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Offline yoker

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What is Really Behind the Gulf War Syndrome?
« on: 05/04/2006 22:05:11 »
(Originally published on Trinicenter.org: newbielink:http://www.trinicenter.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1236 [nonactive] )

Key words:
Gulf War Syndrome, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Allergy, Eczema, Asthma, Diabetes type 2, Multiple Sclerosis, Psoriasis, Lupus

14 years after the Gulf War I and still no progress in solving a problem which ruined the life of about 200 000 people. I hope this analysis helps at least to clear the mist around this problem.


1. What is Gulf War Syndrome?

Gulf War Syndrome (GWS) is a cluster of about 20 symptoms like: chronic fatigue, aching joints, memory loss, sleep problems, skin rashes, allergy, night sweets, depression. For the complete list see for example newbielink:http://www.immed.org/signsympt.htm [nonactive] (second picture). A person with GWS usually develops several of them. GWS is very frequent (about 90%) among veterans who were the first ones to enter Kuwait and Iraq, but it is less frequent among people who entered Iraq later and is almost unknown among people who were not on Iraq soil, like ship crews.


2. What is NOT a GWS symptom: Cancer, leukaemia


3. Possible causes of GWS.

Following ones were suggested as possible causes of GWS:
(see for example: newbielink:http://www.gulfwarvets.com/testimony_2.htm [nonactive])

- Physical substances like particles from the smoke of burning oil wells or fine sand
- Vaccines (Anthrax vaccine for example)
- Chemical substances (insecticides, chemical weapons, detonated Iraqi chemical stores)
- Radiation (depleted uranium)
- Contagious disease

What about family members? Many of them have the same problems since veterans returned home. (See for example 2nd paragraph in: newbielink:http://www.gulfwarvets.com/treatment2.htm [nonactive]) Are their problems caused by something else? This is impossible. In family members we can rule out "physical substances" and "vaccines" - they were not breathing smoke from burning oil wells or sand particles and got no vaccines.

What about "toxic chemical substances" and "radiation"? Some veterans say: "We took some souvenirs from Iraq". But there are several serious questions like:

How many veterans took a souvenir?
Were these souvenirs really contaminated?
How much were they contaminated?
Were all the sick family members in contact with such a souvenir?

People, who talk about chemical substances or radiation (like that ones with Depleted Uranium theory) as the cause of GWS ignore these questions. They also ignore that there is a big difference to have at home a contaminated 'souvenir' and living weeks or months in an environment where EVERYTHING is contaminated like this 'souvenir' - the amounts of chemicals / radiation they get are incomparable and so should be the health effects: family members should have only minor or no problems, but it is not so.

I hope you feel now that it is very unlikely that chemical substances or radiation caused GWS in family members.

The last possibility - contagious disease - can explain very simply what happened: during the first months in Iraq veterans got the disease and developed symptoms and when they returned home they infected their family members who developed these symptoms too.


4. Treatment of GWS

There are many people who talk about GWS and present theories, but there are few, who were successful in the treatment of sick veterans. Probably the best known is dr. Nicolson ( newbielink:http://www.immed.org [nonactive]). Also dr. Hyman was successful (see newbielink:http://www.gulfwarvets.com/treat.htm [nonactive]). They have different theories, but they both use long-term antibiotic treatment. Many of their patients with GWS returned back to normal - see for example: newbielink:http://www.immed.org/publications/gulf_war_illness/jamdox.html [nonactive] .

Because antibiotics have no effect in cases of intoxication or radiation, successful treatment with antibiotics is confirmation of contagious disease as the cause of GWS. We can even say what kind of disease it is: a bacterial one!

The sad thing is that people who recover usually develop GWS symptoms later again (1). It's no surprise this happens: they simply get the infection from their family members, or the treatment was not long enough to clear the infection from the body.


5. What disease is behind GWS symptoms ?

Dr. Nicolson says GWS is caused by mycoplasmas. They are/were present in about 50% of GWS veterans. Dr. Nicolson tests you for mycoplasmas and it seems, that you are/were accepted for treatment only if you test positive for them. This is a little strange: what about the rest of veterans who have not mycoplasmas? They have same symptoms, but a different disease? And there is one more problem with mycoplasmas: they usually need immune system to be impaired before they can invade the body.

Dr. Hyman does not test mycoplasmas, but "bacteria in urine". This means, that he probably accepts for treatment also people without mycoplasmas. And he is successful too!

Are there more diseases behind GWS? It does not seem to be likely, because there are not two (or more) different sets of GWS symptoms - anybody can develop any (new for him) symptom from the cluster of about 20. It's a quite common thing.

It seems that not mycoplasmas, but some other disease is responsible for GWS symptoms. It must be a contagious disease which impairs immune system. This can explain, why there is a delay between the development of GWS symptoms and development of mycoplasmal (and other) opportunistic infections: immune system must be impaired first and it takes some time. This also explains why antibiotic treatment is also effective for people without mycoplasmas and it also explains, why there is only one set of GWS symptoms.

Let us go back to GWS symptoms.


6. GWS and CFS

GWS was defined for the first time for Gulf War I veterans, but the same cluster of symptoms have people with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) - see for example Figure 1. in: newbielink:http://www.gulfwarvets.com/article24.htm [nonactive]. It seems that GWS and CFS are caused by the same disease, but there are some differences:

A. It is quite sure that GWS is contagious, but CFS does not seem to be. People with CFS almost never have somebody with CFS among their family members, friends or co-workers.

B. Outbreak of so many GWS cases never happened to CFS, but cases when several people got CFS at the same time were very rarely reported.

C. Problems GWS veterans suffer from are usually a lot more serious than problems of people with CFS. (For example: People with CFS sometimes talk about suicide, but almost never commit it. Among people with GWS suicide is rather frequent.)


7. What happened during the Gulf War I ?

(Up to here everything was only facts. From here on it is also a little speculation to explain facts in the most simple and natural way.)

We already know, that GWS is a bacterial disease. Where it came from?

A. Endemic disease.
There is nothing to support it: People in Iraq, Kuwait or SA have no such problems (2) and US soldiers, who are in Iraq now, do not suffer from GWS problems. And how to explain CFS?

B. New 'natural' disease.
It does not seem to be a new disease, because it has the same set of symptoms like the disease which causes CFS. (Development of a new contagious disease is not an everyday event: it usually occurs once in many hundreds of years.)

C. A 'man-made' disease.
This seems much more likely than previous options. They took a disease (probably the one which causes CFS) and modified it genetically. This could explain the higher morbidity of GWS - it was designed so. But there is another mystery, you are probably already thinking about: If GWS spreads to family members, why it usually does not spread to other people creating a GWS epidemic? Diseases change their properties (3), but could the change be so fast?

D. GWS is CFS.
Iraqis decided to use the disease which causes CFS as a biological weapon. To prepare big amounts of the agent they spread it quickly from one being to another (maybe animals). When a disease spreads quickly its symptoms usually became more serious (4). This explains, why GWS symptoms are more serious than CFS symptoms. When the disease spread from veterans to family members, it was spreading again in its natural way, it means more slowly than in Iraqi laboratory. This explains why family members have usually less problems (5) and some of them are (or at least seem to be) healthy. As the infection spreads from veterans' family members to other people its morbidity decreases in every transmission: people have usually smaller and smaller problems. Only small part of infected people have big problems - usually diagnosed as CFS. This is why we see no GWS epidemic and why CFS does not seem to be contagious.

I think the last option explains best what happened.


8. The disease responsible for CFS/GWS symptoms

We are looking for a slowly developing bacterial disease which:

- Affects the nerve system in a very flexible way to explain the weird set of ever changing nerve problems like fatigue, pain, itching, or memory loss which come and go without any reason.

- Impairs immune system and allows opportunistic infections to develop.

The disease which fits best these criteria is leprosy. (9)


9. Consequences

Because less than about 1% of the infected people are diagnosed as CFS patients, the disease behind CFS/GWS must be frequent in US/Europe. Where are all these infected people who are not diagnosed as CFS? There are several possibilities:

A. They have CFS symptoms, but for some reason they do not get CFS diagnose. (6)

B. Their CFS symptoms are not serious enough to get CFS diagnose.

C. They get a different diagnose: a disease with unknown cause, unreliable treatment and uncertain outlook. Some of diseases which fit these criteria: Allergy, Eczema, Asthma, Diabetes type 2 (7),  Multiple Sclerosis, Psoriasis, Lupus.

D. They have (almost) no problems and can live normal life. (But - like all the infected people - they spread the infection.)

The disease behind CFS/GWS is probably the most frequent contagious disease in US/Europe. The Gulf War I veterans differ from the rest of the infected people only by severity of symptoms.


10. If it is leprosy, why we see no face deformations ?

In Europe during the last 1000 years people with face deformations were effectively separated from the society. This stopped spreading of the types of leprosy which cause face deformations, but spreading of leprosy without face deformations was not restricted, because these people were usually not identified.

Just like people were prefering during thousands of years apple-trees with bigger apples to get apple-trees with big apples, we in Europe were prefering leprosy without face deformations and we got leprosy without face deformations. (4)


11. Why the disease behind CFS/GWS was not yet identified ?

The disease behind CFS/GWS is a problem for a part of society and a menace for the rest of it, but for pharmaceutical companies and others who benefit from health care this disease is a large steady flow of income. As you may already know, companies are powerful enough to enforce what they want. (See for example articles on newbielink:http://www.globalresearch.ca [nonactive] or comments on xymphora blog.)

Anyway, in a society, where it seems that new diseases (8) are developed and released into the society this article should not be a big surprise.


12.  What you can do

If you have problems that match CFS/GWS symptoms (or you have a disease like diabetes type 2), you yourself - without the support of doctors - can test what was said here:

1. Leprosy impairs temperature sensitibility in finger tips. This can be tested by a simple test: Prepare one cup with cold water and other with warm water (about 50 degr. C). Ask somebody to take a small brush and sit by you. You must close your eyes(!) and he takes the brush, puts it to one of these cups and touches one of your finger tips. You have to say if it was cold or warm. This must be repeated several times. Health person answers immediately and correctly. If you are not quite sure your answer is immediate, try another part of finger - there the temperature sensibility is not impaired. This is a standard leprosy test.

2. Respire alcohol vapour (for example from boiling wine) about 10 minutes a day. This clears infection from respiratory tract and the nerve related problems (like fatigue) and secondary infections should disappear in few days. Allergy and skin problems remain. (Regular respiring of alcohol probably prevents spreading of the disease to other persons.) If you are successful, do not forget about other members of your family - even if they say they have no problems.


Reliable information about GWS:
newbielink:http://www.immed.org [nonactive] - IMMED: The Institute for Molecular Medicine
newbielink:http://www.gulfwarvets.com [nonactive] - American Gulf War Veterans Association (see other links here)


************************************
NOTES:

(1) Dr. Nicolson was optimistic about the treatment of GWS in the mid 90ties, but since the GWS symptoms started to reappear after successful antibiotic treatment, he knew he was fighting a lost battle: antibiotic treatment cannot be effective when used for only one person surrounded by other sick people.

(2) I heard about people from Kuwait who had the same problems like GW veterans (they were looking for health care in US), but their problems also started after the beginning of Gulf War I.

(3) Properties of a disease can change. You probably know that syphilis started to spread in Europe in the 16th century. First it was a terrible disease, which destroyed the body during few years. Later it was less morbid and people lived 20, 30, or more years. Now about 50% of cases (in Europe) have no symptoms: these people are usually diagnosed by routine tests when accepted to hospital (accident, another disease or pregnancy).

(4) This is a too complex problem to be explained here. Please, study „The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins, Parasite Rex by Carl Zimmer, or other, where Darwin theory is used to explain behaviour and properties of animals.

(5) Problems of veterans' family members are usually diagnosed as CFS.

(6) For example: They have CFS symptoms only short time (e.g. less than 6 months) - or -  They have only one of CFS symptoms - or - They have previous psychiatric diagnose - or - Their doctor does not know CFS. CFS diagnose is different in each country and somewhere it is unknown.

(7) Leprosy and diabetes are the most frequent causes of loss of fingers and legs due to neurological problems. See for example National Diabetes Information Clearinghouse ( newbielink:http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/neuropathies/ [nonactive]) for Diabetic Neuropathies. The reason why patients with diabetes loose fingers and legs is not explained!

(8) See for example L. Horowitz: The Avian Flu Fright is Politically Timed, newbielink:http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20051012&articleId=1071 [nonactive]

(9) Corresponding unspecific symptoms of CFS/GWS and Leprosy:
- Malaise.
- Nasal discharge and partial obstruction.
- Noticeably lower temperature of extremities.
- Loss of hair, eyebrows.
- Night sweats.
- Dry eyes.
- Painful joints.
- Low grade fewers.
- Rash.
- Digestion problems.
- Strange course of remises and relapses in CFS/GWS patients is typical for leprosy.
- Alergy problems in CFS/GWS: Problems related with mycobacteria infections are more result of immune reactions of the body, than the direct influence of bacteria.
- Suffering (without any visible cause) experienced by many CFS/GWS patients is similar to suffering of not curred long-term leprosy patients.



 

sharkeyandgeorge

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Re: What is Really Behind the Gulf War Syndrome?
« Reply #1 on: 06/04/2006 15:38:38 »
there was a interesting thread on tns a while ago that linked gws with sugar substitute ill see if i can find it and post it here

J.B.S Haldane on the perforated eardrums which were a consequence of his pressure experiments "the drum generally heals up; and if a hole remains in it, although one is somewhat deaf, one can blow tobacco smoke out of  the ear in question, which is a social accomplishment".
 

sharkeyandgeorge

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Re: What is Really Behind the Gulf War Syndrome?
« Reply #2 on: 06/04/2006 15:48:08 »
sorry im not sure how to link to it but the thread was
aspartame becomes formaldehyde!
type it in the search to find it

J.B.S Haldane on the perforated eardrums which were a consequence of his pressure experiments "the drum generally heals up; and if a hole remains in it, although one is somewhat deaf, one can blow tobacco smoke out of  the ear in question, which is a social accomplishment".
 

Offline yoker

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Re: What is Really Behind the Gulf War Syndrome?
« Reply #3 on: 06/04/2006 20:52:17 »
To:  Sharkeyandgeorge

Yes, there is a lot of theories, but aspartame cannot explain why:
- about 70% of veterans' spouses have same problems
- many veterans returned back to normal after long-term antibiotic treatment.

Sorry.
 

another_someone

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Re: What is Really Behind the Gulf War Syndrome?
« Reply #4 on: 07/04/2006 16:47:58 »
Sorry, but I see a serious inconsistency in your hypothesis.

You suggest that early Gulf veterans who returned to their families created a reservoir of disease within their family, and consequently keep getting reinfected.

You do not explain why such a reservoir of disease does not exist within the Iraqi civilian population?

The only way you could argue that American soldiers could be infected by the disease, and not Iraqi civilians, is if the disease was not contagious, but was introduced by some other means than simple contact – but that could not account for why the veterans families might have contracted what you believe is the same disease.

Is it not possible that the families, rather than actually suffering from any contagious disease, are actually suffering from stress related symptoms caused by the stress of caring for their returning husbands, and maybe consequently also have an immune system that is mildly impaired by depression and stress?



George
 

Offline yoker

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Re: What is Really Behind the Gulf War Syndrome?
« Reply #5 on: 08/04/2006 00:37:44 »
To: Another_someone

Q. "You suggest that early Gulf veterans who returned to their families created a reservoir of disease within their family, and consequently keep getting reinfected."
A. Yes. Only "keep getting" is not quite exact: I never heard about repeated treatment with antibiotics (and repeated reinfection).

Q. "You do not explain why such a reservoir of disease does not exist within the Iraqi civilian population?"
A. I think that GWS was a biological weapon developped by Iraquis and used at the very beginning of the war.  The target were the coalition forces - there were no Iraquis there at that moment. (But as I said, there were some people in Kuwait and SA who had such problems.)

Q. "The only way you could argue that American soldiers could be infected by the disease, and not Iraqi civilians, is if the disease was not contagious, but was introduced by some other means than simple contact - but that could not account for why the veterans families might have contracted what you believe is the same disease."
A. The Iraqui army probably used grenades to spread the agent among coalition forces, but this agent was spreading from person to person later. In case of biological weapon it MUST be done this way, because you cannot infect some people and send them to contact the enemy soldiers and transfer the disease to them.

Q. Is it not possible that the families, rather than actually suffering from any contagious disease, are actually suffering from stress related symptoms caused by the stress of caring for their returning husbands, and maybe consequently also have an immune system that is mildly impaired by depression and stress?
A. There is nothing to support it: Why family members have the SAME symptoms like veterans? Why all other depressed and stressed people do not develop CFS/GWS? ("Post traumatic stress syndrome" was the label doctors tried to use for the veterans problems first, but all veterans say that the Gulf War I was a very easy war compared with Vietnam war or WWII in the Pacific. And there were no veterans from these two wars who developped GWS.)
 

another_someone

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Re: What is Really Behind the Gulf War Syndrome?
« Reply #6 on: 08/04/2006 05:18:51 »
quote:
Originally posted by yoker

To: Another_someone

A. I think that GWS was a biological weapon developped by Iraquis and used at the very beginning of the war.  The target were the coalition forces - there were no Iraquis there at that moment. (But as I said, there were some people in Kuwait and SA who had such problems.)

A. The Iraqui army probably used grenades to spread the agent among coalition forces, but this agent was spreading from person to person later. In case of biological weapon it MUST be done this way, because you cannot infect some people and send them to contact the enemy soldiers and transfer the disease to them.




But it still holds true that if, once the US troops were infected, if they continued to be infectious, then they should also have infected Iraqi civilians they later came in contact with, and these Iraqi civilians would then have been a reservoir of infection for future troops and civilians.  The only way one could argue to the contrary is if these people were shipped out of the war zone before they ever got into Iraq – is this what actually happened?  My understanding is that most of the people with GWS developed most of the symptoms some time after coming home, and had relatively few symptoms while they were still out in the field – am I wrong in this understanding?

The problem, always with biological weapons (which is why they have never been deployed in modern warfare) is not how to infect people, but how to stop the infection getting out of control, and infecting your own people.  Chemical weapons are far more useful in that respect, because they are naturally self limiting (although both chemical and biological weapons are very difficult to tactically deploy in a fast moving battlefield, and have only really been used against substantially stationary targets).

quote:


Q. Is it not possible that the families, rather than actually suffering from any contagious disease, are actually suffering from stress related symptoms caused by the stress of caring for their returning husbands, and maybe consequently also have an immune system that is mildly impaired by depression and stress?
A. There is nothing to support it: Why family members have the SAME symptoms like veterans? Why all other depressed and stressed people do not develop CFS/GWS? ("Post traumatic stress syndrome" was the label doctors tried to use for the veterans problems first, but all veterans say that the Gulf War I was a very easy war compared with Vietnam war or WWII in the Pacific. And there were no veterans from these two wars who developped GWS.)



CFS is a very vague diagnosis (I am not even sure it was something that was an available diagnosis at the time of the Vietnam war), and it may well be that the same vague symptoms may be diagnosed under different categories depending upon what people are looking for.  Since people treating Gulf War Syndrome are already looking for a particular type of diagnosis, it might be more likely that they would pigeon hole the depression of the war veteran's families in the category they are already looking at.  It may also be that many of the manifestations of the depression itself may be highly variable, and may naturally display symptoms in sympathy with their husbands, where if their husbands had very different symptoms, so too would the depression that the wives display manifest itself differently (i.e. depression is by its nature a physiological disorder, and subject to psychosomatic manifestations).



George
 

Offline yoker

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Re: What is Really Behind the Gulf War Syndrome?
« Reply #7 on: 08/04/2006 12:28:44 »
" ... most of the people with GWS developed most of the symptoms some time after coming home, and had relatively few symptoms while they were still out in the field ... "
A. Yes. The progress of the disease is slow.

"But it still holds true that if, once the US troops were infected, if they continued to be infectious, then they should also have infected Iraqi civilians they later came in contact with, and these Iraqi civilians would then have been a reservoir of infection for future troops and civilians."
A. Well, how many veterans were living in one flat or working in one office with Iraqi civilians during a period of SEVERAL MONTHS? Only a FEW - if any. The transfer from person to person is not easy.
A. "... a reservoir of infection ..." - What I say, is that such a reservoir is inside the whole Europe/US society and only part of the infected people have bigger problems like: CFS, diabetes type 2, multiple sclerosis, allergy, eczema, lupus. It of course can be a reservoir of this infection also in the Iraqi population, but you cannot expect epidemic of GWS, like it is not in US - as I explained, the virulence of the disease decreases during every transfer to other person: 70% of veterans' wives, many children, but few veterans' coworkes and sometimes some other people like a man saying something like: "... I had a girl friend who had friends among Gulf War veterans and now I have problems very similar to GWS ...".

"... I am not even sure it was something [like CFS] that was an available diagnosis at the time of the Vietnam war ..."
A. Yes, CFS diagnose did not exist during Vietnam war or WWII, but it's quite sure there were not 200 000 veterans with such problems.

You are pushing that veterans/their family members have depression and their symptoms like rash, low grade fevers, aching joints are caused by this depression. Good. But how do you explain, that these symptoms disappeared after antibiotic treatment?
 

another_someone

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Re: What is Really Behind the Gulf War Syndrome?
« Reply #8 on: 08/04/2006 22:20:37 »
quote:
Originally posted by yoker

" ... most of the people with GWS developed most of the symptoms some time after coming home, and had relatively few symptoms while they were still out in the field ... "
A. Yes. The progress of the disease is slow.




Well, this goes back to my original statement about the lack of utility of biological weapons in modern warfare – it's a pretty useless weapon if it only incapacitates the enemy after he has gone home.

quote:


"But it still holds true that if, once the US troops were infected, if they continued to be infectious, then they should also have infected Iraqi civilians they later came in contact with, and these Iraqi civilians would then have been a reservoir of infection for future troops and civilians."
A. Well, how many veterans were living in one flat or working in one office with Iraqi civilians during a period of SEVERAL MONTHS? Only a FEW - if any. The transfer from person to person is not easy.




But does this not hold true for the original opportunity for infection – where would the troops have been exposed to the original agent over such a prolonged period of time, or in such very high concentrations, as to become infected in the first place, but to become infected in a sub-clinical manner, where the full blown disease is not immediately obvious?

You argument of a grenade would either have had to be extremely small, and only exposed a very few people for a very short duration of time; or would have had to be of such size that it could scarcely have gone unnoticed when it detonated.

quote:


A. "... a reservoir of infection ..." - What I say, is that such a reservoir is inside the whole Europe/US society and only part of the infected people have bigger problems like: CFS, diabetes type 2, multiple sclerosis, allergy, eczema, lupus. It of course can be a reservoir of this infection also in the Iraqi population, but you cannot expect epidemic of GWS, like it is not in US - as I explained, the virulence of the disease decreases during every transfer to other person: 70% of veterans' wives, many children, but few veterans' coworkes and sometimes some other people like a man saying something like: "... I had a girl friend who had friends among Gulf War veterans and now I have problems very similar to GWS ...".




Even if one did accept the notion of an infectious disease; a disease that has poor human to human transmission properties, while having high virulence upon first contact, does not sound like a disease that has a long history in the human population (e.g. I think you mentioned leprosy), but rather would be more typical of a disease that is native to wildlife, and has crossed a species barrier to infect humans (hence its difficulty in attaining human to human transmission).  Any disease that has a long history within the human population certainly could not weaken upon human to human transmission, otherwise it would long have died out.

quote:


"... I am not even sure it was something [like CFS] that was an available diagnosis at the time of the Vietnam war ..."
A. Yes, CFS diagnose did not exist during Vietnam war or WWII, but it's quite sure there were not 200 000 veterans with such problems.




I agree that there were not 200,000 veterans with exactly the symptoms of GWS, but there is no doubt that there was much illness in the aftermath of war, there always is.

Going back further, one can look at the Spanish flu that came about in the aftermath of WWI, which actually killed more people than the war itself did, and probably originated amongst the soldiers in the trenches, but because the censors were wary of reporting widespread illness amongst the troops, the first the public heard about it was from people coming down with the disease in Spain.

I also remember seeing a survey recently about widespread lifelong health problems associated with veterans of the American Civil war (I am not talking about problems associated with physical injury, but increased vulnerability to illness of people who came back from the war apparently healthy).

quote:


You are pushing that veterans/their family members have depression and their symptoms like rash, low grade fevers, aching joints are caused by this depression. Good. But how do you explain, that these symptoms disappeared after antibiotic treatment?




Firstly, I am not trying to argue that I know for a fact the exact cause of every symptom classed with GWS, I am merely saying that it makes no sense at all to believe that it was caused by deliberate Iraqi action (the nature of the illness could not benefit the Iraqi's in any way, and there is no evidence that they had the technical capability to achieve such an outcome – you seem to be saying that the Iraqi's, while suffering the effects of sanctions, and showing all the symptoms of serial incompetence, yet manage to outstrip every Western nation in their achievements in military use of biological weapons – it does not sound like a plausible scenario).

I am saying that the families of war veterans will, without question, suffer high levels of stress and depression.  This does not mean that they cannot suffer in other ways as well, but one must without a doubt expect that there will be some health consequences expected purely from this source.

The fact that the symptoms disappeared when treated by antibiotics could mean one of three things.  It could simply be a placebo effect – has this been eliminated as a possibility?  It could be that the disease is itself a genuine bacterial infection, but the infection was opportunistic, and brought about by the depressed state of the persons immune system caused by the general state of depression of the person.  Finally, it could be a genuine infections in the manner you describe (whatever the original source of that infection might be).

The other thing to bear in mind is that soldiers returning from war have always brought home disease with them.

The most obvious source of disease brought home by returning troops are STD's, but this is by no means the only reason troops bring back infection.

In the past, troops being sent to war generally had a higher mortality from natural disease than from enemy action.

War is always an unhygienic activity, since dodging bullets is generally regarded as more important than personal cleanliness (I am not saying that troops don't care about cleanliness – but if they have to go down a sewer in order to get behind the enemy, they don't think twice about how unhealthy sewers might be, they think more about how unhealthy the enemies bullets might be).  Furthermore, troops are often being sent into areas of the world where they are exposed to disease causing agents exist that the locals, having been exposed to the diseases since childhood, have developed a natural immunity to, but the incoming troops have no natural immunity to.  All of these reasons mean that troops will commonly bring back disease, without any need to speculate about deliberate acts of biological warfare.



George
 

Offline yoker

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Re: What is Really Behind the Gulf War Syndrome?
« Reply #9 on: 11/04/2006 19:06:57 »
"... it's a pretty useless weapon if it only incapacitates the enemy after he has gone home."
There was no way to win conventional war against US and after an attack with chemical or biological weapons with 100 000 or so dead coalition soldiers US would have used nuclear bombs to wipe out Iraq (including Sadam). A biological weapon with a slow progress was probably the only way how to return the blow.

"... but to become infected in a sub-clinical manner, where the full blown disease is not immediately obvious?"
Sub-clinical? You are infected or not. And even if it takes months to be infected from a person, it can be very fast if done artifitially. The progress of the disease is a different thing - some are fast (plague), some slow (syphilis).

"Even if one ..."
Please, read my post again and study what I suggested (like "Parasite Rex").

"It could simply be a placebo effect ..."
No. The progress of recovery (dr. Nicolson) was corresponding with the presence and amount of mycoplasmas.

"... the infection was opportunistic, and brought about by the depressed state of the persons immune system caused by the general state of depression of the person."

- This is a nonsence spread by doctors. They can endlessly (and unsuccessfully) treat the secondary problem. They need patients to profit from them. Healthy patient is their nightmare.
- In case of GWI veterans doctors were talking that "everything was in their heads" in early nineties. The pressure of veterans and the evidence of successful antibiotic treatment resulted in acceptance of the Gulf War Syndrome diagnosis.
 

Offline Shakespirit

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Re: What is Really Behind the Gulf War Syndrome?
« Reply #10 on: 23/05/2006 17:08:40 »
If I recall correctly, Anthrax shots were not the only experiments performed on American soldiers during the Gulf War by our ex-Nazi Mad Scientists.

Many American soldiers were also given untested shots to neutralize the effects of possible Nerve Gas missiles.

And, some say, most of the official records of those exposed to the GWS were intentionally destroyed at Oklahoma City, during the bombing of the FBI Building. (By Timothy McVeigh or by a higher level of Neo-Nazi Mad Scientists, who also developed the Anthrax spores used in error on News Reporters after 911 to intimidate same and then tried to blame Sadam Heusein in Iraq.)

Has anyone else ever developed a one direction truck bomb? If not, then Timothy McVeigh should receive some special award for unique bombs to destroy imcriminating, unwanted, war crime evidence.

"Follow the Reasons"
 

Offline Shakespirit

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Re: What is Really Behind the Gulf War Syndrome?
« Reply #11 on: 24/05/2006 16:59:13 »
New Theory:

Chronic Fatigue is related to depresson and the use of drugs, like Marijuana or booze, and can spread to other family members or throughout a Nation, due to the lack of hope for a solution to any consistant problem, like the present immigration, greed, and inflation problem, more corruption in politics, and the phony war in Iraq to control oil prices and to improve profits on war products.

The Future of America is not rosy, and should not be led by a known drug addict, who appears to be psychotic and surrounds himself with other power psychopaths.

The intent of our secret Neo-Nazi Party is the same as the previous Nazi Party, which survived WWII, and was re-organized by General Otto Remer, who worked for the CIA. Beware of all leaders who flaunt "Gold Eagle" lapel pins!

"Follow the Reasons"
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: What is Really Behind the Gulf War Syndrome?
« Reply #11 on: 24/05/2006 16:59:13 »

 

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