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Author Topic: What is at the end of the Universe?  (Read 3298 times)

Offline thedoc

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What is at the end of the Universe?
« on: 21/03/2012 09:48:01 »
Tim DiGennaro  asked the Naked Scientists:
   
What do you see at the end of the universe?

 
What do you think?
« Last Edit: 21/03/2012 09:48:01 by _system »


 

Offline Sprool

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Re: What is at the end of the Universe?
« Reply #1 on: 21/03/2012 12:05:04 »
I understand theres a good restaurant
 

Offline acecharly

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Re: What is at the end of the Universe?
« Reply #2 on: 21/03/2012 14:25:32 »
Do you mean the edge or when it ends and ceases to exist?


My answer to both would be darkness if there is such a thing as an edge to space. I dont think space acts in just the 3 dimensions we can see. I dont even believe what we see is really what reality is anyway. We see all this space and matter around us and to be honest it may not even be there it could all just be a joint elaborate dream shared between us all.
 

Offline MikeS

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Re: What is at the end of the Universe?
« Reply #3 on: 21/03/2012 16:13:23 »
Question
"What do you see at the end of the universe? "

Assuming the question means the end of the universe as opposed to the edge of the universe then the answer is 'nothing'.  The end implies a period in which there is no energy.  No energy, no photons, nothing to see.  That's not the same as there being nothing there.  There could be something you just can't see it.  And of course there can't be anyone there to observe it.


The universe could have two possible end states.
1)It continues to expand and as useful energy runs out it dies and the end state is close to absolute zero.  This is the point of maximum entropy.
2)As the universe gravitationally contracts into black hole all matter and energy is consumed.  Again the temperature is close to absolute zero which is the point of maximum entropy. 

Whether the universe expands toward the infinite or contracts toward the infinite, either way entropy is satisfied and the universe reaches its ground state.

The ground state of an expanding universe has a higher energy level than a contracting universe.  (edit. maybe, maybe not, see post below)  It therefore seems logical to me to think that a gravitaional death is far more likely as it represents a lower ground state.

The end of the universe is just that but that does not preclude the universe from being cyclic.
« Last Edit: 23/03/2012 06:21:44 by MikeS »
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: What is at the end of the Universe?
« Reply #4 on: 22/03/2012 01:25:20 »
At the end of of the universe is the beginning :)

(Or a restaurant, as Sprool was kind enough to point out. I've always wanted a table there myself, but they're hard to find in the yellow pages?)
 

Offline Don_1

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Re: What is at the end of the Universe?
« Reply #5 on: 22/03/2012 08:08:13 »
Is there an end to the universe? Or does it just rearrange itself into a new beginning?

Personally, I think the universe is cyclic, so there is no beginning or end.
 

Offline acecharly

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Re: What is at the end of the Universe?
« Reply #6 on: 22/03/2012 09:02:59 »
We as people living in our world believe evrything has a beginning and an end. If we take a piece of string we know it must end somewhere. As for the universe our logical assumption is going to be that somewhere there is an edge. The problem with the human mind is we cannot comprehend infinty it just doesnt work its like trying to run windows7 on the old commodore64 im sure we will shortly have many answers to questions like this but weather we will understand the answers is something else.
 

Offline Don_1

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Re: What is at the end of the Universe?
« Reply #7 on: 22/03/2012 09:43:48 »
...... we cannot comprehend infinty ......

Which is the reason we have to put 'beginnings', 'ends' and 'boundaries' to everything, but that does not mean they exist.
 

Offline Ęthelwulf

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Re: What is at the end of the Universe?
« Reply #8 on: 22/03/2012 09:56:45 »
Tim DiGennaro  asked the Naked Scientists:
   
What do you see at the end of the universe?

 
What do you think?

Probably some superintelligence.

 

Offline MikeS

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Re: What is at the end of the Universe?
« Reply #9 on: 22/03/2012 11:51:54 »
Is there an end to the universe? Or does it just rearrange itself into a new beginning?

Personally, I think the universe is cyclic, so there is no beginning or end.

Even if it is cyclic, every universe would have it's own beginning and end.  The end is an information barrier.  All we could perhaps deduce is that energy ( including mass) is conserved but we could not experimentally deduce that there was a previous universe.
 

Offline imatfaal

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Re: What is at the end of the Universe?
« Reply #10 on: 22/03/2012 15:12:16 »
Is there an end to the universe? Or does it just rearrange itself into a new beginning?

Personally, I think the universe is cyclic, so there is no beginning or end.

Even if it is cyclic, every universe would have it's own beginning and end.  The end is an information barrier.  All we could perhaps deduce is that energy ( including mass) is conserved but we could not experimentally deduce that there was a previous universe.

Not so sure even about that... it is a tough one.  Beginning and end do rely on existence of time - but that is very philosophical and perhaps just unanswerable/unarguable (it depends too much on choice of postulates).  The conversation of energy is intimately tied up via Emmy Noether's Theorem with the symmetry and invariance under translations in time.  It gets to a point where it is almost impossible to agree a groundwork or foundation from which to build opposing arguments. 
 

Offline Airthumbs

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Re: What is at the end of the Universe?
« Reply #11 on: 23/03/2012 03:18:42 »
I theroise, with an "s", that if you could be there to see the end you would not see much for long as your eyes would freeze along with all the other matter and it would already be quite dark as nothing will be emitting radiation.

Apparently the temperature was around ten trillion degrees celcius when it all started so I would say we are getting quite chilly already.... :)  If it goes the other way you might see the end and the beginning.....
 

Offline MikeS

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Re: What is at the end of the Universe?
« Reply #12 on: 23/03/2012 06:22:33 »
imatfaal
quote
clip
" Beginning and end do rely on existence of time - but that is very philosophical and perhaps just unanswerable/unarguable (it depends too much on choice of postulates). "

I agree that beginning and end do rely on existence of time.

If the end is the universe contracting into a black hole then the temperature will drop to almost absolute zero.  The arrow of time remains but the passage of time ceases.

If the end of the universe is to expand forever then forever implies the passage of time.  An expanding universe will always contain the energy of the expansion but eventually through expansion that energy will be so dilute that the temperature will approach absolute zero.   The arrow of time remains but the passage of time ceases.

This does make me question in an expanding universe when can it be thought to be the end?  'Expansion', so long as it remains a meaningful term implies the passage of time.
« Last Edit: 25/03/2012 09:01:24 by MikeS »
 

Offline Don_1

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Re: What is at the end of the Universe?
« Reply #13 on: 23/03/2012 09:28:41 »
Is there an end to the universe? Or does it just rearrange itself into a new beginning?

Personally, I think the universe is cyclic, so there is no beginning or end.

Even if it is cyclic, every universe would have it's own beginning and end.  The end is an information barrier.  All we could perhaps deduce is that energy ( including mass) is conserved but we could not experimentally deduce that there was a previous universe.

Yes, I agree there would be no continuation of one universe into the next, but there would be a new universe born out of the old. So I guess I have not explained myself too well.
« Last Edit: 23/03/2012 09:32:32 by Don_1 »
 

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Re: What is at the end of the Universe?
« Reply #13 on: 23/03/2012 09:28:41 »

 

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