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Author Topic: Absolute truth ?  (Read 6149 times)

Offline Hadrian

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Absolute truth ?
« on: 10/04/2006 19:34:55 »
Does Absolute truth exist in this universe or not?

What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.


 

sharkeyandgeorge

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Re: Absolute truth ?
« Reply #1 on: 10/04/2006 20:02:13 »
yes

J.B.S Haldane on the perforated eardrums which were a consequence of his pressure experiments "the drum generally heals up; and if a hole remains in it, although one is somewhat deaf, one can blow tobacco smoke out of  the ear in question, which is a social accomplishment".
 

Offline Hadrian

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Re: Absolute truth ?
« Reply #2 on: 10/04/2006 20:14:03 »
quote:
Originally posted by sharkeyandgeorge

yes




Explain?

What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.
 

another_someone

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Re: Absolute truth ?
« Reply #3 on: 10/04/2006 21:55:58 »
I see two different questions here.

1)Does an absolute truth exist?
2)Can we ever know what is the absolute truth?

I am assuming, although you have not stated it as such, that you are only concerned with observational truths, since abstract logical truths can exist even in the absence of observation.



George
 

Offline Hadrian

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Re: Absolute truth ?
« Reply #4 on: 11/04/2006 09:45:14 »
Generally I just interested in peoples thoughts around this question. How one interpolates the question is in itself reviling. Of course I have a personal view of this. What we base truth on seems to brake down at the extremes. EG protons simply vanish and appear elsewhere only to disappear again or that Physics as we know it can't go beyond the singularity. How can we be certain that anything is true as we think it is?  

What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.
 

another_someone

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Re: Absolute truth ?
« Reply #5 on: 11/04/2006 18:03:08 »
quote:
Originally posted by Hadrian
How can we be certain that anything is true as we think it is?



This seems to narrow down the question to whether we can ever know what absolute observational truth is?

quote:
Originally posted by Hadrian
What we base truth on seems to brake down at the extremes. EG protons simply vanish and appear elsewhere only to disappear again or that Physics as we know it can't go beyond the singularity.


The nature of evolving knowledge, of whatever type, inevitably means that it will break down at the limits.  If the theories were not to break down at the limits, there would be no opportunity to extend the bounds of knowledge.

As for whether we can know anything beyond a singularity – I cannot see how we can logically know anything beyond a singularity; but this does not prove that singularities do, or can, exist.

By its nature, a singularity cannot have internal structure.  If it lacks internal structure then it cannot contain information, and thus cannot tell us anything about its history.

In fact, I don't believe we have shown that singularities exist.  We have shown observations that are consistent with a distant view of a singularity, but we do not have a close-up view of a supposed singularity.

Ofcourse, we can go beyond that and argue that the entire substance of science is a pragmatic interpretation of our observations of the world, and none of it can be regarded as a definition of absolute truth.



George
 

Offline Hadrian

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Re: Absolute truth ?
« Reply #6 on: 11/04/2006 20:28:52 »
It wasn’t my intention to narrow down the question. That was just one thorough I had on the matter. I wanted to hear what others thought about this. I am looking for some new thinking about this or perhaps some insights into what possibilities are now being considered.

How do get people to simply think out loud without the need to defend or disprove around here?

Perhaps if we all log on as other people we could open up and just go for it.


What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.
 

another_someone

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Re: Absolute truth ?
« Reply #7 on: 11/04/2006 21:54:30 »
quote:
Perhaps if we all log on as other people we could open up and just go for it.


Doubt it – if I logged on under another alias, I suspect I'd be sussed within the first few posts. [:)


George
« Last Edit: 12/04/2006 01:17:53 by ukmicky »
 

Offline Hadrian

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Re: Absolute truth ?
« Reply #8 on: 11/04/2006 23:52:29 »
Oh well back behind the trench again ;)

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Offline ukmicky

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Re: Absolute truth ?
« Reply #9 on: 12/04/2006 01:19:10 »

 
quote:

Doubt it – if I logged on under another alias, I suspect I'd be sussed within the first few posts. [:)


George



Nodding my head in agreement.:)

ps george i nearly edited your post by accident, i dont think i changed anything
Michael
« Last Edit: 12/04/2006 01:22:17 by ukmicky »
 

another_someone

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Re: Absolute truth ?
« Reply #10 on: 12/04/2006 03:11:38 »
quote:
Originally posted by ukmicky


 
quote:

Doubt it – if I logged on under another alias, I suspect I'd be sussed within the first few posts. [:)


George



Nodding my head in agreement.:)

ps george i nearly edited your post by accident, i dont think i changed anything
Michael



You forgot to close the square brackets on the smiley :P



George
 

Offline Dr B

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Re: Absolute truth ?
« Reply #11 on: 12/04/2006 05:21:00 »
err back on topic?

Absolute truth cannot exist if there is a possible (even if terribly unlikely) alternative explanation.  Is it possible to get rid of alternatives?

Dr B
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Offline Hadrian

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Re: Absolute truth ?
« Reply #12 on: 19/04/2006 14:55:51 »
quote:
Originally posted by Dr B

err back on topic?

Absolute truth cannot exist if there is a possible (even if terribly unlikely) alternative explanation.  Is it possible to get rid of alternatives?



Not with giving one away

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Offline rosy

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Re: Absolute truth ?
« Reply #13 on: 19/04/2006 15:28:26 »
quote:
Absolute truth cannot exist if there is a possible (even if terribly unlikely) alternative explanation. Is it possible to get rid of alternatives?

Surely the existence of absolute truth has nothing whatever to do with whether we know (or indeed can know) what that truth is?
The Earth was still (presumably) round even when many people insisted it was flat...
 

Offline Hadrian

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Re: Absolute truth ?
« Reply #14 on: 19/04/2006 15:34:32 »
So is it that truth and perception are inter-linked. Then is the best we have is that we believe it to be true or not bases on our perception of what we believe are the facts.

What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.
 

another_someone

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Re: Absolute truth ?
« Reply #15 on: 19/04/2006 18:58:10 »
quote:
Originally posted by rosy
Surely the existence of absolute truth has nothing whatever to do with whether we know (or indeed can know) what that truth is?
The Earth was still (presumably) round even when many people insisted it was flat...



Do we know the Earth is round, or is that merely belief?

All the available evidence is that the Earth is spheroid, and we cannot imagine any way in which it could be anything else and yet accord with our observations; but can we say with 100% certainty that there is absolutely no possibility of a different truth superseding our belief in the roundness of the Earth at some future date?

As to whether there can be a truth that exists without out knowledge of it – is not the very answer to this question itself merely an act of belief – can you prove that a truth exists other than the truth we believe in at any moment in time?



George
 

Offline Hadrian

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Re: Absolute truth ?
« Reply #16 on: 27/04/2006 18:06:36 »

96.334% of all statistics are made up.



:D:):D :D:):D


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Offline direkrico

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Re: Absolute truth ?
« Reply #17 on: 04/06/2006 13:26:50 »
the word "truth" is hard to define. It depends on ones belief. Searching fo the truth has been the favorite past time of man... in a good way, it makes as think... question....and confim things that we believe in... and in that way we find our personal 'truths".

enlightment
 

Offline Hadrian

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Re: Absolute truth ?
« Reply #18 on: 04/06/2006 15:08:43 »
But are they true or not?

What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.
 

Offline Titanscape

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Re: Absolute truth ?
« Reply #19 on: 13/06/2006 02:43:02 »
Truth as the highest reality can exist as the origin of the universe above time, space, matter and energy, something more real than the whole universe.

Some things in the universe are constant, such as time. No one can change history.

Titanscape
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: Absolute truth ?
« Reply #19 on: 13/06/2006 02:43:02 »

 

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