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Author Topic: The inside of a black hole !  (Read 4430 times)

Offline neilep

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The inside of a black hole !
« on: 06/05/2006 04:36:58 »
There may be a day when we will discover what the inside of a black hole looks like.

Perhaps a technology, which will enable an object or person to dimension shift will be fabricated.

It will enable a probe to be out of phase , not time shifted !.....and therefore would not be effected by the events, but it would still be able to record and view.

It may sound fanciful and fictitious, but when you think of the creativity that is human and how today we would be Gods to cave dwellers, I'd like to think that the limits are endless to our abilities to invent and discover.

Just from an astronomical point of view, a probe such as that could discover the secrets of planets.....stars.....supernovae etc etc...

Imagine the applications of such a technology....in other fields and sciences.

If dimensions exist then I suspect we will discover a way to investigate them.

Whajafink ?

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Offline neilep

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Re: The inside of a black hole !
« Reply #1 on: 08/05/2006 19:24:08 »
no comments ? ..or is it so bizarre an idea that it's a ludicrous concept ?

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Offline science_guy

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Re: The inside of a black hole !
« Reply #2 on: 08/05/2006 19:34:51 »
it may be that people just have no comment.  But i like the idea.  if we could explore one dimension, then we can travel space dimensions for faster than light, or even instantanous travel (those who have read children of the mind), travel time from time dimensions... the possiblities are too much to think about, except that i just did.

E=MC2... m=deg/360 X C... C= PiD

therefore E=deg/360 X 2(PiD)
 

another_someone

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Re: The inside of a black hole !
« Reply #3 on: 08/05/2006 20:52:05 »
The idea of probing in alternate dimensions (e.g. using some kind or other dimensional 'radar') might sound reasonable (it would shatter relativity, but theories are there to be knocked down).

I cannot see how we might shift objects (i.e. atomic matter) in other dimensions, without destroying the forces that hold that object (the atoms of that object) together.

There is also the problem of what to do which the space or matter that has been displaced by our moving from one place to the other.  The one thing that all these matter transfer devices so beloved of science fiction do not address is the problem that if I were to disappear from the space I occupy in an instant, how does one prevent an implosion as the air rushes to fill the vacuum suddenly created.  As I materialise in another place, what happens to the air that was there before I arrived.  One easy answer is ofcourse that there is simply a matter swap between the place I am going to, and the place I came from this is fine, so long as the environment I am going to is not a hostile environment, otherwise bringing that hostile environment back to replace the now absent me would not be appreciated by the people still residing in my old place.



George
 

Offline tony6789

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Re: The inside of a black hole !
« Reply #4 on: 09/05/2006 14:16:53 »
That day will be a long time from now...

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Offline neilep

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Re: The inside of a black hole !
« Reply #5 on: 09/05/2006 15:18:19 »
quote:
Originally posted by another_someone

The idea of probing in alternate dimensions (e.g. using some kind or other dimensional 'radar') might sound reasonable (it would shatter relativity, but theories are there to be knocked down).

I cannot see how we might shift objects (i.e. atomic matter) in other dimensions, without destroying the forces that hold that object (the atoms of that object) together.


I am sure our descendants will figure that out !

quote:


There is also the problem of what to do which the space or matter that has been displaced by our moving from one place to the other.  The one thing that all these matter transfer devices so beloved of science fiction do not address is the problem that if I were to disappear from the space I occupy in an instant, how does one prevent an implosion as the air rushes to fill the vacuum suddenly created.  As I materialise in another place, what happens to the air that was there before I arrived.  One easy answer is ofcourse that there is simply a matter swap between the place I am going to, and the place I came from this is fine, so long as the environment I am going to is not a hostile environment, otherwise bringing that hostile environment back to replace the now absent me would not be appreciated by the people still residing in my old place.



George




All good relevant points George. well done !:D (is that patronising or what ? ;))

I can't speculate for the immediate disappearance of an object from one dimension but the sudden addition to a dimension , well, don't we see that every day when babies come out of Mummys ?...or when a cake is baked and it rises to fill more space ?..isn't it just a case of displacement ?

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another_someone

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Re: The inside of a black hole !
« Reply #6 on: 09/05/2006 15:34:45 »
quote:
Originally posted by neilep

quote:
Originally posted by another_someone
I cannot see how we might shift objects (i.e. atomic matter) in other dimensions, without destroying the forces that hold that object (the atoms of that object) together.

I am sure our descendants will figure that out !



The problem is that the forces of nature must depend on the dimensions they exist in you change the dimensions, then you are likely to change the forces, and then everything is likely to fall apart (or at least, find itself modified by the changes in the forces).

quote:
quote:

There is also the problem of what to do which the space or matter that has been displaced by our moving from one place to the other.  The one thing that all these matter transfer devices so beloved of science fiction do not address is the problem that if I were to disappear from the space I occupy in an instant, how does one prevent an implosion as the air rushes to fill the vacuum suddenly created.  As I materialise in another place, what happens to the air that was there before I arrived.  One easy answer is ofcourse that there is simply a matter swap between the place I am going to, and the place I came from this is fine, so long as the environment I am going to is not a hostile environment, otherwise bringing that hostile environment back to replace the now absent me would not be appreciated by the people still residing in my old place.



I can't speculate for the immediate disappearance of an object from one dimension but the sudden addition to a dimension , well, don't we see that every day when babies come out of Mummys ?...or when a cake is baked and it rises to fill more space ?..isn't it just a case of displacement ?



Not comparable.

When a foetus grows, or a cake rises, it starts from something small, and then pushes other things out of the way as it gradually expands.  If you are moving substantial amounts of matter to a space it did not previously occupy, and are not growing it into that space, there will not be the opportunity to push other things out of the way in a gradual process.  In fact, it will not have the opportunity to push things out of the way at all, since the matter will materialise in situ.

Another issue would be that at the boundary between the inserted matter, and the environment into which it is inserted, it is likely that there will be much disruption of any atom or molecule that happened to exist at that boundary.  This is likely to cause at least some radiation to be generated (both visible, and ionising, radiation).

One way that might be able to be got around this is if the place where the object was sent from, and the place it was inserted into, happened to be almost perfect vacuums.  This would take us back to the idea of having a transmitting module and a receiving module, both evacuated, so as to minimise the adverse consequences of matter disappearing and being inserted into the space.



George
« Last Edit: 09/05/2006 15:43:14 by another_someone »
 

Offline neilep

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Re: The inside of a black hole !
« Reply #7 on: 09/05/2006 16:50:42 »
Thank you George.

I see what you mean and understand.

Could it be then that all dimensions exist ? an infinite number of dimensions ?..

I was going to ponder the thought that perhaps the probe, or indeed a person could be surrounded by it's own dimension cloak, like a tight skin...but a dimension that is unique.......

..I'm trying to speculate whether a person or probe phased out of dimension would not impinge on any physical laws as it would be in it's own dimension...hmmmm !!...presumably one would not be able to create a unique dimemsion ?

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another_someone

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Re: The inside of a black hole !
« Reply #8 on: 09/05/2006 17:39:27 »
quote:
Originally posted by neilep
I was going to ponder the thought that perhaps the probe, or indeed a person could be surrounded by it's own dimension cloak, like a tight skin...but a dimension that is unique.......



Not unless you want to suffocate.

Having a large chamber to protect you, with adequate air supply, might well be another matter.

There is still the problem of where you are going to insert yourself simply materialising in some arbitrary place might be none too healthy.

As I said, if you have a specialised receiving chamber into which you might materialise (this chamber having been sent on ahead) might suffice.  Thus, for instance, you might send such a chamber into a black hole.  You would never be able to extricate the chamber from the black hole, but you, yourself, might be able to flit between a like chamber outside the black hole and one inside the black hole.

There is still the problem, even if this is possible, how much energy would it take to do it, and what source of energy could we use to achieve it, and could we end up consuming some massive universal energy reserve.  It may look like a gross magnification of the issues surrounding global oil supplies being used up by terrestrial transportation systems.

quote:

..I'm trying to speculate whether a person or probe phased out of dimension would not impinge on any physical laws as it would be in it's own dimension...hmmmm !!...presumably one would not be able to create a unique dimemsion ?



As I mentioned in http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4195#42343, things exist by virtue of their relationship to other things (one only knows the Sun exists by virtue of the influence it has upon the things around it).  Given this, a dimension only has meaning if it helps describe a relationship between two or more things, and thus cannot exist if it is merely unique to one thing.



George
« Last Edit: 09/05/2006 17:53:56 by another_someone »
 

Offline neilep

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Re: The inside of a black hole !
« Reply #9 on: 09/05/2006 17:56:17 »
I'm assuming that survival of the passenger has already been established..........Well, one would also work into the machine (or cloak) the ability to enable one to breathe !..perhaps some form of matter transfer unit !! which can take a vacuum and then turn it into a live-able environment....

grrrrrrrrrrr !!..of course...you know I only ask these questions to make you look good George !! :D

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Offline science_guy

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Re: The inside of a black hole !
« Reply #10 on: 09/05/2006 19:15:19 »
about disrupting dimensions, there was a program on the discovery channel, about what technology aliens might have.  It says that the ship would bend the space around it, propelling the space that it occupies foward without actually moving.  because it is the space around the ship, than relativity will not apply, making the onboard clock exactly the same as a ground clock.  It mentions that it can reach speeds of 5000 mph with this system.  and with faster than light travel, it says that it can generate wormholes, or a shortcut between the bends of space.

E=MC2... m=deg/360 X C... C= PiD

therefore E=deg/360 X 2(PiD)
 

Offline neilep

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Re: The inside of a black hole !
« Reply #11 on: 09/05/2006 20:37:27 »
Science Guy....love the signature !....haven't a clue what it means but I love it anyway....something to do with relativity and some circumference diameter type stuff !!


I am sure that Physics has a way of sorting things out should an interdimensional being suddenly pop into our Universe, or ours into theirs,...there's probably a few zillion rules of physics that we just haven't discovered yet but are working their mmerry way obeying themselves to keep us all together.....which is nice !

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Re: The inside of a black hole !
« Reply #11 on: 09/05/2006 20:37:27 »

 

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