The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: What is causing this...  (Read 3648 times)

Offline nicephotog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 387
  • Thanked: 7 times
  • H h H h H h H h H h
    • View Profile
    • Freeware Downloads
What is causing this...
« on: 14/06/2012 07:14:55 »
15 Km west of Thirlmere NSW.(google earth - also found in Somalia) go down to 50Meter altitude "Satellite".
What is causing the sharp right angle on the plateau edges , for most they appear worn by rain and wind as normal or fallen away in earth tremors with their volcanic formation crack as a normal shape.
But located near them are also ramp type sequences from the plateau top down the sides where you would suppose the same right angle shapes (30 meter long rectangle around 10 meter wide).(just as non descript).
Some of them appear modified to be straighter for lack of better description.

EDITED: Also there is in the vicinity, a quadrant to semi-circular circular edge of stone , a shape rarely ever occurring but i have seen that in rare occasion from google maps  satellite pics of Somalia and once a little alike this and Somalia in Western Australia coast.
« Last Edit: 14/06/2012 09:01:54 by nicephotog »


 

Offline Ophiolite

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 716
  • Thanked: 6 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is causing this...
« Reply #1 on: 14/06/2012 13:58:33 »
NSW? New South Wales?

The only Thirlmere Google Maps comes up with is in the English Lake District. Can you give lats and longs? also if you are seeing this in somalia, where in Somalia? Lats and longs again would be helpful.
 

Offline nicephotog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 387
  • Thanked: 7 times
  • H h H h H h H h H h
    • View Profile
    • Freeware Downloads
Re: What is causing this...
« Reply #2 on: 14/06/2012 23:01:06 »
Quote
Lats and longs again would be helpful.
This is a page i built for my forum i built in PHP/MySQL. This supplies latt. and long.
http://www.wild-canidae-conservation-forum.netne.net/NEWBASEFILE-google-earth3.php

Here's a folder on the server i've put the pics from G-Earth into. You should get a short list of links in a Mozilla browser.
http://www.wild-canidae-conservation-forum.netne.net/Thirlmere-geo-map/

Take a look at 1-main-edit.jpg first.

latt.(decimal):    -34.21613176277641
long.(decimal):    150.37339210510254
Main Location URL:
http://www.wild-canidae-conservation-forum.netne.net/forumpostGmap.php?maptitle=Thirlemere-Lakes-NP&latt=-34.21613176277641&long=150.37339210510254&zoom=15&mappostuser=nicephotog&postidnumber=1

The trouble in detecting BC if the persons effect is there is  primitives would probably use the actual rock patterns and modify them , as much inclusive ramps would be deliberate dug out collapses.
It causes it to be extremely difficult to pick natural cause from minor modification.

I need to find these in Somalia again but for the point North and, North North-West Somalia is al solid rock so you should have no trouble in Google Earth within minutes.

...And thats what to expect in minutes (similar although there are much more similar to thirlmere)
www.wild-canidae-conservation-forum.netne.net/forumpostGmap.php?maptitle=Somalia+Quarry+Like&latt=10.520258&long=46.078578&zoom=19&mappostuser=


=====

The essence of this goes that...
When i was a kid as all others (youtube.com/theoldnic "Conquistadora The Explorer" has a monkey too), the first thing i noticed as anyone else did, is seeing chimpanzee and gorillas feet and hands. The problem anyone asks, is, why do they have different feet?
In seeing all this and being aware of the Austronesian expansion, it comes to wondering?, if they are so similar what the mechanical tactic is?, and perhaps it is plateaus, which reasonably much can serve as a tree to a Hominid, but much more to a carnivorous Hominid, a fortress because of the difficulty reaching the top and a look out for prey.
The evolutionary reason would not be obvious until you go hiking to climb extremely steep hills, rather than grip with feet, gripping i only molded to objects with the hands on a slope such as rocks and cracks in rocks and tree or vegetation limbs to assist balance during thrust while ascending, all that is required of feet is pivotal assistance to direct thrust and grip surface, however it appears that with foot arches, balance on objects such as tree limbs and the fact god or nature did not pave and laser level terrain and had objects consistently of any shape for feet to require to traverse, the foot arch is an assistance in balance and grip and retaining balance in some awkward movements relating objects it sits on although the balls of the feet behind the toes are favored more, for balance, during awkward traversal, however , in pivoting and balancing at rest , the arches slot neatly over some objects such as tree limbs.
What a plateau does too is make prey such as carnivorous sheep and carnivorous horses have a hard or impossible time getting up steep slopes because of their mechanical methods. Once again giant cats and wolves or anything with foot pads around human size or less are the only others likely to reach the plateau top with any ease(energy and risk expenditure).
Where apes solved things as climbing trees, Hominids may have solved it by climbing plateaus.

http://www.science20.com/news_articles/australopithecus_afarensis_lucy_had_foot_arches-76119
http://www.science20.com/news_articles/kadanuumuu_36_millionyearold_relative_lucy_found


----
Just a bit more, an interesting anecdote:
Of feet, there is also an observation of my mums Red Heeler that along with the Dingo and Kelpie all lived together in a pen that had a chicken wire netting fence just over 2 and half meters high. Both the Kelpie and the Dingo would be able to get out of the pen by pointing their noses in the desired trajectory , crouching and clearing the fence from a standing jump. However the Red Heeler was a huge solid Bull Terrier like lump.
One day i found the Dingo and the Kelpie out of the pen, but Heidi was not with them, she remained in the pen(i thought), and i heard some barking start. When i got to the end of the house i found the police had come to the house and their patrol car in front of the car port. I went to the pen and she was near the pen outside with the police. She had bitten one of them on the boot and he'd kicked her. So i put her back in the pen explaining it's mums dog and she only quite obeys me. However, as soon as she was put into the pen, she proceeded to climb out on the chicken wire.
The process is she stood her front feet up against the chicken wire and "spread her toes out" then pushed the central pad(equivalent of the balls of the human foot) against the wire, then dragged herself up with the front limbs and repeated the process with her back feet and walked all the way to the top of the chicken wire and out like a lead balloon , boomp!.
The movement she used was not dissimilar to using fingers more alike grip and was not formed by an object, it was pre determined, meaning a pre thought mold of the position of the toes to place into the chicken wire holes(around 1/2 inch diameter) was created first before they entered the holes of the wire.

Added 3 more examples similar to what is found in Somalia using google earth(not an easy or accurate ability to judge ramping because of shadow and sizing is illusional half the finds) the third possibly has a ramp albeit a slight over-natural one (200meters below). n1 i think is likely possible has a ramp("deliberate built" for lack of ability to actually be beyond a wild guess) around 50 100meters further north from its edge and is the type of place to find that with the perfect examples of straight edge right angles:

http://www.wild-canidae-conservation-forum.netne.net/forumpostGmap.php?maptitle=Thirlemere-Lakes-NP-n1&latt=-34.3105&long=150.3491&zoom=15&mappostuser=nicephotog&postidnumber=1

http://www.wild-canidae-conservation-forum.netne.net/forumpostGmap.php?maptitle=Thirlemere-Lakes-NP-n2&latt=-34.317&long=150.3418&zoom=15&mappostuser=nicephotog&postidnumber=1


http://www.wild-canidae-conservation-forum.netne.net/forumpostGmap.php?maptitle=Thirlemere-Lakes-NP-n3-ramp&latt=-34.3233&long=150.3252&zoom=15&mappostuser=nicephotog&postidnumber=1


===========Somalia (Google Earth is not allowing me down close enough(50 meters or less) to see properly, at the time i found the types of problems with the blend of natural cracking and rectangular/square shape hewn i was able to get down clearly below 50 meters or at least 50 meters two years back , its needed to determine whether it's natural or suspectable)

Somalia is full of huge amounts!!! i mean huge ....!!!! i mean loads of ...!!! i can't believe how many...!!! ....
natural square rectangular boulder.

The first shows some of the real problem of judging erosion from some type of interference maybe illegal mining , maybe remnant of something ancient.
http://www.wild-canidae-conservation-forum.netne.net/forumpostGmap.php?maptitle=Somalia-erosion-Q&latt=10.574549023970302&long=47.0332807302475&zoom=19&mappostuser=nicephotog&postidnumber=1


The second shows some extremely weird shape problems of both these need to be at least clear at 50Meter altitude or less to bother to judge them.
http://www.wild-canidae-conservation-forum.netne.net/forumpostGmap.php?maptitle=Somalia-inset-peculiar-shape-Q&latt=10.357117108330117&long=45.870148837566376&zoom=19&mappostuser=nicephotog&postidnumber=1

« Last Edit: 15/06/2012 11:23:49 by nicephotog »
 

Offline Ophiolite

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 716
  • Thanked: 6 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is causing this...
« Reply #3 on: 15/06/2012 12:39:43 »
Thank you for the detailed links.

I see nothing at all unusual in the photographs. The cliffs are of laminated sedimentary rocks with near horizontal bedding planes. The rocks have some large scale joints that may be responsible for the orientation of the cliff edge. the resultant topography seems wholly consistent with lithology and normal weathering mechanisms.
 

Offline nicephotog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 387
  • Thanked: 7 times
  • H h H h H h H h H h
    • View Profile
    • Freeware Downloads
Re: What is causing this...
« Reply #4 on: 15/06/2012 13:03:00 »
Quote
I see nothing at all unusual in the photographs.
For the weight of the point no, and "res ipsa des" to the angles of the cracks and weathering erosion, but, i wonder if some of the collapses or removed chunks from the edges don't relate in frequency to nearby natural ramps/steps/levels or collapses alike a narrow gully slot(steep gully slot from the plateau top to the base area at the absolute bottom). Old BC could modify some things by learning avalanche engineering and balance disruption and they appear a prime position, and "to have occurred" e.g. the place where a huge natural square block was, is missing the block.
As that is, caves are few and far between, they are probably much contented and sought real estate at the time.

Note: About using Google Earth there are some important things to know
1. JPEG Quantization table loading in Google Earth appears to render the satellite image in stages alike "progressive" and can have the effect of reversing the side the sun is coming from or cause trouble differentiating an indent from an out-dent (concave / convex) so you do not know a plane from a peak top, careful, that can really stuff things so you need to settle it and wait 60 seconds at low altitude.
2. I should have referred to the 50 meter altitude "as scale legend" G.Earth has an "eye altitude" measurement which at "50 meters scale legend" is around "450 meters eye altitude"
3. Unless your view is 50 meters wide you cannot decipher much truthfully of what you looking at in the satellite image.

Did you like this last lnik?
http://www.wild-canidae-conservation-forum.netne.net/forumpostGmap.php?maptitle=Somalia-inset-peculiar-shape-Q&latt=10.357117108330117&long=45.870148837566376&zoom=19&mappostuser=nicephotog&postidnumber=1

Link - ramp example:
I finally found a ramp example from somalia, it doesn't need to be as shallow a slope or even as wide or narrow, just enough to be used to ascend and descend as a bipedal, however there should be evidence of the types of rock disturbance and placement tactics mentioned before.

http://www.wild-canidae-conservation-forum.netne.net/forumpostGmap.php?maptitle=Somalia-basic-ramp-example&latt=11.24626111111111&long=48.65336111111111&zoom=19&mappostuser=nicephotog&postidnumber=1
« Last Edit: 15/06/2012 13:24:34 by nicephotog »
 

Offline nicephotog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 387
  • Thanked: 7 times
  • H h H h H h H h H h
    • View Profile
    • Freeware Downloads
Re: What is causing this...
« Reply #5 on: 15/06/2012 14:02:55 »
Actually, to make things clearer about ramps , the last example is probably a bit modern and newer than 500,000 years for the idea and this is trying to fit as much to a non Hominid as Hominid, that will become a Hominid and is/are effectively bipedal but simply hasn't bothered to make personalised customisations of its toolset as it chews through meat and veg...

take a look at this 500 meters above and a little to the right of the marker and you will see a notch which is collapsed/avalanched from the top to bottom cut into the edge of the plateau.
http://www.wild-canidae-conservation-forum.netne.net/forumpostGmap.php?maptitle=Thirlemere-Lakes-NP-n2&latt=-34.317&long=150.3418&zoom=15&mappostuser=nicephotog&postidnumber=1

What's also a ramp and at the other end of the idea is a bit of a swiss army knife of an idea on a plateau , it affords being able to chase game toward the ramp so it can almost clean and gut itself with a pop! when it hits the ground below after going over the edge, also like many animals it could shy going over the edge and be persuaded to try the impossible steep descent of the ramp and break all its bones on the way down because its feet cannot negotiate the ramp(avalanche of boulder stones).
As much, by climbing, the bipedal can just negotiate such a steep unsafe ramp of avalanched stones/boulders. This could be learned from plateau edge collapses if seen occurring and its result on a living thing that caused the edge to give.
Because it is unlikely to find either a ramp like the example or safely(perhaps) cause an avalanche ramp, ledge levels are another feature, but for safety against large creatures it requires to be steep and dangerous, a combination of climbing and ascension ease also.
The same process on an extremely steep area (more a pass in the terrain) could be used by pushing boulders off edges or dropping them onto boulders or outcrop parts of ledges below to damage and shatter boulders below into a more amenable terrain.
« Last Edit: 15/06/2012 14:07:41 by nicephotog »
 

Offline Ophiolite

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 716
  • Thanked: 6 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is causing this...
« Reply #6 on: 15/06/2012 15:10:19 »
Your prose is very difficult to understand. what do you mean by this?
i wonder if some of the collapses or removed chunks from the edges don't relate in frequency to nearby natural ramps/steps/levels or collapses alike a narrow gully slot(steep gully slot from the plateau top to the base area at the absolute bottom).
are you trying to say that there are as many collapses as there are ramps/steps/levels? If not what are you saying and what conclusion are your forming?

Old BC could modify some things by learning avalanche engineering and balance disruption and they appear a prime position, and "to have occurred" e.g. the place where a huge natural square block was, is missing the block.
I have no idea who or what old BC is.
do you mean 'they appear in a prime position' ?
so what?
 

Offline nicephotog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 387
  • Thanked: 7 times
  • H h H h H h H h H h
    • View Profile
    • Freeware Downloads
Re: What is causing this...
« Reply #7 on: 16/06/2012 01:15:50 »
Quote
are you trying to say that there are as many collapses as there are ramps/steps/levels?
I'm trying to say it weighs in as a much more sensible idea to engineer your environment if your an early hominid than to sit in a cave, and the remnants of the proposed hunting by herding technique using a plateau makes all the lurks of a plateau like piece of land much more sensible.
Not only this, alike how long a fallen away piece of cliff edge boulder sits is not dissimilar in how long some time of primitively engineered ramp(type) could sit.
Ledges are more natural(consider them a giant step ,  just fill it in with a slide of rocks and boulders to create a rough but more flat slope). About levels, some plateau sections are formed more like a wide flat step-pyramid ,  some plateaus have an end on them or parts that are like a normal steep mountain side with traction and soil firmness good enough to move up(were talking traps and defense security  by using the terrain or modifying it).
It appears there could be some such modification on the edges of mountains that simply have not been studied and if they were modified by early humans it is more likely to find the bulk of their remnants around such sites(aint i opinionated).

Rather than look around for actual ruins or dig into layers of earth and accidentally discover bones, or ring the police finding an unidentified piece of bone, it does as much in my mind stand that if someones claim that mountain ranges have sat around for Milena or more millions of years, its possible to say not much has changed in the "prinipal terrain layout and surface" but particularly with reference to the tops of mountains and plateau hills(although its stated that can well change from earthquake, erosion flood eruption e.t.c.).
A feature of finding early hominids is "caves", however, the number of such, does not constitute having a population that can sustain and grow in numbers against its environmental problems and flaws(reasonably nothing much more than any other creatures its size) in survival. It is credited at some time becoming an engineer , and that is supposed to give it extensibility in handling its environment. It is also both a hunter and considered nomadic so where the idea "all remnant bodies will be found is in a cave" is not particularly sensible inclusive in an ice age.
Personally, i believe "caves" may well have been where "some" remnant early hominid bodies would be found, but only an extremely minor quantity because they would be the less intelligent. Caves are more dangerous than plateau tops and ledges of only the rock avalanche ramp idea is any vague equal.
May well you find bodies in caves!

Quote
I have no idea who or what old BC is.
My slang for the primitive character being, alike BC in the cartoon strip.


It goes in my mind that what i saw with Google earth in Somalia and and Australia of plateaus cliffs and sides of mountains is far more sensible a method of survival for an early hominid than a cave ,  and appears to quite possibly be scarred(evidence of that type of technique undisturbed because the plateau edge or hill side is undisturbed) into the environment but as yet i cannot find any references to such a sensible method.

You wouldn't chase a baby bison through a cave to hunt without any weapons, you don't get away successfully if its mother turns up in the cave if you did that!
A cave is finally quite a stupid idea really.
Every article you read or someone explains early hominids is written Cave...cave....cave....cave....cave....

Ramp theory in Somlian landscape (pictures G. Earth)
http://www.wild-canidae-conservation-forum.netne.net/Somalia-ramp-theory/
« Last Edit: 16/06/2012 03:20:28 by nicephotog »
 

Offline nicephotog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 387
  • Thanked: 7 times
  • H h H h H h H h H h
    • View Profile
    • Freeware Downloads
Re: What is causing this...
« Reply #8 on: 17/06/2012 03:15:47 »
And a mild Apology here, the (NP) National Park is Nattai NP NOT Thirlmere Lakes NP

Quote
Ophiolite: I see nothing at all unusual in the photographs. The cliffs are of laminated sedimentary rocks with near horizontal bedding planes.

Me: e.g. the place where a huge natural square block was, is missing the block.

(This extra inline post) Just to clear something up a bit better, that's true about the excessively rectangular cracks and blocks, but they are a very minor number of and is a little excessively repeated in the terrain overall but in extremely small quantity of, and more like 100 - 1km apart each one.
Of another piece i feel is a matching point is the plateau cliff edges in either Somalia or Australia have what i described being a huge cubic shape chunk that is probably too large to move or drop from an earthquake is missing in such comparative region or local area on such plateau cliff edges. Most of the above links to positions in Thirlmere Lakes NP Nattai NP (NSW Australia) show normal erosion for most at any time but then you get "this next link" and it isn't exactly set up for tourists.


DON'T FORGET TO ZOOM DOWN ON THE LINKS BELOW , ITS A SATELLITE MAP PAGE


Example(Excessively huge rectangular blocks) of NOT in either toutist of modern british settlement contact(unknown)!
http://www.wild-canidae-conservation-forum.netne.net/forumpostGmap.php?maptitle=Thirlemere-Lakes-NP-Perfect-Rectangular-Blocks-1&latt=-34.331699966518116&long=150.32935291528702&zoom=15&mappostuser=nicephotog&postidnumber=1

This example section in a 150 meter span is as good as it can get for natural rectangles and right angles in the rock, but really should be under suspicion! (can be extracted as a low rank match as a regular expression of either natural or engineered)
http://www.wild-canidae-conservation-forum.netne.net/forumpostGmap.php?maptitle=Thirlemere-Lakes-NP-Possible-Natural-Or-Engineered-Rectangular-Blocks-1&latt=-34.303005051198674&long=150.24710297584534&zoom=15&mappostuser=nicephotog&postidnumber=1


This edge is much more normal , but i have found evidence of both ramps/ledge-ramping and nearby almost associate avalanche-ramp systems alike Somalias "geographic geology"(at this point). Great place to build a city i'd say.
http://www.wild-canidae-conservation-forum.netne.net/forumpostGmap.php?maptitle=Thirlemere-Lakes-NP-More-Normal-edging-1&latt=-34.30848205583379&long=150.23871302604675&zoom=15&mappostuser=nicephotog&postidnumber=1



Almost superfluous extra , I wouldn't half like to know what that is and commit it
http://www.wild-canidae-conservation-forum.netne.net/forumpostGmap.php?maptitle=Thirlemere-Lakes-NP-Strange-Unorthadox-Bridge-1&latt=-34.31075960469691&long=150.39304733276367&zoom=15&mappostuser=nicephotog&postidnumber=1


http://www.wild-canidae-conservation-forum.netne.net/Somalia-ramp-theory/
« Last Edit: 17/06/2012 03:50:03 by nicephotog »
 

Offline Ophiolite

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 716
  • Thanked: 6 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is causing this...
« Reply #9 on: 21/06/2012 11:12:16 »
nicephotog, thank you for your replies. Unfortunately, for the most part, they left me more confused than before. I would appreciate it if you would consider editing your posts before hitting the send button. Most of your sentences are only intelligible after considerable effort.

After multiple reading of the posts I think what you are trying to say is that early humans may have engineered their environment in some way to facilitate hunting. What is not at all clear is why you believe naturally occuring rock outcrops at the edge of plateaus are evidence of that engineering. By your own admission the engineered material would look pretty much like the natural.

Also, you seem to have this faulty idea that our ancestors were predominantly cave dwellers. Such was probably not the case. Caves are excellent sites for preserving their remains, so that's where we find many of them.
 

Offline nicephotog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 387
  • Thanked: 7 times
  • H h H h H h H h H h
    • View Profile
    • Freeware Downloads
Re: What is causing this...
« Reply #10 on: 21/06/2012 13:55:43 »
Quote
...Such was probably not the case. Caves are excellent sites for preserving their remains, so that's where we find many of them.
Actually i was saying that when people refer to the original works of the scientists relating stone age and early human evolution and inclusive pre-history eras , journalists and other origin material users banter the idea under the trade mark label "cave men".


Quote
...By your own admission the engineered material would look pretty much like the natural
It's not an admission, its a statement that available data to commit the assessment leaves decision at a point it is not decidable and that either remains possible, and hence from that there is at least enough evidence of the idea it may have been modified for hunting by stone age process. The shapes produced do not often occur so consistently with an accurate level of detail per unit of rock, they are situated along cliff edges in can be used as an entrapment gully to direct prey, it is not an absurdly high cliff , only some 20 to 50 meters , and has various narrow slopes that can be used rush/herd prey up without them having bad footing. Looks good for the idea all the way, nothings looking at a 100 meter cliff and cooking extras of tenderizing the meat also, just enough safe OHS working tools to do the job without going to far, no need for a wheel, can do it all on foot.
What was interesting about some of the rock shapes(curved 1/3 1/4 arc) is they are actually rare to see with that accuracy at that size above 5 meter radius and rare also in Somalia. Its a matter of finding them and seeing if the same types of tactic and local area(e.g. 500 meters x 500 meters example) are used and roughly mapped the same way in terrain and positions and heights(not necessarily a carbon copy).

EDIT - forgot to add the point...erosion and art
http://www.wild-canidae-conservation-forum.netne.net/forumpostGmap.php?maptitle=Somalia-excess-incut-near-cliff-sheer-drop-and-ramping-facilitation-probably-has-eroded-until-natural-appearance-but-hmmmm&latt=10.813062515474938&long=45.807355642318726&zoom=19&mappostuser=nicephotog&postidnumber=1
« Last Edit: 23/06/2012 14:51:42 by nicephotog »
 

Offline nicephotog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 387
  • Thanked: 7 times
  • H h H h H h H h H h
    • View Profile
    • Freeware Downloads
Re: What is causing this...
« Reply #11 on: 24/06/2012 02:32:45 »
Taking a particular opportunity before this thread is closed, the below are extremely important points to remember about Google Earth

Note: About using Google Earth there are some important things to know
1. JPEG Quantization table loading in Google Earth appears to render the satellite image in stages alike "progressive" and can have the effect of reversing the side the sun is coming from or cause trouble differentiating an indent from an out-dent (concave / convex) so you do not know a plane from a peak top, careful, that can really stuff things so you need to settle it and wait 60 seconds at low altitude.
2. I should have referred to the 50 meter altitude "as scale legend" G.Earth has an "eye altitude" measurement which at "50 meters scale legend" is around "450 meters eye altitude"
3. Unless your view is 50 meters wide you cannot decipher much truthfully of what you looking at in the satellite image.
4.The images returned by Google Earth and joined are often over-exposed or in bad colour balance - going down to the best low altitude can be found then pressing the menu "file - save - save image" , you can adjust that in FREEWARE "SideWinderPhotoColourBalancer EBLA4-C17" with mid-tone/gamma and or brightness AND or colour balance , or an editor with all those functions.
« Last Edit: 24/06/2012 02:34:23 by nicephotog »
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: What is causing this...
« Reply #11 on: 24/06/2012 02:32:45 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums