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Author Topic: Are evolution and space-time connected?  (Read 3381 times)

Offline krish1951

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Are evolution and space-time connected?
« on: 15/10/2011 15:54:01 »
Hi can you give me your views on how Darwin's Theory of evolution fits in with concepts of Space-time continuum? Evolution being no more a theory, there are too many facts - how do the two sync?
« Last Edit: 15/10/2011 21:45:46 by chris »


 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Re: Are evolution and space-time connected?
« Reply #1 on: 15/10/2011 19:17:04 »
I am not sure that I understand your question fully.  To my mind these are essentially unrelated topics and no sort of conflict exists.  Biological evolution only applies to living systems that exist within the space time continuum.

If you are talking about the possibility that the physical laws of out universe have evolved and balanced themselves quite critically to enable life to form. This is a very different matter and slightly off the mainstream thinking which that the physical laws that emerged from the big bang by a random or accidental process.

I personally do not think that the random approach is a good idea and feel that our physical laws settled out to enable longevity and complex processes by simple thermodynamic evolution but it is a very difficult theory to prove although I am working on it and feel that I am getting somewhere.  To go further in this topic here would contravene the rules of these pages.  You can find out more about it in my web pages but they are rather out of date.
 

Offline krish1951

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Are evolution and space-time connected?
« Reply #2 on: 16/10/2011 10:06:43 »
I am unable to get to your website through Soul Surfer link. Will search and read the same. My mind is not clear even now on how boundaries for biological systems - a man, a lion, a frog etc are drawn, when it is all particles zooming around. Coming to this reply - in a space-time continuum, where I age as a continuum. If my past - and the past of the earth as it evolved is a continuum, how does evolution take place in such a continuum? How are biological system different, when they are also a continuum?
 

Offline krish1951

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Are evolution and space-time connected?
« Reply #3 on: 16/10/2011 10:08:42 »
Kindly give me your web id... soul surfer seems to be a movie.
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Are evolution and space-time connected?
« Reply #4 on: 16/10/2011 10:27:35 »
The link to my website is via my profile on these pages just click on my name and chose my website link

You might find some other useful ideas there

You seem to have this hang up about the space - time continuum.  This is just an inert background to the way things happen.  A bit like the blank paper on which an artist paints the picture.  The important thing about the picture is the arrangement of the paint the paper is just there to allow the paint to stay in place.

The fundamental fact that you seem not to be sure about it that there is absolutely no difference in the basic components (particles) between biological life, a rock on this planet or a star if the farthest galaxy.  It is just how they are arranged and how they change with time according to the universal laws of physics and chemistry.  There is absolutely nothing "special" about life.
 

Offline krish1951

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Are evolution and space-time connected?
« Reply #5 on: 16/10/2011 18:00:44 »
I thought about your reply and think I got some clarity; biological systems exist generation after generation by propagating DNA and hence every generation is in such a small time scale that it hardly matters for space-time continuum.  

But then will it matter for a rock which exists for say 10 million years?
 

Offline krish1951

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Are evolution and space-time connected?
« Reply #6 on: 16/10/2011 18:02:47 »
In the meantime you have given a reply; will think about it. Thanks a lot.
 

Offline grizelda

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Are evolution and space-time connected?
« Reply #7 on: 16/10/2011 22:07:38 »
Here's a quote from wikipedia's Entropy page to help you with your thinking.
"In a study titled “Natural selection for least action” published in the Proceedings of The Royal Society A., Ville Kaila and Arto Annila of the University of Helsinki describe how the second law of thermodynamics can be written as an equation of motion to describe evolution, showing how natural selection and the principle of least action can be connected by expressing natural selection in terms of chemical thermodynamics. In this view, evolution explores possible paths to level differences in energy densities and so increase entropy most rapidly. Thus, an organism serves as an energy transfer mechanism, and beneficial mutations allow successive organisms to transfer more energy within their environment."
 

Offline CPT ArkAngel

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Are evolution and space-time connected?
« Reply #8 on: 17/10/2011 02:59:29 »
For intelligent living beings, it does not explain how we make choices, which is a part of evolution. We just don't know yet, about life being special or not. In fact, we are far from it. You can only disagree by doing an act of faith...
« Last Edit: 17/10/2011 05:01:12 by CPT ArkAngel »
 

Offline krish1951

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Are evolution and space-time connected?
« Reply #9 on: 18/10/2011 11:25:33 »
I thought about your reply - yes I am stuck in space-time continuum; I need to get clarity in this. Your quote is relevant; however coming to basics - if space and time are linked (for simplicity in one canvas) -my cat exists in space-time continuum - so my cat of 3 pm should be related to my cat of 3 am in some way as a continuum. I am unable to comprehend this clearly. This is the reason for my question on evolution. The entire evolution should be a continuum. How does this work in a space-time enclosure, where my physical time is a sheet like dimension and not what I perceive. How does my physical body look/react/stretch/evolve in a fabric of time rather than a linear time?

Please help me comprehend this.
 

Offline JP

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Are evolution and space-time connected?
« Reply #10 on: 18/10/2011 15:04:53 »
The really unique aspects of relativity are only really important when things are moving fast or when gravity is very strong (for example near big stars, or extremely dense objects) or over huge distances.  On the earth, none of this really matters. 

What does matter for evolution is something called causality.  Basically, since relativity isn't important, it's just common sense causality: something in the past can influence events in the future, but not the other way around.  Evolution depends on causality because what happens to each generation has an effect on future generations.
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Are evolution and space-time connected?
« Reply #11 on: 19/10/2011 00:26:19 »
Krish one of the most important features of space time is that as far as things that are reasonably near to you and travelling with you through it everything always looks normal(say inside our solar system).  It is only when you look at objects that are moving very fast, a very long way away or in very strong gravitational fields.  That time and space become distorted.  The text books do not stress this because it is not very "sexy" they like to concentrate on the "Gee Whizz" bits of the theories.
 

Offline simplified

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Are evolution and space-time connected?
« Reply #12 on: 30/10/2011 16:45:16 »
Hi can you give me your views on how Darwin's Theory of evolution fits in with concepts of Space-time continuum? Evolution being no more a theory, there are too many facts - how do the two sync?
Space-time is inability to explain that what is space and what is time.Theory of evolution is some inability also. :D
 

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Are evolution and space-time connected?
« Reply #12 on: 30/10/2011 16:45:16 »

 

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