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Offline kowalskil

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Is this cold fusion idea going to work?
« on: 11/05/2011 16:29:35 »
1) Some of you might enjoy to learn about a new gadget

newbielink:http://www.rainews24.rai.it/it/video.php?id=23096 [nonactive]



2) Will October 2011 be the beginning of a new energy-production era ? I am skeptical, as explained at:

newbielink:http://pages.csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/cf/rossi.html [nonactive]
.
Ludwik Kowalski
« Last Edit: 25/06/2012 15:49:29 by peppercorn »


 

Offline Geezer

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Is this cold fusion idea going to work?
« Reply #1 on: 11/05/2011 17:29:09 »
Is it a coincidence that he's in Bologna? I think not ;D
« Last Edit: 11/05/2011 21:45:00 by Geezer »
 

Offline imatfaal

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« Reply #2 on: 11/05/2011 18:22:49 »
Ludwik - from my reading of the comments to Andrea Rossi's blog there are some pretty heavyweight physicists getting involved in this debate yourself included ;-)  Am I right in thinking that if this does have the nuclear catalysis effect claimed it is an epoch changing discovery? 
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #3 on: 11/05/2011 21:41:13 »
I noticed on the video that they said the details of how it works cannot be revealed because the patent is not granted yet. Of course, that's silly, because patent applications are public information. This would seem to be it

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=84vwAAAAEBAJ&dq=andrea+rossi
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #4 on: 11/05/2011 22:54:15 »
The plot thickens.

If Rossi deliberately does not include details of some "secret ingredient" in the patent, if it ever is granted, the patent can be challenged. Patents have been invalidated because the inventors deliberately witheld information regarding the "best method".

If he is holding something back, I'd be inclined to think it's a bit fishy.
 

Offline JP

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« Reply #5 on: 12/05/2011 00:20:31 »
So he has a black box, and out of the black box comes energy.  It's impossible to judge it scientifically without being able to reproduce it, so it isn't really worth discussing as science.

My personal opinion is that it's nonsense and he's trying to get publicity, which is working, since we're discussing it here.  :)  Of course, if he is on to something, then we won't really know until he decides to tell us how it works, or starts producing these things commercially.

 

Offline imatfaal

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« Reply #6 on: 12/05/2011 11:34:55 »
So he has a black box, and out of the black box comes energy.  It's impossible to judge it scientifically without being able to reproduce it, so it isn't really worth discussing as science.

My personal opinion is that it's nonsense and he's trying to get publicity, which is working, since we're discussing it here.  :)  Of course, if he is on to something, then we won't really know until he decides to tell us how it works, or starts producing these things commercially.



He has told a few other experimental physicists (and not just nutjobs like most of these perpmotion/coldfusion guys) who have agreed to keep schtum (and attempt to repeat his results) until he launches a big machine and publishes the entire theory.  He does have a physics nobel laureate and various other heads of department/professorial level taking him fairly seriously.  I agree with both Geezer and JP that the way he has gone about it does not engender confidence - i think he is terrified of going ahead without a full working system, a full working theory, and complete results that have been repeated by others.   The theory cannot be really grasped at the moment because it is so unusual and against what we have been taught. and whilst I am aware that no amount of interest from scientists can make a false theory true; the fact that profs of nuclear physics like Ludowik are taking it serious enough to attempt to poke holes in it means, to me at least, its worth keeping an eye upon.
 

Offline lightarrow

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« Reply #7 on: 12/05/2011 13:26:10 »
Is it a coincidence that he's in Bologna? I think not ;D
??? What do you mean?
 

Offline graham.d

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« Reply #8 on: 12/05/2011 14:34:55 »
Perhaps it needs James Randi to look at it. Rossi does not seem to have a background that gives him credibility; quite the opposite in fact. I'm afraid scientists are notoriously, if surprisingly, gullible. Maybe because they are drawn into seeing patterns to which they are guided and fail to see the card up the sleeve.
 

Offline imatfaal

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« Reply #9 on: 12/05/2011 15:53:48 »
Graham - you are right; I think, despite all the accusations of scientific dogma and repression of new ideas, that scientists are the most likely members of society to accept the possibility of a complete change to their most fundamental notions, yet the least likely to accept this change without empirical evidence.
 

Offline imatfaal

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« Reply #10 on: 12/05/2011 15:56:15 »
Is it a coincidence that he's in Bologna? I think not ;D
??? What do you mean?

Baloney is common American slang for nonsense/claptrap - the name derives from a sausage that originated in Bologna.
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #11 on: 12/05/2011 18:47:07 »

Baloney is common American slang for nonsense/claptrap - the name derives from a sausage that originated in Bologna.


Commonly prefaced with "a load of".

..............

What I find interesting about these kind of things is that, even if Rossi now realizes it really is baloney, he is so far into it, and he has dragged so many others along with him, that he has little choice but to keep plugging along.
 

Offline lightarrow

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« Reply #12 on: 12/05/2011 20:06:28 »
Baloney is common American slang for nonsense/claptrap - the name derives from a sausage that originated in Bologna.
Ah, I get it now. Which is that sausage? Mortadella?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortadella

I like a good sandwitch with mortadella!
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #13 on: 12/05/2011 20:21:50 »
It's very similar to mortadella, but without the chunks of lard. Not entirely unlike spam!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_sausage

I belive the origin of the US slang expression is something like

"No matter how thin you slice it, it's still baloney."

(Sorry for completely derailing this thread  ;D)
 

Offline graham.d

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« Reply #14 on: 16/05/2011 12:51:09 »
What a good idea. Cold fusion in a sausage to make it self cooking.
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #15 on: 16/05/2011 17:26:58 »
What a good idea. Cold fusion in a sausage to make it self cooking.

Somebody seems to have beat you to it  :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-heating_food_packaging
 

Offline katesisco

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« Reply #16 on: 16/05/2011 17:44:46 »
NOW would be a good time, right NOW. 
The sun is demonstrating its connection to all matter, and 33 day cycle seems to be the sun's core rotation.  And there is that pyramid arrangement in the May sky to consider. 
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #17 on: 16/05/2011 17:55:50 »

The sun is demonstrating its connection to all matter, and 33 day cycle seems to be the sun's core rotation.  And there is that pyramid arrangement in the May sky to consider.
 

Er, pardon me, but what does that have to do with cold fusion? Come to think of it, what does it have to do with anything?
 

Offline yor_on

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« Reply #18 on: 16/05/2011 22:42:51 »
Well, Rossi is interesting and we had some Swedish scientists checking on him. Hopefully he will allow us to test his contraption in Sweden (University) as those visiting didn't find him to be a 'crank'. The problem being that there is so many clever ways to falsify a result if that's what you're starting from.

There was some guy traveling around with a little box geting a input of 200W delivering 400W if I remember right. Nobody could understand how it did it as he refused to explain until someone realized that he was using 'spikes' and then building them up inside it, of too short time to make any normal circuits register it, and without any 'breakers' going off.
« Last Edit: 16/05/2011 22:46:40 by yor_on »
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #19 on: 16/05/2011 23:00:57 »
What's the Swedish equivalent of baloney?
 

Offline imatfaal

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« Reply #20 on: 16/05/2011 23:09:46 »
Let's all hold off until he publishes in October.  I now really want it to be true - not for the amazing benefits it could bring mankind, but to watch geezer eat his words and not baloney!
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #21 on: 16/05/2011 23:23:45 »
Matt,

Obviously, you misunderstand. My interest was entirely culinary.  ;D
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #22 on: 16/05/2011 23:34:42 »
There is an expression in the US that might also be applicable. I don't remember a UK equivalent.

"If it looks like a duck, and it walks like a duck, it's probably a duck."
 

Offline imatfaal

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« Reply #23 on: 16/05/2011 23:52:43 »
There is a variant that unfortunately might well apply to Ing Rossi - "if it looks like a duck and QUACKS like a duck..." and I worry that Rossi may well turn out to be a bit quackers
 

Offline yor_on

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« Last Edit: 18/05/2011 03:45:05 by yor_on »
 

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