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Author Topic: Black holes  (Read 5311 times)

Offline science_guy

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Black holes
« on: 05/05/2006 19:13:40 »
as the newest member of this forum, i'd like to propose a theory of mine.

if nuclear fusion in the sun is done by the center of atoms touching, releasing energy and making heavier elements, and black holes are the most dense things in the universe, would it mean black holes use fusion too?  it is possible, because the black hole would just bring in the light that it releases, and possibly suck in heat as well.

in Beyond the Cosmos by Dr. Hugh Ross, he mentions an Ultranova, which is a powerful explosion that would of blown us away if it were in the same half of our galaxy.  could an Ultranova be the death of a black hole?  is it possible, since the black hole is so dense, that when it dies, things might possibly go faster than light?

something to chew on for you :)


 

Offline Hadrian

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Re: Black holes
« Reply #1 on: 05/05/2006 19:51:08 »

I like to say the Neil comment about performance does not apply to the rest of us.




I would think a black would take in anything less dence then itself including heat.



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« Last Edit: 05/05/2006 19:51:38 by Hadrian »
 

Offline science_guy

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Re: Black holes
« Reply #2 on: 05/05/2006 19:56:30 »
i know that, but it brings up a question: what would happen if two black holes came within the other's event horizon?

the main question i was asking was what might go on inside a black hole.

E=MC2... m=deg/360 X C... C= PiD

therefore E=deg/360 X 2(PiD)
 

Offline Hadrian

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Re: Black holes
« Reply #3 on: 05/05/2006 20:17:12 »

I donít know how to answer that. Perhaps they will simply merge or perhaps they will partly suck out matter from one another as the collide till there is a unimaginably explosion

Is it possible for two black holes to collide with on another in total isolation or is it more likely that two galaxies with black hole centres will collide with one another?

If so could this lead to the creation of a supper galaxy? In deed is this how galaxies are born?

 



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another_someone

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Re: Black holes
« Reply #4 on: 05/05/2006 20:47:54 »
quote:
Originally posted by science_guy
if nuclear fusion in the sun is done by the center of atoms touching, releasing energy and making heavier elements, and black holes are the most dense things in the universe, would it mean black holes use fusion too?  it is possible, because the black hole would just bring in the light that it releases, and possibly suck in heat as well.



The generally held belief is that at the centre of a black hole there is a singularity.  If this is true, then there can be no atoms to fuse.

Ofcourse, the issue is very different when one looks at the formative processes that formed a black hole, before it became a singularity.

The other thing to remember is not not all fusion reactions give off energy.  Fusion between atoms lighter than iron will give off energy (and most fusion actually happens between the lightest of atoms, those of hydrogen).  Fusion between atoms heavier than iron actually consume energy.  Conversely, the fission of atoms heavier than iron can release energy, and this is how uranium is used in an fission bomb (i.e. atom bombs that are not hydrogen bombs).

quote:

in Beyond the Cosmos by Dr. Hugh Ross, he mentions an Ultranova, which is a powerful explosion that would of blown us away if it were in the same half of our galaxy.  could an Ultranova be the death of a black hole?  is it possible, since the black hole is so dense, that when it dies, things might possibly go faster than light?



A quick google for  Dr. Hugh Ross does seem to indicate he is less than mainstream, and seems to be associated with creationist theories.

That having been said, very powerful supernova do exist, but it seems they are known as hypernova, rather than ultranova (although it is possible that different people use different names for the same thing).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypernova
quote:

A hypernova is a theoretical type of supernova produced when an exceptionally large star collapses at the end of its lifespan. In a hypernova, the core of the star collapses directly into a black hole and two extremely energetic jets of plasma are emitted from its rotational poles at nearly the speed of light. These jets emit intense gamma rays, and are a candidate explanation for gamma ray bursts. In recent years a flurry of observational data on gamma ray bursts significantly increased our understanding of these events.
Since stars sufficiently large to collapse directly into a black hole are quite rare, hypernovae should likewise be rare. It is estimated that a hypernova occurs in our galaxy every 200 million years.







George
 

Offline Hadrian

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Re: Black holes
« Reply #5 on: 05/05/2006 20:55:05 »

George the singularity you mentioned in centre of a black hole, is it possible you think that if enough of these were to combine over time that this could spark a new universe?

 



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another_someone

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Re: Black holes
« Reply #6 on: 06/05/2006 02:24:17 »
quote:
Originally posted by Hadrian
Is it possible for two black holes to collide with on another in total isolation or is it more likely that two galaxies with black hole centres will collide with one another?

If so could this lead to the creation of a supper galaxy? In deed is this how galaxies are born?



We should find out in about 5 billion years time (ofcourse, by the the Sun would already have expanded to a red giant, and have destroyed all life on Earth anyway).

In about 5 billion years, it is thought by many astronomers that the Andromeda galaxy will collide, and the coalesce, with the Milky Way.



George
 

another_someone

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Re: Black holes
« Reply #7 on: 06/05/2006 02:36:47 »
quote:
Originally posted by Hadrian
George the singularity you mentioned in centre of a black hole, is it possible you think that if enough of these were to combine over time that this could spark a new universe?



When i first joined this forum, I thought the idea of black holes, and singularities, sounded so simple; and although I hate the idea of infinities (and the nature of a singularity must be matter at infinite density), otherwise it all seemed relatively straight forward.

Having been around here a little while, doing some background research, and looking at some of Ian's posts, I realise that black holes can get hopelessly complicated, and I know next to nothing about them.

The only saving grace is that so long as they remain behind an event horizon, ant theory is as good as any other, because we will never be able to see what happens behind the event horizon.

One major problem with black holes is that as one gets beyond the event horizon, gravity is powerful enough to create distortions in time; thus even if you can say what you think things will look like from one perspective, if you change your perspective, they may look very different.  You might even get the order in which things appear to happen being reversed by changing your position.

Does it sound like I am confused Ė that is because I am; and this is without even considering whether a singularity really does exist, or if some quantum effect somehow smears it out.



George
 

Offline science_guy

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Re: Black holes
« Reply #8 on: 06/05/2006 21:03:23 »
would the black hole actually change the way time happens?  or would it just be changing how you see the light?

what about the theory about things can't go faster than light?  the event horizon is where light cannot escape its gravity, therefore the gravity is more powerful than lightspeed.  could the time distortion be a direct cause of somthing going faster than light?  what would happen if a spaceship, built to not collapse in any way, was made to go into a black hole, with living people to explain the phenomon (if they escape) or will they be cast into another time or dimension?

E=MC2... m=deg/360 X C... C= PiD

therefore E=deg/360 X 2(PiD)
 

another_someone

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Re: Black holes
« Reply #9 on: 06/05/2006 22:42:12 »
quote:
Originally posted by science_guy
would the black hole actually change the way time happens?  or would it just be changing how you see the light?

what about the theory about things can't go faster than light?  the event horizon is where light cannot escape its gravity, therefore the gravity is more powerful than lightspeed.  could the time distortion be a direct cause of somthing going faster than light?  what would happen if a spaceship, built to not collapse in any way, was made to go into a black hole, with living people to explain the phenomon (if they escape) or will they be cast into another time or dimension?



My understanding (which, as I say, is very poor) is that, since gravity is a distortion of space, it is space itself that is travelling faster than light, and thus drags matter with it (so the matter is not travelling faster than light in relation to the space around it, so neither the object itself, not any nearby object that shares the same space, would not see itself as travelling faster than light, but someone standing well back, and in a different region of space, would see (or not see) those objects as travelling faster than light.

What I have seen somewhere is that objects faster than the speed of light will experience 1 dimension of space (hence I assume this is where the idea of a singularity comes from), but 3 dimensions of time (unlike the normal 3 dimensions of space, and 1 of time).  Don't ask me to visualise what 3 dimensions of time might look like.  Ofcourse, as I said, the objects within the black hole will not see the change of time and space; it is only if you look at them from far away that they appear in a distorted time/space environment (since it is only from far away that they appear to be travelling faster then light).

It is possible to pass through the event horizon of a large black hole and not even notice that you have done so, but you would never be able to escape from it.  A small black hole has a smaller event horizon, that has stronger tidal forces, and so you would be torn apart if you were to pass through the event horizon of a small black hole.

I await Ian to come along and tell me all the above is rubbish (it probably is).



George
 

Offline science_guy

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Re: Black holes
« Reply #10 on: 08/05/2006 19:10:52 »
i may be able to show what 3 dimensions of time may look like.

1 dimension is a timeline, infinite, and no way to change direction.  2 dimensions, like a square have length and width.  this square has an infinite to the infinite power amount of directions that time can flow around this square.  the third dimension will be like a cube and it will be like infinite to the infinite power to the infinite power.  I will also wait for Ian to prove me wrong, if i am.

E=MC2... m=deg/360 X C... C= PiD

therefore E=deg/360 X 2(PiD)
 

Offline tony6789

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Re: Black holes
« Reply #11 on: 09/05/2006 14:22:20 »
What if Black holes r 4-D?

- Big T
 

Offline Hadrian

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Re: Black holes
« Reply #12 on: 09/05/2006 14:27:27 »

Why not 11 D connections to other universes


 



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another_someone

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Re: Black holes
« Reply #13 on: 09/05/2006 14:32:25 »
quote:
Originally posted by tony6789
What if Black holes r 4-D?



But that is the whole point, it is assumed that they, like us, are 4D, but a different 4D (we are 3D of space, and 1D of time, while they are supposedly 3D of time and 1D of space).

Ofcourse, string theorists might argue we are all really 10D or 11D, but that all but 4 of those dimensions are curled up into microscopic spaces too small to detect in ordinary circumstances.



George
 

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Re: Black holes
« Reply #13 on: 09/05/2006 14:32:25 »

 

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