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Author Topic: What is the speed of light outside of a gravitational field?  (Read 3259 times)

Offline MikeS

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I have opened this new thread because I am told the information from the previous thread is not mainstream.  

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27/05/2011 12:52:23

Quote from: MikeS on 27/05/2011 08:35:46
"This does however, fit in with quantum mechanics idea of energy of the vacuum.

If energy can spontaneously appear from the vacuum it is doing so outside of time.  In which case it must be instantaneous.  Therefore, it follows that outside of a gravitational field a photon travels instantaneous".


Quote from JP on 27/05/2011 12.52
"This does not fit with quantum mechanics or any other mainstream theory.  If it's your own theory, please state it as such and don't mislead people into thinking it's mainstream.  If it's your own theory, please keep it to the New Theories section, as yor_on suggested".

1)As I understand it, quantum mechanics does allow for energy to spontaneously appear from the vacuum.
2)According to the big bang theory this was the source of the energy for the big bang.
3)According to the big bang theory time did not exist before the big bang, nor did gravity.
4)If time and gravity did not exist then the appearance of photons took place by definition outside of time (and gravity).  Outside of time is instantaneous.

I believe the first three points above are generally regarded as mainstream?
In which case how can you deny the fourth which is a natural outcome of the others?



 

Offline CliffordK

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What is the speed of light outside of a gravitational field?
« Reply #1 on: 29/05/2011 17:48:56 »
Are you equating "Gravitational Field" = "Space"

And everything within the Universe has gravity?

In which case, this is speculation of what happened before the Big Bang. 

One thing to note.  The concept of before and after indicate a passage of time.  And, thus you are not truly in a state without time.
 

Offline Phractality

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What is the speed of light outside of a gravitational field?
« Reply #2 on: 30/05/2011 01:29:47 »
Units of distance and time are allowed to be different in different places and for different observers; but by definition, the speed of light in a vacuum is 299,792,458 metres per second everywhere and for all observers. At least, that is the definition that applies to our universe. If you postulate a different universe, whose light leaks into our universe, it is unlikely that distance and time in the two universes are comparable to one another. If we could compare them, they would not be different universes.
 

Offline JP

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What is the speed of light outside of a gravitational field?
« Reply #3 on: 30/05/2011 10:10:18 »
I believe the first three points above are generally regarded as mainstream?
In which case how can you deny the fourth which is a natural outcome of the others?
We can break this down point by point.

Quote
1)As I understand it, quantum mechanics does allow for energy to spontaneously appear from the vacuum.
This is mainstream science.  Remember that the vacuum only exists within our universe.  Before the big bang it's a free-for all of guesses as to what existed.

Quote
2)According to the big bang theory this was the source of the energy for the big bang.
This isn't mainstream.  We have theories that only get so close to the big bang, and we have no theories that go up to or before the big bang.  Since we can't actually say anything about what existed before the big bang, we can't assume that a vacuum existed for any of this to occur.

Quote
3)According to the big bang theory time did not exist before the big bang, nor did gravity.
This is partly mainstream.  Our concepts of time and gravity are based on measurements within our universe and using these observations to infer what happened closer to the big bang.  Because all our theories break down at the big bang, we can't infer what happened before it, so we can't say anything about what happened before.  We can say that time and gravity didn't exist because there's no way to connect our ideas of time and gravity to whatever may or may not have existed before the big bang (if the concept of before, which implies time, even has any meaning!)

Quote
4)If time and gravity did not exist then the appearance of photons took place by definition outside of time (and gravity).  Outside of time is instantaneous.
Quote
This is not mainstream.  Photons only spontaneously appear within the fabric of our space-time.  No space-time = no photons instantly appearing.  Also, "instantaneous" assumes that time exists. 


The problem is you're assuming that we can logically infer what happened before the universe existed by making observations of our universe.  In fact, you can't do this because all our concepts about space and time break down at the big bang and can't be extended before it.  In fact, all our best theories break down before we even get to the big bang, though there's hope that future theories can push closer to it.   
 

Offline Heikki Rinnemaa

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What is the speed of light outside of a gravitational field?
« Reply #4 on: 01/07/2011 05:27:43 »
 :)

Gravitational fields = matter where is different density,,

If something goes through different density,,density brake this object speed,,,

So of cource everything which goes through matter and if matter density change then this traveller speed change also,,,

Example;
Light gomes from sun,,
- through space-matter at some speed,,(not constant actually),,near earth speed is lower
- comes to earth air-layer,,,and speed going lower,,near earth air-density is higher,,speed lower
- and when light comes to example water,,like sea,,speed get lower and stop,,

If sun can send only one light-pulse,,short kind,,few light-matter-particle,,hmm,,,i loose my thought what i want to wrote,,well,,maybe it's come back some day,,but anyway,,

Image,,what my thought is.

 :)
 

Offline MikeS

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What is the speed of light outside of a gravitational field?
« Reply #5 on: 30/07/2011 08:12:36 »
What is the speed of light outside of a gravitational field?

For there to be no gravitational field there can be no mass.  Without mass there is no gravity.  Without gravity there is no time as we know it.

Speed = distance divided by time.
Distance divided by zero is infinity.

It could be argued that distance does not exist.

But it could be argued that energy (photons) create space (distance)

From any reference frame in this scenario a photon is everywhere instantaneously.  Therefore, there is no causality.

Gravity introduces the concept of time into the universe and endows photons with a finite speed.
 

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What is the speed of light outside of a gravitational field?
« Reply #5 on: 30/07/2011 08:12:36 »

 

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