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Author Topic: Are men and women different?  (Read 10239 times)

Offline Gordian Knot

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Re: Are men and women different?
« Reply #25 on: 22/12/2011 01:52:55 »
That is also one of the most bogus books on a subject that is chock full of bogus books! IMHO. It became well known because of a clever title, not because of any useful content.
 

Offline CliffordK

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Re: Are men and women different?
« Reply #26 on: 23/12/2011 10:26:27 »
It is interesting that when shopping for Christmas Gifts, the Girls Stuff and the Boys Stuff is very different.

The Girls Stuff is generally pink & purple, with lots of flowers and princesses.
The Boys Stuff is generally blue & red, with trucks, tools, and the like.

Even if one wants to strive for equality and androgyny...  the polarization happens early.

Of course, my Nephew and Niece share toys...  at least they share my Nephew's toys...  My Niece's toys (dolls & etc) are pretty much just hers. 

I wonder if there are potential issues with viewing my Nephew's toys as "common toys" and my Niece's toys as being "only hers".
 

Offline Gordian Knot

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Re: Are men and women different?
« Reply #27 on: 24/12/2011 01:08:35 »
Actually you bring up an interesting trend that follows through into adulthood. Boys and girls play with boy's toys, but boys do not (as a rule) play with girl's toys.

As adults, men and women both wear male clothes. Men never wear women's clothes.

Apparently guys' stuff is considered fair game for both sexes. Girls' stuff is still just for girls.
 

Offline Karsten

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Re: Are men and women different?
« Reply #28 on: 28/12/2011 18:45:41 »
Actually you bring up an interesting trend that follows through into adulthood. Boys and girls play with boy's toys, but boys do not (as a rule) play with girl's toys.

As adults, men and women both wear male clothes. Men never wear women's clothes.

Apparently guys' stuff is considered fair game for both sexes. Girls' stuff is still just for girls.

Men wear skirts, make-up, high heels, jewelry, etc. What exactly is the "girls'stuff" that no man is interested in?
 

Offline Gordian Knot

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Re: Are men and women different?
« Reply #29 on: 29/12/2011 14:15:03 »
A tiny proportion of men wear women's clothing, and are considered outside the mainstream and weird by western society as a whole.

A large proportion of women wear men's clothing and it is considered normal and mainstream by western society.

Outside of western society I do not have the knowledge to comment, though I rather doubt there is a significant number of men in India or China dressed in drag.

I stand by my comment, male attire is considered socially acceptable on either sex, female attire is reserved for women.

 

Offline Karsten

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Re: Are men and women different?
« Reply #30 on: 30/12/2011 02:30:19 »
The only piece of clothing that is worn by women that generally (at least in the USA) is not worn by men is a skirt or dress. Everything else is fundamentally so similar that, depending on the current fashion and context, it can be considered unisex clothing. Well, maybe panty hose could be considered an exception as well (or an extension of the skirt). But, so what? This might be temporary. The way noble men in Europe dressed 200 years ago was rather feminine (whatever that is) by today's standards.  And I sure wish I could wear a skirt in the summer when it is really hot. It would be more comfortable than pants or even shorts. But my current social environment makes that rather uncomfortable. Maybe women have managed to become the gender that can wear what makes sense rather than what is expected? Guys can only wear what guys are allowed to wear and women can wear whatever they please? That sounds like men are forced by society to conform rather than an inherent difference.
 

Offline Geezer

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Re: Are men and women different?
« Reply #31 on: 30/12/2011 07:37:55 »
The only piece of clothing that is worn by women that generally (at least in the USA) is not worn by men is a skirt or dress.

Oi! Knock it off laddie.

I regularly wear a kilt in the US. I also carry a very large Claymore.
 

Offline CliffordK

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Re: Are men and women different?
« Reply #32 on: 30/12/2011 08:22:45 »
There are, however, exceptions to every rule.

Including some  men who wear dresses, makeup, hose, high heals, and all the rest!!!
 

Offline Geezer

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Re: Are men and women different?
« Reply #33 on: 30/12/2011 08:36:41 »
There are, however, exceptions to every rule.

Including some  men who wear dresses, makeup, hose, high heals, and all the rest!!!

Right! That's it.

I'll be tapping my claymore on your door in about four hours. You better be wearing tartan jammies, or you'll be toast.
 

Offline Gordian Knot

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Re: Are men and women different?
« Reply #34 on: 31/12/2011 03:43:58 »
Men do not wear dresses or skirts. That is two things, not one. :)
Men do not wear blouses. Just shirts. Women can wear either.
Men do not wear high heals. Women do (although they shouldn't).
Men do not wear decorative scarves as part of an ensemble. Women do.
 

Offline Karsten

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Re: Are men and women different?
« Reply #35 on: 31/12/2011 23:34:21 »
Men do not wear dresses or skirts. That is two things, not one. :)
Men do not wear blouses. Just shirts. Women can wear either.
Men do not wear high heals. Women do (although they shouldn't).
Men do not wear decorative scarves as part of an ensemble. Women do.


At what height are heeled shoes to be considered high heels?
What exactly is the difference between a shirt and a blouse?
Is a scarf that is not one color to be considered decorative?

Just because one piece of clothing is in a store that sells women's clothing right now does not mean that clothes like this never were worn, are not worn, or never will be worn by  men. I think we need precise definitions here. A blouse is a shirt worn by a woman. Put it on a man and it becomes a shirt. Same piece of clothing. Every cowboy boot has about a 2 inch heel.

And I did not bring up that men don't wear skirts! I tried to be agreeable and wrote that they "generally" don't wear skirts in the "USA". Of course men wear skirts. Exactly my point.
 

Offline Gordian Knot

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Re: Are men and women different?
« Reply #36 on: 03/01/2012 18:46:23 »
Karsten I agree with you that clothing styles have obviously changed over time. The discussion is not about the changes in historical clothing. It is the question of whether men and women are different today, 21st century earth.

I also agree that getting bogged down in the definitions is one of the most difficult stumbling blocks to having a debate. Hence here are the definitions that I perceive are accepted by "normal" society, i.e. based upon what one would see walking down the street of any major U.S. city today.

By definition, perhaps, a blouse is a shirt worn by a woman. In practice one does not see men shopping in the women's department for blouses to wear. It just isn't done. Women, however shop in men's departments for shirts all the time.

Putting a blouse on a man does not make it a shirt. It is seen as a weirdo wearing a women's piece of clothing. While a woman wearing a man's shirt is considered "normal", i.e. acceptable in modern society. Admittedly there are probably some styles of blouses that are more shirt-like than others.

One definition of high heels I found doing a quick Google search:
"High-heeled shoes are shoes which raise the heel of the wearer's foot significantly higher than the toes. When both the heel and the toes are raised, as in a platform shoe, it is generally not considered to be a "high-heel."

A high heel, then, is one that raises the heel above a natural level. Again, walking down the street of a city of your choice, one is likely to see many women wearing high heels. One is unlikely to find many men doing so.

Unless one is in Texas. Your point about cowboy boots is spot on. Which I find quite ironic, as cowboys are considered manly men, yet they are the only large group of men who wear what would be considered a high heel!
 

Offline Geezer

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Re: Are men and women different?
« Reply #37 on: 03/01/2012 20:30:49 »
I can see I'm going to have to post a piccy of the Geezer legs protruding from beneath a Gunn tartan kilt. Anyway, it's really a shame to deprive our readers of such a fine view.
 

Offline lightspeed301

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Re: Are men and women different?
« Reply #38 on: 03/01/2012 22:15:19 »
Geezer - Regarding Claymores

I spent a year in Vietnam and have a certain 'intimacy' with said claymores. We only had one size. It was about the size of a large paper back book with a curve to it and several spikes on the bottom to push into the ground. On the outside of the curve it said something like 'This Side Towards The Enemy'.

Do not detonate a claymore you are carrying with you, even if pointed in the proper direction. You think a three inch twelve gage field magnum shotgun has a kick?

 

Offline Geezer

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Re: Are men and women different?
« Reply #39 on: 03/01/2012 23:05:27 »

Geezer - Regarding Claymores


Different claymore laddie ;D
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claymore
 

Offline CZARCAR

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Re: Are men and women different?
« Reply #40 on: 04/01/2012 17:11:19 »
TP usage?...abussage?
 

Offline jackdcosta56

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Re: Are men and women different?
« Reply #41 on: 05/01/2012 05:01:41 »
if you talk about the physique .. yes they are else i think they have a similar soul.
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Are men and women different?
« Reply #42 on: 05/01/2012 05:24:38 »
Men are the same as women...just inside out !!    ;D


There was a quote I remember form a Star Trek TNG episode..."Men are human...women..... are women"
 

Offline CliffordK

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Re: Are men and women different?
« Reply #43 on: 05/01/2012 07:06:05 »
TP usage?...abussage?
I realize the 1 or 2 rolls a year that I use is awfully wasteful...  but sometimes it is just worth it!! 
 

Offline Karsten

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Re: Are men and women different?
« Reply #44 on: 15/01/2012 20:02:24 »
I keep noticing that occasionally girls get typically boy's first names. Jordan, Jesse, Logan, etc. Few boys receive girl's first names. At least it seems that way to me where I live (New England). In addition to the clothing issue discussed above, I wonder if it is that men/boys shy away from being identified as members of the still less powerful half of humans on this planet while girls obviously don't have a problem with the opposite. I don't buy that this is a difference beyond "current behavior".
 

Offline cheryl j

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Re: Are men and women different?
« Reply #45 on: 15/01/2012 22:00:34 »
Men do not wear blouses. Just shirts. Women can wear either.
Men do not wear high heals. Women do (although they shouldn't).
Men do not wear decorative scarves as part of an ensemble. Women do.

You must be young and werent around for the 60s, but surely you saw an Austin Powers movie or two, and they did wear exactly that, and grow their hair long. Why clothing styles shift like that occasionally, I'm not sure, and there is something more taboo breaking about males wearing feminine clothing. Its almost a boast, as in, I'm so confident of  my maleness, that I can wear anything. It sends some kind of message. I think the reason why women in male clothing isnt as provocative is that one assumes its for practical reasons.  Even before feminism, I suspect a women would put on a pair of mens pants to go out and hoe a field rather than drag the hem of her dress through the dirt. Dresses are not great in snowstorms.

What is more interesting, and probably more related to my original point in the first post, is not men wearing women's clothing or women wearing men's clothing, but a sort of androgenous look that started with people like David Bowie and hasnt really stopped. Although, when it comes to sex and advertising, clothes that emphasize the differences between men and women are still alive and kicking.
 

Offline Gordian Knot

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Re: Are men and women different?
« Reply #46 on: 16/01/2012 02:03:58 »
I keep noticing that occasionally girls get typically boy's first names. Jordan, Jesse, Logan, etc. Few boys receive girl's first names.

Arrghh! Don't even get me started on this whole girls using boy's names!!!!!! LoL. I hate this trend more than all of the others combined.

But for Cheryl's sake, back to the point of her first post. I could not disagree with you more. (Well, actually I probably could, but ........). Despite some homogenizing between the sexes in clothing and names, they remain very different.

Keeping to the magazine angle:

Women's magazines are made in such a way as to cater to women. Men's are catered towards them. Not that there isn't some crossover of readers, which, of course there is. And there are magazines that are about subjects interesting to both sexes.

Predominantly though, magazines are focused on one sex or the other because publishers make the most money that way. Simple economics. If the product does not make money, it will not be published.

ps. Cheryl wrong on both counts. I was around during the '60's; long hair on men wasn't as much a fashion statement as a form of rebellion.  And I wouldn't watch an Austin Powers movie if you begged me!!!!!
 

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Re: Are men and women different?
« Reply #46 on: 16/01/2012 02:03:58 »

 

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