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Author Topic: How to create gravity in space  (Read 8887 times)

Offline rpg217

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How to create gravity in space
« on: 07/12/2011 10:00:49 »
Hi all Ive currently got a design of a space craft that I'm trying to get able to fly on earth first just so i no its got enough energy to go in and out of our gravity.

I will upload the idea and video when shes all fully working but the only problem I'm having is gravity.

My design has the possibility's of being in space for years and only refueling from asteroids but us as humens if we spend that long in space we cant come back to land can we?.

So i had a thought the way we create a gravity substance is with centerfugal force could we do the same by just spinning the middle section of a hull for example.

((0)) imagine the middle bit being where we live then the next part being the spinning bit then the next part being the hull is there any possbile way of making artificial gravity like this.

Or do i have to feed everyone food with lots of metal in it and put magnets on the floor  [O8)].

thanks for looking sorry if this look childish i never really done science in school but i always loved space and I'm mechanically minded and after being told my idea is stupid by friends I'm determined to prove them wrong :D.
« Last Edit: 07/12/2011 11:21:44 by rpg217 »


 

Offline CliffordK

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Re: How to create gravity in space
« Reply #1 on: 07/12/2011 10:27:38 »
There are a lot of plans using centrifugal force to create artificial gravity in space.  And, several older science fiction movies about traveling within our solar system use such a design.  Personally I would add two gravity rings rotating in opposite directions to provide rotational stability to the ship, probably incorporating some kind of magnetic bearing.  Wind resistance is not an issue in space, at least at the sub-light speeds our technology can generate, so an aerodynamic shape is not important once the ship is up in space.

There were plans to add an artificial gravity segment to the International Space Station, but the module was cancelled.

Most long-distance spacecraft would likely be delivered into space (orbit around the earth or moon) in pieces, with the final assembly and refueling done in space.

If your ship had unlimited fuel, one could also create artificial gravity by adding constant acceleration independent of rotation.  Providing constant 1G acceleration would get the ship moving very fast over time, but the fuel supply would be a huge problem.
 

Offline rpg217

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Re: How to create gravity in space
« Reply #2 on: 07/12/2011 10:38:59 »
could you explain the gravity ring idea to me please it sounds very intresting as Ive never heard of this before.

Also my idea has a gas called hydrogen witch its used to run a generator but i will producing vast amounts of it that wont be needed so I'm guessing with the second idea you are on about rotating the whole ship?
 

Offline CliffordK

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How to create gravity in space
« Reply #3 on: 07/12/2011 11:45:35 »
If you have constant acceleration of 1G, then you don't need to rotate anything.  You would just experience the equivalent of gravity in the opposite direction from the engine thrust.  However, it would be difficult to maintain such acceleration with conventional fuels, you might need something like antimatter.

Antimatter is REAL, but scientists have only been able to synthesize it in minute quantities. 

Here is the Centrifugal Accommodations Module that was planned, but never implemented for the International Space Station.  It is SMALL.

Rotating Wheel designs are common in space designs, as well as space fiction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotating_wheel_space_station
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_torus



 

Offline rpg217

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How to create gravity in space
« Reply #4 on: 07/12/2011 11:53:02 »
so would that wheel creat AG for the whole ship. or just the section moveing
 

Offline syhprum

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How to create gravity in space
« Reply #5 on: 07/12/2011 14:14:32 »
The problems with accelerating at 1 g to produce gravity within your spaceship is that as you begin to approach the speed of light not only is more power required due to your increase in mass but that the CBMR with which space is filled begins to look like gamma radiation. 
 

Offline imatfaal

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How to create gravity in space
« Reply #6 on: 07/12/2011 18:00:40 »
The problems with accelerating at 1 g to produce gravity within your spaceship is that as you begin to approach the speed of light not only is more power required due to your increase in mass but that the CBMR with which space is filled begins to look like gamma radiation. 

Really?  Surely you can just plug in to F= mv^2/r

F = ma= mv^2/r
-cancel the mass
a=v^2/r
- set a to 10ms^-2 and r to say 40m

10.40 = v^2
v=20m/s

Ah I see the problem - you are talking about linear acceleration, and yep 1g would soon mount up to be impossible.  It works just as well with circular movement / acceleration - you feel "gravity" as a reaction to the centripetal force
 

Offline Geezer

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How to create gravity in space
« Reply #7 on: 08/12/2011 00:15:09 »
I think he means constant acceleration.
 

Offline CliffordK

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How to create gravity in space
« Reply #8 on: 08/12/2011 01:09:30 »
If your goal was to capture asteroids and comets to use as fuel, you could mix +1g and -1g acceleration, as you jump from one asteroid to another.  And, then you wouldn't be limited by a maximum speed.

However, "coasting" like the Voyager probes are doing uses much less energy for long distance trips.
 

Offline rpg217

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How to create gravity in space
« Reply #9 on: 08/12/2011 09:42:30 »
I'm after a idea that continuously works with no needs to speed up or slow down that works when they would be stationary.

Or is my best bet to make the parts of the ship such as gym sleeping and mess use centrifugal force and let the command and engineering have have artificial gravity.

But then again does the earth have gravity due to the north and south pole creating a magnetic field if so would this work on a ship?
 

Offline yor_on

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How to create gravity in space
« Reply #10 on: 08/12/2011 23:17:17 »
No, gravity is defined as being coupled to invariant mass, aka matter. It's not a magnetic 'force'. But you will need 'gravity' if you're planning to stay in space for long as it seems that our cells, and body, is created to use/need 'gravity' for some of its functions. I think we had a discussion on that some time ago?

How about a ball spinning, it would make for some strange effect though, maybe better with a cylinder rotating inside the middle of your ship, or? Anyway, how are you planning to fuel it?
« Last Edit: 08/12/2011 23:19:10 by yor_on »
 

Offline CliffordK

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How to create gravity in space
« Reply #11 on: 08/12/2011 23:42:31 »
Or is my best bet to make the parts of the ship such as gym sleeping and mess use centrifugal force and let the command and engineering have have artificial gravity.

Your centrifugal force WOULD be the artificial gravity.  You would still likely have places in the ship that would have no net centrifugal force.  My guess is that space travelers would enjoy a Zero-G Gymnasium.  And, I presume there are some activities that would benefit from a low gravity environment, for example, perhaps some product fabrication. 

Certainly some activities would benefit from a fixed plane of view.  For example, astronomy and telescopes, as well as solar power generators would benefit from rotational stability.  Or, directional antennas. 

Many vehicles are now going to "fly-by-wire".  Essentially all of one's controls are connected through electronics and computers rather than connecting them directly to the effectors.  The logical next step would be "view-by-wire" in which case the views outside of the craft are also controlled through computers.  For example, on the Star Trek Enterprise, they have a main viewscreen that can bring up the desired images.  And, thus you could provide rotational stability to your cameras without rotational stability to the cockpit.

In fact, even with telescopes, most advanced telescopes will have a digital interface and could be viewed independent of the relative movement of the person versus the telescope.

You could certainly make magnetic boots and bracelets that might help with some things like muscle tone, but my guess is that people would quickly adapt to the zero-G aspects of flight.
 

Offline CliffordK

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How to create gravity in space
« Reply #12 on: 08/12/2011 23:54:51 »
Have you read about magnetic levitation?



Anyway, with a very strong magnetic field, one can impart a 1G upward force on a frog with no physiological changes to the frog, and 100% counteract gravity so it would be floating in air.  Or, if this was transferred to space, the frog would likely feel 1G of gravitational force, and thus would be able to hop around as if he was on earth.

Doing this on humans in space would take a very intense magnetic field and a lot of energy.  I'm not sure if there have been long-term studies of the physiological effects of such an intense magnetic field.
 

Offline syhprum

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How to create gravity in space
« Reply #13 on: 10/12/2011 19:18:18 »
even if humans were unaffected by say a 20T magnetic field which I doubt everything else in the ship would have to be made of materiel's that were affected in a similar manner.
Imagine trying to eat your meals with normal cutlery.
 

Offline CliffordK

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How to create gravity in space
« Reply #14 on: 10/12/2011 22:21:51 »
Imagine trying to eat your meals with normal cutlery.
Steel?

Your knife would feel like it weighed 20 tons!!!

No steel studs in your earrings either!!!

I'm sure you could make an alloy that would balance the weight.  There may, however, be problems with the magnetic field and distance.  So, it might be hard to project a uniform intense magnetic field uniformly through a large room.

Anyway, unless the magnetic field was a waste magnetic field from something else like an engine or deflector, one wouldn't want to spend the energy to generate it when centrifugal force would be just as acceptable.

Could magnetism be used to counteract high acceleration G forces?  Of course, there is still the power/weight issue.
 

Offline yor_on

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How to create gravity in space
« Reply #15 on: 12/12/2011 09:17:02 »
I'm not sure it would work the same way on/with the cells as gravity does? It's a subject worthy of study though.
 

Offline rpg217

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How to create gravity in space
« Reply #16 on: 12/12/2011 11:05:30 »
ok so what everyone is saying is the only real way of doing this is by spinning a section of the ship :D
« Last Edit: 12/12/2011 13:16:18 by rpg217 »
 

Offline syhprum

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How to create gravity in space
« Reply #17 on: 12/12/2011 21:12:56 »
How about a two section space craft with the two sections joined by a cable in mutual rotation
 

Offline rpg217

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How to create gravity in space
« Reply #18 on: 13/12/2011 10:38:22 »
could you go into a bit more detal please as i havent heard of this one before how would this work?.

im likeing the sound of this idea.
 

Offline syhprum

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How to create gravity in space
« Reply #19 on: 13/12/2011 20:26:54 »
I have been mulling the idea over and although it would give a nice comfortable environment in the two coupled space ships it would take a lot over power both to setup the rotation and to unspin them when they reach their destination.
 

Offline Geezer

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How to create gravity in space
« Reply #20 on: 13/12/2011 20:53:32 »
If you could produce strong gravitational attraction between the two ends, you wouldn't even need the cable.......oh, forget it.
 

Offline CliffordK

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How to create gravity in space
« Reply #21 on: 14/12/2011 05:01:07 »
If you could produce strong gravitational attraction between the two ends, you wouldn't even need the cable.......oh, forget it.

Your centrifugal force is an outward force. 

When you walk on a planet, your feet go towards the center of the planet.
When you walk in a centrifugal accelerator, your feet go towards the outside, and away from the center.

The cable provides the centripital force to counteract the centrifugal force, and hold the system together. 

Two ships on a cable, once spinning, they should spin reasonably well.  Providing a couple RPM of spin shouldn't be bad.  That solution isolates the components...  which could be a problem unless a connecting tube was used instead of a cable.  It does have the advantage that one could setup an arbitrarily large radius of rotation, and thus minimize the physiological sensation of rapid rotation.  And, of course, as you mentioned, you could design your ships better to deal with heat shields and atmospheric conditions that might be encountered at the ends of the trip.

It might be unwieldy to navigate.
 

Offline Geezer

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How to create gravity in space
« Reply #22 on: 14/12/2011 07:34:35 »
Your centrifugal force is an outward force.

No it ain't. It's an imaginary force. When you let go of a slingshot, the rock follows a tangential path, not a radial path.
 

Offline rpg217

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How to create gravity in space
« Reply #23 on: 15/12/2011 10:18:03 »
this is a crude idea but if s is the spinning bit will give me some sorta force then i can look into view screens. [^]
« Last Edit: 15/12/2011 12:37:12 by rpg217 »
 

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How to create gravity in space
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