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Author Topic: Could a way of thinking be an evolutionary factor?  (Read 6100 times)

Offline Airthumbs

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A fish thinks, the food is better just at the edge of the water and thus begins the process.

A monkey thinks, There are much less trees about in this area, It would be much better if I left this place and tried to use my legs to walk instead of swing about... and so it begins.


A man thinks, the Sun, wow it's so amazing it must be magic so I will worship it... and so that begins.

Another man thinks, the Sun, I will use it's light and energy to grow my own food... yum yum.

The men live in the same place and eventually the sun magic man convinces the sun food man that unless he gives him some of his food the Sun won't come up anymore. You see the magic man was a little hungry as his magic sun failed to put food in his stomach!  The food man being a little bit naive and not having any evidence to refute his magic man companion decides it might be in his best interest to give magic man some food, just to be safe.  The magic man realises he is onto something and starts to spread the idea with the food man doing the same.....food and magic........ eventually the magic mans descendants could even tell the food men to kill eachother in the name of the magic sun...... and so it begins!

Are you a magic man or a food man?   :P

I know I am anthropomorphising here but who better to do it with then our ancestors.   ::)


 

Offline Supercryptid

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Could a way of thinking be an evolutionary factor?
« Reply #1 on: 02/07/2011 07:21:52 »
It depends on how heavily belief sets are influenced by genetics. That's probably a question that has yet to be fully answered by geneticists. I'm somewhat doubtful that a religious person and an atheist would have specific alleles that make them believe what they do (although they might have alleles that influence tendencies towards certain beliefs, perhaps).
 

Offline Airthumbs

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Could a way of thinking be an evolutionary factor?
« Reply #2 on: 02/07/2011 15:26:35 »
So it might be possible that evolution is responsible for Scientologists?  [:o)]
 

Offline grizelda

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Could a way of thinking be an evolutionary factor?
« Reply #3 on: 02/07/2011 22:44:22 »
So it might be possible that evolution is responsible for Scientologists?  [:o)]

Scientologists are responsible for their own evolution. It's called eugenics.
 

Offline Mr. Data

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Could a way of thinking be an evolutionary factor?
« Reply #4 on: 03/07/2011 00:12:30 »
I don't even fully know what a scientologist is. Could someone explain this to me?
 

Offline imatfaal

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Could a way of thinking be an evolutionary factor?
« Reply #5 on: 03/07/2011 11:16:58 »
 

Offline CliffordK

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Could a way of thinking be an evolutionary factor?
« Reply #6 on: 03/07/2011 17:49:43 »
Analysis of skull caverns indicate that hominid brains generally increased in size throughout evolution with the Homo Sapiens generally having larger brains and likely more complex language and reasoning.

And thus the questions of who are we, where did we come from, etc.

The capacity for reasoning likely gave our species a competitive advantage. 

As far as whether philosophers and religious leaders were a competitive advantage for the species as a whole, I couldn't say.  But, certainly the development of an oral tradition, history, stories, and etc did provide a competitive advantage. 
 

Offline Mr. Data

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Could a way of thinking be an evolutionary factor?
« Reply #7 on: 03/07/2011 18:09:06 »
 

Offline Airthumbs

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Could a way of thinking be an evolutionary factor?
« Reply #8 on: 03/07/2011 18:54:38 »
Mr Data, please can you define "woo woo".   ;D  The only thing I can find is from a definition given by wiktionary which is as follows; It has been suggested that "woo woo" is intended to imitate the eerie background music of sci-fi/horror films and television shows. 

So maybe this is what you meant?  :P
« Last Edit: 03/07/2011 20:00:31 by Airthumbs »
 

Offline graham.d

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Could a way of thinking be an evolutionary factor?
« Reply #9 on: 03/07/2011 20:02:39 »
Brains and communication can lead to Richard Dawkins idea of "memes" (rather that alleles) as a means of passing on and maintaining ideas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme
 

Offline Airthumbs

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Could a way of thinking be an evolutionary factor?
« Reply #10 on: 03/07/2011 20:26:51 »
Brains and communication can lead to Richard Dawkins idea of "memes" (rather that alleles) as a means of passing on and maintaining ideas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme

Having read the book The Selfish Gene some years ago and being in total agreement with R.Dawkins this is where the seed must have been sown for my idea..  The God Delusion is not too bad either although does not cover things like memes.
 

Offline Airthumbs

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Could a way of thinking be an evolutionary factor?
« Reply #11 on: 04/07/2011 02:17:38 »
Scientologists are responsible for their own evolution. It's called eugenics.

I don't suppose you are related to Hitler in anyway are you grizelda? (I cannot tell from your statement whether you support this or not)?

Before anyone jumps on me with large hobnailed boots, eugenics was a favored past time of this dictator. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics
« Last Edit: 04/07/2011 02:25:04 by Airthumbs »
 

Offline grizelda

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Could a way of thinking be an evolutionary factor?
« Reply #12 on: 04/07/2011 11:40:12 »
All religions do eugenics. Including the godless religion of political correctness. They interfere with the selection of mates through demands to be satisfied before permission to marry in the religion. Corollary demands are language, political affiliation, race, social status, economic status, etc. which must be satisfied to qualify for say, government jobs, access to capital and other economic effects which can make a particular mating untenable. This interference is directed by the desire to breed a populace which is supportive of and commanded by the administration, to the point of slavery. The result of this has been that most religions have disappeared in religious wars of extinction, fought by suicide battalions of devolved zombies.
 

Offline Airthumbs

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Could a way of thinking be an evolutionary factor?
« Reply #13 on: 04/07/2011 13:49:04 »
Here here, Griz.  Very eloquently put.  So if a way of thinking was a factor of evolution then at some point there should be a new divergent species.  Given that in some species evolution can take place within a very shot time frame I wonder at what point we should expect some kind of genetic marker that can show this within the current human population?
 

Offline granpa

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Could a way of thinking be an evolutionary factor?
« Reply #14 on: 04/07/2011 18:52:44 »
another word for magical thinking would be 'foolishness'.

reason is the opposite of foolishness.

you may think foolishness is rampant now but it was even worse before we domesticated ourselves.

rationality requires objectivity

objectivity is the willingness to accept the truth whether it is what we want it to be or not.
 

Offline grizelda

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Could a way of thinking be an evolutionary factor?
« Reply #15 on: 04/07/2011 23:09:17 »
Here here, Griz.  Very eloquently put.  So if a way of thinking was a factor of evolution then at some point there should be a new divergent species.  Given that in some species evolution can take place within a very shot time frame I wonder at what point we should expect some kind of genetic marker that can show this within the current human population?

Since only nature can do evolution (since 3 billion years) any eugenically modified humans are less fit for their environment, except for geologically insignificant periods. Competition will always champion the human species selected by nature. Of course, political correctness insists on calling the eugenically modified humans "victims" and taxes the unmodified humans to help them survive.
 
 

Offline Airthumbs

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Could a way of thinking be an evolutionary factor?
« Reply #16 on: 05/07/2011 03:14:50 »
Since only nature can do evolution (since 3 billion years) any eugenically modified humans are less fit for their environment, except for geologically insignificant periods. Competition will always champion the human species selected by nature. Of course, political correctness insists on calling the eugenically modified humans "victims" and taxes the unmodified humans to help them survive.

Ok, so in our little story we have reached a conclusion.  Magic man and Food man realise that they both got exactly what they wanted.  In the process of doing this they have achieved something unique to the history of the planet in that they have managed to alter there own environment, atmospheric composition, global temperature, and huge levels of toxicity and what can only be described as parasitical destruction of the worlds natural resources.  looking at each other Magic man and Food man deduce they now face the biggest challenge in history.  Not only must they both somehow survive but they must also try to undo the damage they have both done to the planet through their ignorance and greed.  Food man turns around to magic man and says, "hey guess what, I got a little kinda magic, I can alter DNA and mess about with it making changes in the way we are."  Magic man responds, "well that's dangerous and I am not sure if that's the sort of thing I agree with!"  Food man replies, well to be honest I thought it might be a little bit dangerous when you told me the sun won't come up!...... and so that continues!!!!

Did evolution provide me with the ability to realise our folly and write this little story, I am pretty sure it did.  What do you think we should do about it?  Also is realising this a critical stage in our evolution, as a species, as our survival depends on it?

(Should you choose to replace man, with woman, or human, feel free, just seemed to work better for my story)  ;D
 

Offline grizelda

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Could a way of thinking be an evolutionary factor?
« Reply #17 on: 05/07/2011 09:53:03 »
 I got a little kinda magic, I can alter DNA and mess about with it making changes in the way we are.

The word you're looking for is eugenics, and it is a crime against humanity. Fortunately for the eugenicists, we have a legal system, not a justice system, which is why they aren't locked up, and in fact are doing very well, thank you. Lucky for them zombies are allowed to vote.
 

Offline Airthumbs

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Could a way of thinking be an evolutionary factor?
« Reply #18 on: 08/07/2011 03:21:04 »
Grizelda, if a way of thinking is an evolutionary factor namely incorporating "memes" then by definition just thinking would be a form of eugenics would it not?
 

Offline grizelda

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Could a way of thinking be an evolutionary factor?
« Reply #19 on: 08/07/2011 03:29:00 »
Nature does evolution, resulting in species which are optimal for their environment. Religion does eugenics, resulting in species which have devolved to fit the fantasy environment the religions set up to advance their power and wealth. Slavery is the oldest profession.
 

Offline Ape Hunter

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Could a way of thinking be an evolutionary factor?
« Reply #20 on: 12/08/2011 10:13:39 »
Within your story, the magic man represents the religious & the food man represents atheists. The problem with your story is that it is not in accordance with reality. To begin with, religion first appeared within the "Fertile Crescent" aka Mesopotamia and that's also where agriculture first appeared. Incidentally, the particular religions that began in Mesopotamia were Pagan and, ironically, just happened to be predominantly of the "sun worship" variety

The irony doesn't end there. The absolute beginning of religion & agriculture was in Sumer with the Sumerians. However, that's also the birthplace of yet another thing...

"the diversity of life on earth, share a common, simple life-form ancestor".

That's the way in which the 6000 year old, microscope lacking, religious Sumerians wrote it on stone-age clay tablets

BTW, Satanism shares a common origins with evolutionary theory within the Sumerian culture

One last thing... atheists don't have a legacy of being missionaries that took food & agricultural knowledge to the most impoverished places of the world... Christians do!
 

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Could a way of thinking be an evolutionary factor?
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