver

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« Reply #34 on: 12/05/2011 19:02:04 »
Well, you can say what you like about Pike, but at least he knew how to make a good video.


Weirder than some of my dreams, last nights was quiet fun, I was getting beaten by a bunch backward cowards, and yes I did tell them that, some of us have a back bone.  :)  

To quote saint paul "I was beaten by an angel of satan, to stop me becomming to proud"

I never get to kiss on the other side tho.  [:-'(]
even if it felt like one :D

Geezer what you done you got me joking about,

"Can't trust em, they lie to the fish"

Like I always say- the weak only feel strong when they are beating people, and cleaver when they are decieving, ofcourse by weak I mean unsound, empty, them that lack and so seek compensation- solice in their sadism. I still pity them even as they hurt me.
« Last Edit: 12/05/2011 20:54:32 by Wiybit »
 

Offline Jolly- Joliver

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« Reply #35 on: 12/05/2011 19:38:57 »
You maybe right that JPM is betting on the dollar being overvalued and that their actions, being so large and influential, may help to amplify the effects so as to exaggerate any adjustment into being a sudden fall. But you could argue that what they are doing is common sense from their perspective and nothing more devious than that.

And I have to re-adress that comment, as the banks are working as a cartel they are planning what is to come. We do not even know how much bad debt there is the banks will not tell us. and if we have learnt anything from the recent banking crisis it's that the banks are professionally devious.
« Last Edit: 12/05/2011 19:43:42 by Wiybit »
 

Offline Jolly- Joliver

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« Reply #36 on: 12/05/2011 21:09:06 »
Do you all want to see something beautiful?

Here watch this
Max Keiser: breif report:- for today
 

Offline Jolly- Joliver

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« Reply #37 on: 12/05/2011 21:14:38 »
Shall we have a song to celebrate?

Jesse J, Price tag.

Bought you a few years :).

To quote lady Gaga "I like game" meeaow
« Last Edit: 12/05/2011 21:56:56 by Wiybit »
 

Offline Jolly- Joliver

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« Reply #38 on: 12/05/2011 22:24:05 »
Do you all want to see something beautiful?

Here watch this
Max Keiser: breif report:- for today

Now why has gold and other comodities fallen? Because they have sold, and deflated the price. now have they just sold even more junk? To say have they sold comodites long? and given out even more fake gold certificates? Or is it that the market has realised that the stuff isnt there, The whole system a joke really? so what they have isnt worth what they felt it was, Who can you trust?


Or are the oligarchy trying to hide? As people begin to spot the inflation causers? More likly as it sounds like an unloading doesn't it, not a manfatured sell, but a selling of what exists. To say they haven't made more certificates the majority of players are just selling- but the rubbish obviously they are not going to sell the good stuff are they.

No regs no trust. It's not illegal for them to sell junk as gold is it, nothing to prevent it, cant prosicute either it's exceptable behaviour, as no regs say they cant. So they rip you all off. even if the regs do say they cant, no one is going to prosicute them, thats their world a free hand to exploit, for the masters upstairs.
« Last Edit: 12/05/2011 22:52:52 by Wiybit »
 

Offline Jolly- Joliver

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« Reply #39 on: 12/05/2011 22:49:16 »
So we are having a re-assesment, what is it really worth?

And what does the oligarchy want really? Answer, confidence.

To be continued  :)

« Last Edit: 12/05/2011 22:59:08 by Wiybit »
 

Offline Jolly- Joliver

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« Reply #40 on: 12/05/2011 23:00:11 »
The big question for the cleptocratic oligarch of today is "what do I need to do, so you remain a mug?"

"What you want regulation for? That's big government, the tax man, that naughty tax man, he'll take all your money"

 
Meaoow
« Last Edit: 12/05/2011 23:17:33 by Wiybit »
 

Offline Jolly- Joliver

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« Reply #41 on: 12/05/2011 23:29:40 »
When Gold starts to rise, the mugs have bought the lies. Ouuu

There's a new mug a minute.
 

Offline Jolly- Joliver

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« Reply #42 on: 13/05/2011 00:22:56 »
Just think about this where has all that money that was in comodities gone? it hasnt gone into other comodities as all have fallen, some will have been wiped out, but I think you'll find the majority is sitting in the bank waiting to come out again.
 

Offline Jolly- Joliver

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« Reply #43 on: 13/05/2011 16:08:38 »
What is the difference between a slug and a snail? anyone?
 

Offline Jolly- Joliver

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« Reply #44 on: 13/05/2011 16:23:42 »
I predict Gold saying more or less stagnant for a while, as people figure out their situation, then a drop, as people dump the crap, but the snail could buy it, as they sell ofcourse, keeping the price flat.

Then?

Hey the oligarchy has spent soo long selling people crap I think it's time they bought some. :)
« Last Edit: 13/05/2011 16:33:43 by Wiybit »
 

Offline Jolly- Joliver

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« Reply #45 on: 13/05/2011 16:41:33 »
Thom Hartmann on bankers. Today-

 

Offline Jolly- Joliver

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« Reply #46 on: 13/05/2011 17:01:05 »
They'll be a slight rally towards the end of the day and Gold will sit slightly down, well they don't wanna buy all the crap do they. :P

They say when you make a prediction about the market, the market changes. we'll see :)
« Last Edit: 13/05/2011 20:43:51 by Wiybit »
 

Offline Jolly- Joliver

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« Reply #47 on: 13/05/2011 20:22:24 »
I expected more from Britian, I just checked the closing, Gold was down 0.71  :P

I was talking about America, which I think is still trading, and currently sitting at - 0.89. Gold is down nearly one percent.
« Last Edit: 13/05/2011 20:27:51 by Wiybit »
 

Offline Jolly- Joliver

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« Reply #48 on: 13/05/2011 20:31:44 »
It's falling again, when the comps kick in, it'll flat line, then rise slowly. and I think as I said close slightly down after the little rally
 

Offline Jolly- Joliver

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« Reply #49 on: 13/05/2011 20:46:37 »
It's at - 0.95 and we have? 

Just under fifteen mins left on the trading floor, I think anyway they are five hours behind right and close at 4 est time.
« Last Edit: 13/05/2011 20:49:34 by Wiybit »
 

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