The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: can an object travel faster than the speed of light?  (Read 4236 times)

Offline maddyporter4639

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
I was thinking the other day about this. Here's my opinion.
If an object were to travel faster than the speed of light, it would become so red-shifted, than the object would not only turn a color of no color, it would turn into a micro wave or a radio wave, or maybe, if it went so fast, it would turn into nothing, space its self. (of course, i mean in conditions of a empty space, where it won't burn up and nothing would block its path.)
What do you think of this? I want your opinion.
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?


 

Offline CliffordK

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6321
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • Site Moderator
    • View Profile
Re: can an object travel faster than the speed of light?
« Reply #1 on: 08/05/2012 02:07:58 »
Light from behind would be red-shifted, to the point it would be invisible from behind.
Light from in front would be blue shifted. 

For red-shifting, the light would be taking longer wavelengths, into IR, Micrwaves, Radio Waves, & etc to the point where it is no longer observable.  This is one of the basic theories of black holes.

The object itself, however, would not change with respect to microwaves and etc.
 

Offline Phractality

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 523
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: can an object travel faster than the speed of light?
« Reply #2 on: 08/05/2012 06:14:32 »
In my own model, particles with rest mass consist of orbiting pairs of photons. Each orbiting photon travels farther than the center of its orbit in the same amount of time. Since the photons are moving at the speed of light around the common center of their orbit, the center of the orbit has to be be slower than light.
 

Offline MikeS

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1044
  • The Devils Advocate
    • View Profile
Re: can an object travel faster than the speed of light?
« Reply #3 on: 08/05/2012 09:35:39 »
An object traveling faster than light would be travelling backward in time.  If it were travelling backward in time (from our perspective) it could not emit any light in our present or future as the object has already traveled into our past. 
 

Offline Pmb

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1838
  • Physicist
    • View Profile
    • New England Science Constortium
Re: can an object travel faster than the speed of light?
« Reply #4 on: 08/05/2012 13:50:21 »
An object traveling faster than light would be travelling backward in time.  If it were travelling backward in time (from our perspective) it could not emit any light in our present or future as the object has already traveled into our past. 
A particle traveling faster than light can travel back in time but it need not do so. It all depends on what frame of reference you're observing events in.
 

Offline MikeS

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1044
  • The Devils Advocate
    • View Profile
Re: can an object travel faster than the speed of light?
« Reply #5 on: 09/05/2012 06:19:17 »
An object traveling faster than light would be travelling backward in time.  If it were travelling backward in time (from our perspective) it could not emit any light in our present or future as the object has already traveled into our past. 
A particle traveling faster than light can travel back in time but it need not do so. It all depends on what frame of reference you're observing events in.

Pete

I think I made that clear in the second sentence as I said "from our perspective"  The first sentence also implied it "An object traveling faster than light would be travelling backward in time. "  The object traveling faster than light and traveling backward in time to be meaningful, has to be viewed in the same frame.

Perhaps you were pointing out something else that I may have missed?
 

Offline Pmb

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1838
  • Physicist
    • View Profile
    • New England Science Constortium
Re: can an object travel faster than the speed of light?
« Reply #6 on: 09/05/2012 16:21:17 »
An object traveling faster than light would be travelling backward in time.  If it were travelling backward in time (from our perspective) it could not emit any light in our present or future as the object has already traveled into our past. 
A particle traveling faster than light can travel back in time but it need not do so. It all depends on what frame of reference you're observing events in.
I think I made that clear in the second sentence as I said "from our perspective"  The first sentence also implied it "An object traveling faster than light would be travelling backward in time. "  The object traveling faster than light and traveling backward in time to be meaningful, has to be viewed in the same frame.
Hold on. I think I made a mistake. The following is what I meant.
Quote
"from our perspective" is the key term here. Let us take two inertial frames of references S and S'. I will be at rest in S and you will be in frame S'. The tachyon cannot be at rest in any inertial frame of reference. It is possible to choose S and S' such that obsevers in S observer the tachyon traveling back in time while observers in S' will not observe the tachyon moving back in time.
That was based on the assuption that there does not exist a unique time order for all observers  and that time ordering of events does not depend on the obsever and as such tachyons travel back in time as determined by all inertial observers.
However I might have made an error in special relativity. I'm not sure at this point. I'll have to put this on my back burner for the next time this subect is brought up.
« Last Edit: 09/05/2012 17:16:00 by Pmb »
 

Offline Phractality

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 523
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: can an object travel faster than the speed of light?
« Reply #7 on: 09/05/2012 19:47:19 »
As I stated earlier, I have my own explanation for why massive particles can't travel faster than light. Objects are made of massive particles, so the answer to this topic is an unequivocal NO.

That also applies to energetic particles/waves, which have no proper mass. In my model, regular energy consists of aethereal shear waves, which propagate in the aether, like acoustic shear waves in a foamy solid, at the speed of light. That speed is determined by the density and shear modulus of the aether. Dark energy, on the other hand is aethereal pressure waves, and those may be billions of times faster than light. I can't say for sure that it is impossible to communicate at the speed of dark energy may be conceived of, but I have not yet conceived of any way to do it.

That aside, what about an FTL connection between cause and effect. Recent work with quantum entanglement suggests that cause and effect across significant distances (kilometers) may be simultaneouse. Most scientists agree, even if the experimental results are correct, they can never be used for FTL communication. At best, you can only verify the result after a speed of light delay.

The widespread belief that SR proves there is no preferred reference frame is falaceous. What SR does prove is that effect may precede cause in AT MOST ONE reference frame. If a cause and effect are simultaneous in one reference frame, then effect may precede cause in another reference frame. If it were simultaneous in both reference frames, that would imply paradoxes, like the grandfather paradox. Simultaneously sending and receiving a message across a distance in one preferred reference frame does not allow you to send a message to your deceased grandfather.
 
 

Offline scott32714scott

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: can an object travel faster than the speed of light?
« Reply #8 on: 09/05/2012 23:39:41 »
electrons might travel faster than the speed of light. The voltage is the speed of electrons. But Einstein's theory of relativity says's nothing can go faster than light. If Einstein is correct there should be a voltage that can not be achieved because the electrons can't go any faster. Or perhaps when the voltage goes high enough the electrons begin to increase in mass. When the electrons mass becomes high enough artificial gravity should form. with enough gravity the air around the device will compress and time will move faster. If this was connected to a radio like a plasma speaker, a gravity speaker could be made. But there may be a law preventing g's from being generated if not may be there should be. 1g is perfect for keeping the moon where it is, generating to many g's may add to the total g's of earth and bring the moon off orbit and could have more serious consequences. but if you went far away from our solar system where a massive amount of mass wont do any harm a time machine could be made. But a time machine would need so much mass that if placed to close to our solar system it could bring the planets off orbit. Do not attempt building this device without getting permission from the government. learn more at my website  <website link removed>

<You've been warned by PM (no response) about throwing in self-publicising web links (esp. when you describe the science at your site as covering "free energy, artificial gravity, lose weight without exercising, possible cure for cancer" [post removed]). Plus a big chunk of this text is lifted from your earlier post in thread 'Why is the moon is moving further away...'>


<Please read the forum's AUP if in any further doubt.>
« Last Edit: 10/05/2012 23:32:59 by peppercorn »
 

Offline Pmb

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1838
  • Physicist
    • View Profile
    • New England Science Constortium
Re: can an object travel faster than the speed of light?
« Reply #9 on: 10/05/2012 01:32:50 »
electrons might travel faster than the speed of light.
An electron is not a tachyon. When you state that electrons might travel faster than light (FTL) then you're stating that electrons are tachyons.

In order to force an electron to move FTL then that would violate special relativity (SR). It can be shown, using the principles of SR, that the faster a body moves the greater the body's inertial mass will become. The inertial mass of an electron must remain finite. However it would require an infinite amount of energy to force the electron move at the speed of light.
The voltage is the speed of electrons.
That is incorrect. There is no rationale to speak of some, as yet undefined, voltage being the speed of electrons. In fact that statment is entirely meaningless.
But Einstein's theory of relativity says's nothing an go faster than light.
This is confusing. Your opening assertion was that electrons might go FTL. Now you're quoting SR to support the statement that nothing can go FTL?
If Einstein is correct there should be a voltage that can not be achieved because the electrons can't go any faster.
This part of the post and the rest of the post is meaningless.
« Last Edit: 10/05/2012 01:52:48 by Pmb »
 

Offline Pmb

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1838
  • Physicist
    • View Profile
    • New England Science Constortium
Re: can an object travel faster than the speed of light?
« Reply #10 on: 10/05/2012 01:50:36 »
I was thinking the other day about this. Here's my opinion.
If an object were to travel faster than the speed of light, it would become so red-shifted, than the object would not only turn a color of no color, it would turn into a micro wave or a radio wave, or maybe, if it went so fast, it would turn into nothing, space its self. (of course, i mean in conditions of a empty space, where it won't burn up and nothing would block its path.)
What do you think of this? I want your opinion.
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
If what you say is true regarding the red-shift etc. Then that is not a reason to prove that such an object does not exist. Just because you can't see an object is no reason to assume that it doesn't exist.

Consider the following situation. If you exerted  force on a body then the upper limit of the body's speed is such that v < c where c = speed of light in a vacuum. No object can be accelerated from v = c - epsilon to v = c + epsilon where epsilon is an infinitesimal value of speed. So you can't accelerate a particle from any subluminal speed to a superliminal speed. Therefore you can't accelerate an object from one that can support dopper-shift to one that can't.

And you're not clear on what you meant in that remark. What exactly do you mean when you say a body would become so red-shifted. Only moving objects which are also light emitting objects can be said to be red-shifted or blue-shifted. For example, a black hole or a black dwarf cannot be red/blueshifted side neitgher can emit light. Also a red-shifted object could be blue and a blue-shifted objected can be red. The shifting does not refer to the objects color. It only refers to a direction on a light spectrum diagram.
« Last Edit: 10/05/2012 01:55:03 by Pmb »
 

Offline mommylady28

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
Re: can an object travel faster than the speed of light?
« Reply #11 on: 17/05/2012 01:53:36 »
(Just my thoughts on it. not a real anser.)i don't think partical resistence would alow it, you need a space partical wedge and particle loob that can bind the particals around the object, with out sending waves of damaging energey caused by split atoms rippling through space. now sending a coded message through space where some advanced partical probe reseves the code on the other side where it can some how be safely simalated, maby?
 

Offline mommylady28

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
Re: can an object travel faster than the speed of light?
« Reply #12 on: 17/05/2012 02:04:31 »
An object traveling faster than light would be travelling backward in time.  If it were travelling backward in time (from our perspective) it could not emit any light in our present or future as the object has already traveled into our past. ????

but dosn't this meen, that if it were possable to do, sence our vew of the stars is delade. meaning some that we see are burnt out ded, its safe to say moving away from beond light speed would slow time to far off destinacions. a kind of warp travle like star trek? lol hate to say it.
 

Offline MikeS

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1044
  • The Devils Advocate
    • View Profile
Re: can an object travel faster than the speed of light?
« Reply #13 on: 18/05/2012 06:49:34 »
An object traveling faster than light would be travelling backward in time.  If it were travelling backward in time (from our perspective) it could not emit any light in our present or future as the object has already traveled into our past. ????

but dosn't this meen, that if it were possable to do, sence our vew of the stars is delade. meaning some that we see are burnt out ded, its safe to say moving away from beond light speed would slow time to far off destinacions. a kind of warp travle like star trek? lol hate to say it.

a)  If the Universe were expanding faster than light then we would not be able to see it.
b)  Mainstream gets around the problem of faster than light expansion by postulating the production of space, thereby keeping the expansion below c.
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: can an object travel faster than the speed of light?
« Reply #13 on: 18/05/2012 06:49:34 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums