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Author Topic: Strength, Honour, Glory, Grace, Virtue?  (Read 1680 times)

Offline Titanscape

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Strength, Honour, Glory, Grace, Virtue?
« on: 03/03/2012 08:18:47 »
Good day, these words are related, strength, honour, glory, grace and virtue. Our grand parents valued these qualities more than us, don't you think? How much does the over all concept of honour matter practically?
« Last Edit: 04/03/2012 04:43:17 by Titanscape »


 

Offline graham.d

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Re: Strength, Honour, Glory, Grace, Virtue?
« Reply #1 on: 03/03/2012 12:09:12 »
The words all refer (in the context you give) to perceived aspects of a person's character. I assume that is the relation between them that you allude to, but I am guessing that these particular qualities are ones that you suppose to be less regarded today. I don't mean to be pedantic, but it is often difficult to disentangle whether it is the meaning of the words, or at least the weight of meaning, that change with time or whether it is actually people's views. It is probably both; and also there is the effects of demographic changes and how the perceived view of a past society may be weighted towards certain groups of the population at the time rather than a wider span of the population. This makes the question difficult to address in a general sense. I expect a whole book could be written on this without there being much conclusion as to the veracity of any conclusions.

I suppose I think that people have not changed very much although fashionable ideas come and go and some may persist (what Dawkins calls "memes") hopefully to the net benefit of society (although not necesarily). You mention "honour" specifically and I expect this is not unrelated to various famous people's behaviour in recent times and how it may appear that these people seem to express little remorse. However, I also think that this was not so different in past times where people "did the honorable thing" (resign, fall on their sword or whatever) not because of their behaviour, but because they had been caught and, whatever their misdeed was, made public. It is almost certainly the case that famous people today have a much harder time hiding their misdeeds and the fact that so many are exposed to the public does not make any one individual feel so isolated in his/her embarassment. I think we we have all become innured to people's bad behaviour, whether footballers or politicians, that we even expect there to be many "at it" some of the time and a few "at it" all the time (whatever "it" is). Perhaps we have not got saintly role models to look up to but then I expect those of past times were not so saintly either.

Honour should be a personal view of oneself and a means by which to control and judge one's own behaviour within the norms of the society in which we live. I don't think this personal view has changed much although I think the norms of society have, overall, become better. We never think so and look back with rose tinted glasses at some mythical golden age (so did the Romans if you read literature of the time) but generally there is slow progress.

On "strength", I think, at least "physical strength" is less regarded today because it is not of as much value whereas "intelligence" is. Perhaps "grace" was always an attribute not always achievable except for a privileged few who could afford it but I think it's meaning has changed today - maybe "graciousness" is more definable as a comparison.
 

Offline JimBob

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Re: Strength, Honour, Glory, Grace, Virtue?
« Reply #2 on: 04/03/2012 03:16:02 »
 
..... strength, honour, glory, grace and virtue. Our grand parents valued these qualities more that us, don't you think?

If they did, it was never expresses as such. The first time I knew anything about these personal values was at 12 when I read my first Horatio Hornblower book (by C. S. Forester.)  I suspect the value of these "virtues" was greater 200 years ago as so very much depended on what another person's opinion of you was or was not. A person who wanted to advance ones-self had to really behave or they were permanently doomed in life. A profession, place in society, the prospects for marriage or money could be determined by a singe incident early in life AND there was little if any way to regain ones "position" if it was lost.

Quote
How much does the over all concept of honour matter practically?

" strength, honour, glory, grace and virtue. "

 These values arise  in me only with self examination. I can only be really happy if I am at peace with myself, having cleaned out the my psyche of the dregs of today - my missteps, my poor behavior - anything that lacks "honor- or "virtue" on a daily basis.

Right now I am cutting myself a little slack as the anger I have at my paralysis is just unfocused anger. I can only resolve this issue by accepting my present condition. Sure as hell can't fix it by will alone. THAT would be HUBRIS of the hugest order!
 

Offline grizelda

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Re: Strength, Honour, Glory, Grace, Virtue?
« Reply #3 on: 05/03/2012 17:20:14 »
Yeah in the tribal world your prospects were limited by the gossip which could follow you. No doubt being in the gossip loop was a source of power over ambitious talents and gave status to those with the best sources. The modern world of travel and privacy demoted the gossip mavens as people were able to escape their tentacles for a time. Marshall McLuhan pointed out that the internet re-tribalized man as databases became available to track people and their deeds. No doubt even court records meant to be sealed after some time are being gathered on private databases of bankruptcies and divorces and with identity theft so rampant privacy is pretty much a myth. Almost impossible to keep anything from facebook or youtube  or twitter now. 
 

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Re: Strength, Honour, Glory, Grace, Virtue?
« Reply #3 on: 05/03/2012 17:20:14 »

 

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