The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: This Is Not Theory - The Moon Hitting the Earth Is Real - Very Real!  (Read 55723 times)

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4707
  • Thanked: 153 times
  • life is too short to drink instant coffee
    • View Profile
So once every few zillion years the laws of physics are set aside? Come on, this is astronomy, not climate "science".
 

Offline SimpleEngineer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 117
    • View Profile
I thought the moon was looking a little bigger last night.. and when i woke up this morning... I found a giant rubber stamped reconstruction of MO in my back garden.. I was proper shocked..

It was even inverse, with the ridges being dips and mountains where MO has canyons... scary stuff eh?

it even left my house standing and caused no more nuisance than a buzzing fly.
 

Offline Missynmax83

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Ok like I sed I'm no one but like I sed what's the water going to do .its not climate it's liquid mass being held together by 2 gravity body pulling from an up , down and with a stronge centre , like I sed a unbrakble water balloon .if there was water alway cooling the surface at impact wouldn't that mean every time the crust broke it would move a bit but then cool and harden .it would be like a jigsaw puzzle slowly being spread apart . Law of physic is everything yes now what if the moon was formed just like most rounded shape planets and stars ,by spinning .and sins the moon is perfectly round I first would think this than earth braking of the earth and not be fun shaped . Now why isn't still spinning , I would think if  any size mass hit the moon to make it no spinning it still wouldn't be perfect line with earth .so wouldn't it have to hit earth to be perfectly line with earth......., now I first to think u guys r right and no I don't think nasa got hiden plot but I look at moon truth pic and it wasn't the big things but all the little thinks around it started to fit ,that's why I think he mite be on to something
« Last Edit: 14/11/2013 02:42:01 by Missynmax83 »
 

Offline RD

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8126
  • Thanked: 53 times
    • View Profile
... the water wood have time to be pulled to it building up at the point of impact , been held together by both the earth and moons gravity like a in brake able water baloon

The depth of the ocean is trivial compared with the diameter of Earth ...


http://www.planetaryvisions.com/Project.php?pid=2403

so the presence of water on Earth wouldn't make any difference to such a [hypothetical]  collision.

Earth's interior is still largely fluid, if the moon collided with Earth the two bodies would coalesce a bit like two water droplets : Earth would go egg-shaped as the moon approached,   ( so not like Planet-Pool in Red Dwarf :)
« Last Edit: 14/11/2013 03:33:45 by RD »
 

Offline Missynmax83

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Yer but talking about all water being moved to around 1 point on earth and that not including an gas or solid pulled by the moo or moved by the water .it don't have to be neat .and I'm shore there also wood be boiling of the water making massive stream presser pushing out .earth mite look like an orange throwen at a wall .wouldnt 2 large masses act muddy when hitting and going by that if u drive a car in to very muddy areas u will sink but if u are using catapillar wheels the weigh u can have is unreal .it don't have to be for a long time , just long anuf to bounce of
 

Offline bizerl

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 279
    • View Profile
Ahhh, I missed this fruity thread. So entertaining!

I think the problem is that when dealing with the mass of the Earth, the total mass of water is such a small percentage of it that it really wouldn't do anything, even if it was all bunched up on one side of the Earth.

But lets entertain this idea that somehow water is cushioning the blow, the "stamping" effect of Mare Orientale that was proposed by MOON TRUTH seems to rely on the fact that the blow is not cushioned.

Even if the two masses act "muddy", they're not going to bounce off eachother.
 

Offline Missynmax83

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
They will hit of course but what if there is a layer of water with nowhere to go coz the gravity of both pulls it to one point , wouldn't it be like black ice on a road . Plus after the moon stopped making super tides and started clumping water at the equator wouldn't it cool the equator to make it more thicker , plus add that water is going to get much cooler as it get higher wouldnt the water start to act like water in a slushy machine .plus what about any extra pressers the dense water would do to a single point over and over again
« Last Edit: 14/11/2013 07:45:10 by Missynmax83 »
 

Offline Missynmax83

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
When I'm talking about muddy I'm talking under the hard crust witch is acting like catapillar wheels .isnt a arch ,ball or circle the strongest shape .so if the surface was just thick unuf could it hold out long unuf for the shockwave to come back and help force a bounce like a rubber ball
« Last Edit: 14/11/2013 08:43:15 by Missynmax83 »
 

Offline Supercryptid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
    • View Profile
    • http://www.angelfire.com/sc2/Trunko
I would like to add the issue of scaling laws to this discussion. The larger something becomes, the more its strength-to-weight ratio decreases. Let's say you have a beam of steel that is 1 meter in length. You then scale this beam up so that it is twice as long, twice as wide and twice as thick (therefore retaining the same proportions). The strength has not been increased two-fold, but four-fold (it increases with the square of the length increase). This may sound like a good thing, but the weight has increased eight-fold (it increases with the cube of the length increase). This means that the strength-to-weight ratio of the beam has been cut in half by doubling its length. Even if a sufficient repulsive force could be generated between the Earth and the Moon upon a collision, they both lack the structural strength to retain their shape under such immense force. This is especially true since a large amount of their composition is warm and soft (or even hot and liquid, in the case of the Earth). Their surface is composed of a relatively thin layer of brittle stone and minerals, which have a much lower strength-to-weight ratio than steel of the same shape and volume (not that it could survive even if it was made of steel).
« Last Edit: 15/11/2013 03:55:10 by Supercryptid »
 

Offline Ethos_

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1277
  • Thanked: 14 times
    • View Profile
Ahhh, I missed this fruity thread. So entertaining!

I suspect that the reason it's entertaining is a result of the diversion from reality it creates. Kind of like watching SpongeBob Square Pants. But I gave up cartoons many, many years ago.
 

Offline Supercryptid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
    • View Profile
    • http://www.angelfire.com/sc2/Trunko
MOON TRUTH, it would probably make you more credible if you were actually willing to address the specific objections that have been raised against your proposal. You are willing to debate, right? Let's see you hold to your own word and debate against our points. Here are some of the issues that have been raised that you have not yet addressed:

(1) How can the magnetic fields of the Earth and Moon be strong enough to force them apart once they have collided? Keep in mind that the magnetic field strength of the Earth is comparable to that of a strong refrigerator magnet. How do you rationalize that as being strong enough to push two celestial bodies apart? This is even more problematic since you propose that the Moon is much larger than the currently accepted measure.

(2) How do you propose that the Earth and the Moon are structurally strong enough to hold together during the impact? The forces generated would be truly immense.

(3) How do you get rid of the excess orbital angular momentum that the Moon has so that it will be able to collide with the Earth?

(4) Why hasn't complex life been wiped out by the multiple impacts? Surely the immense heat, shockwaves, tsunamis, earthquakes and subsequent "impact winter" would have killed the vast majority of living things (including humans). If a mere 6-mile long asteroid impact killed the dinosaurs, then how could the much larger Moon leave so many things alive?

(5) I'm glad that a way to measure the distance from the Earth to the Moon has been brought up, as this also allows us to estimate the diameter of the Moon. The angular diameter of the Moon (the size that it "looks" from our point of view) is about 0.5 degrees. This is something that can be measured by an average Joe, so no NASA conspiracies for that value. If we know the distance to the Moon, we can use this information to help us estimate the diameter. The given estimate derived by calculation in the link posted earlier, the distance is 247,000 miles. You can use this calculator to arrive at the diameter. Don't forget to convert between SI and metric: http://rechneronline.de/sehwinkel/angular-diameter.php When you plug in the numbers, you get ~2,155 miles. This is in close agreement with the number NASA gives us (~2,170 miles). So here you have a confirmation of the Moon's diameter using techniques available to the masses. How then, do you reconcile this with your claim that the Moon is four times larger than what NASA says?

You say you are willing to debate, so let's hear some answers.
« Last Edit: 15/11/2013 06:21:12 by Supercryptid »
 

Offline Missynmax83

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
I'll just say I'm am a joe blow person but this is how I'm swing it in my head.all I'm trying to say if the surfaces could hold out just for 1 moment couldn't it just maybe happen .just say the moon used to spin witch to me seem more likely coz it go more with how planets and stars formed.so if two spinning masses hit the motion isn't flat, its like skipping of each other ,with all things iv sed couldn't maybe they hold out long unuf for the 2 surfaces to roll the weight to different parts intill they start pulling away and move away
« Last Edit: 15/11/2013 11:02:48 by Missynmax83 »
 

Offline Missynmax83

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
I do think most life would die but life show over and over again its hard to kill and if to where at the poles u most have the best chances..... Now the speed the moon would fall could be slow  ,now compared that to the earth spinning and maybe the moon to ,it would be like spinning to balls very very fast and slowly push them together . They only just touch sometime not even that but that one is to do with the air 
« Last Edit: 15/11/2013 10:52:21 by Missynmax83 »
 

Offline Missynmax83

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Now someone said about braking the laws of physics well don't the laws of physics say when u spin around u with be pushed out not in like gravity does , now what if u have a gravity so close and pulling the other way that maybe the laws of physics of motion gets stronger and come into play and give extre strength to the surfaces of the moon and earth.changing the weight and pressers of both .like I sed it didn't need to be neat .i get the earth going egg shaped but in my head that would most likely be if the faces of the moon and earth where at the same point all the time .not a hump rolling round the earth with super cool water cooling the surface trying to hold back all this presser witch at impact is the reo to the surface like steel to cement .plus with that much cooling going on wouldn't the air temp drop  massively .
« Last Edit: 15/11/2013 14:47:59 by Missynmax83 »
 

Offline Supercryptid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
    • View Profile
    • http://www.angelfire.com/sc2/Trunko
Quote
I'll just say I'm am a joe blow person but this is how I'm swing it in my head.all I'm trying to say if the surfaces could hold out just for 1 moment couldn't it just maybe happen .just say the moon used to spin witch to me seem more likely coz it go more with how planets and stars formed.so if two spinning masses hit the motion isn't flat, its like skipping of each other ,with all things iv sed couldn't maybe they hold out long unuf for the 2 surfaces to roll the weight to different parts intill they start pulling away and move away

They can't hold out. Not even for a moment. Actually, trying to minimize the time for which the two objects are in physical contact with each other would require increasing the forces which act between them. The higher the forces, the more damage done to each celestial body.

Consider this: the asteroid which created the Chicxulub crater (the one commonly credited with killing the dinosaurs) has been estimated at around 9-10 kilometers in length. The depth of the crater is around 10 kilometers. The thickness of the Earth's crust ranges from 5 to 50 kilometers (oceanic crust tends to be thinner and continental crust thicker). So here we have an object a mere 10 kilometers in length capable of generating sufficient force to pierce the Earth's crust in some places. Now imagine replacing this 10 kilometer asteroid with an object the size of the Moon (near 3,500 kilometers in diameter). That's a near 350-fold increase in diameter. The differences in their volume and mass would be much greater than that (scaling laws based on a 350-fold increase in diameter indicate that the Moon is ~40 million times more massive than the asteroid, although this will vary slightly depending on differences in density and shape). Nonetheless, it should be abundantly obvious the the Earth's crust would be shattered into oblivion if the Moon struck it.

Quote
I do think most life would die but life show over and over again its hard to kill and if to where at the poles u most have the best chances..... Now the speed the moon would fall could be slow  ,now compared that to the earth spinning and maybe the moon to ,it would be like spinning to balls very very fast and slowly push them together . They only just touch sometime not even that but that one is to do with the air

The only life that could conceivably survive such an impact would be microbes (most likely those buried deep into the Earth's crust on the side of the planet opposite the impact site). If life had to restart, it would need to restart from microbes. By the way, it took about 2 billion years for single cells to evolve into something as simple as sponges. So after the Moon struck, it would take over 2 billion years before complex life could come back.

As far as to liken the Earth to a ball that is spinning "very very fast", I would have to disagree. Imagine holding a basketball on your finger tip and that it is rotating at the same rate that the Earth is. That would be 1 revolution every 24 hours. That would most likely be much too slow to even be seen with the naked eye. For all intents and purposes, we could consider it to not be spinning at all during the impact. It certainly wouldn't be fast enough to have any noticeable effect.

Quote
Now someone said about braking the laws of physics well don't the laws of physics say when u spin around u with be pushed out not in like gravity does , now what if u have a gravity so close and pulling the other way that maybe the laws of physics of motion gets stronger and come into play and give extre strength to the surfaces of the moon and earth.changing the weight and pressers of both .like I sed it didn't need to be neat .i get the earth going egg shaped but in my head that would most likely be if the faces of the moon and earth where at the same point all the time .not a hump rolling round the earth with super cool water cooling the surface trying to hold back all this presser witch at impact is the reo to the surface like steel to cement .plus with that much cooling going on wouldn't the air temp drop  massively .

I find it difficult to understand quite what you're getting at here, but I've already address the two key issues you seem to be bringing up: (1) The Earth's crust isn't nearly strong enough to protect it during an impact with the Moon and (2) The Earth doesn't spin fast enough to make any difference in such an impact.
 

Offline Missynmax83

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
I know what a comet will do and I know how even they can explode b4 impact but how much damage would it do after taking away it's motion and it falling at the most lowest speed of free all , that's what I c the moon more Likely doing sins it's pritty much sitting still comperted to the speed it moves away from us .now if I was to watch over a hour the moon head to earth at them speed how many time would the earth spin .if the moon was to get here from where it is with in a year yes no hope at all , that's only 365 revs but if it takes 1000 years that's 365000 rev .its only take a couple 1000 house power to move the earth of it axis a little so the moon would be less.... And I sed about a super cooling to make the surface stronger .they say b4 the first ice age they wasn't really much ice then some how have a ice age with cycles , so to me something happen on a massive long scale not a short scale .wouldnt the thickness and temp of the surface need to be charge permanently not a event smashing the surface apart rasing surface temps
« Last Edit: 16/11/2013 11:54:18 by Missynmax83 »
 

Offline Missynmax83

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Also what if the surface was cooler and thicker that when it did crack it was like when u step on ice and brake though where the ice brakes around ur foot but not under the foot leaving a hole peace with the imprint of ur sole on it .now say when the moon hit it broke the same way but with  laws of physics of gravity around 0 sin  u got  a reverse gravity ,so now laws of physics of motion is pushing out and exploding between the moo and earth .all I'm saying is just maybe ...... Maybe when u look up at the moon and c the round dark spots that make the man in moon maybe they r presser marks
 

Offline Missynmax83

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Also everyone talking about comets hit the earth, but they r high speed impacts ,the moon hitting will be a low speed impact witch makes all the differents .tap a peace of glass with a marble and most likely do nothing but throw it at the glass and it shatters along with the marble ,it makes all the differents
 

Offline Missynmax83

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
What I'm saying about gravity is as the moon start to slowly move towards earth first the water wood slowly be dragged to below the closes point to the moon but with the earth still spinning below the water keeping it stured sand stoping it going hard,pressing the water cooler and denser than the deeps past of the ocean now .when the moon get much closer it gravity on earth wood get much stronger .same as earth on the moons gravity .changing the way gravity is acting at the closes points of the 2 ,making earth act like the moon and the moon acting like having 0 gravity .now at some point laws of physics of motion on the earth surface would come in to play , sins we spin at 1650 kmh and if any object moving away from this planet at them speed it's only leaving earth.so now when the moon hit u got pressers and explosive forces pushing the moon away coz laws of physics of motion is trying to push the earth surface out coz of the lower gravity afect ,it don't need to be neat just got to work
« Last Edit: 16/11/2013 13:09:32 by Missynmax83 »
 

Offline RD

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8126
  • Thanked: 53 times
    • View Profile
At its current distance from Earth, the gravitational pull of the moon distorts the surface of Earth,
see "body tides" ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_tide

This deformation would increase exponentially as the moon approached Earth.

As I said previously , if the moon got closer to earth, even if it approached very slowly , Earth would be increasingly deformed into an egg-shape and eventually the still-largely-liquid Earth  would consume the (smaller) moon ...   


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Earth-Moon.png  [ to scale ]
« Last Edit: 16/11/2013 18:09:59 by RD »
 

Offline Supercryptid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
    • View Profile
    • http://www.angelfire.com/sc2/Trunko
I plan on responding to each of your posts, Missynmax83, but I want to do some calculations in regards to this issue first. This may take some time. I'll get back to you later.
 

Offline Missynmax83

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
If the moon was to hit earth with in a year or so yes but I'm talking 1000s of years and with the surface being super cooled right at the spot the moon is having its biggest afect. plus coz the surface and that is still a solid wouldn't the thickens of the earth with it spinning change the shape more like a wheel or Pan shape ,but now add a super cooled surface holding the earth in shape ...
 

Offline RD

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8126
  • Thanked: 53 times
    • View Profile
...  surface being super cooled right at the spot the moon is having its biggest afect ...

The two bodies would have to be totally solid to bounce off each other like pool-balls, Earth being solid at solid at "the right spot" isn't going to stop the moon being swallowed up by the largely liquid Earth.

According to the misguided* member MOON TRUTH, who started this thread, the moon has already hit Earth repeatedly. So your hypothetical solidification cannot explain his theory because Earth currently has a largely molten core, (so it was not solid in the past).

[ * if he was to study the features on other moons and planets I believe he could find some which correspond with those on Earth,  which would demonstrate that his idea than the moon has left imprints on Earth is not the reason astronomical bodies have common features ].
« Last Edit: 17/11/2013 02:51:59 by RD »
 

Offline Missynmax83

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
The core would stay molten .my point was laws of physics of motion would = the top layers of earth  to be = to that of a solid mass where the 2 gravity start to = each other out where the  laws of physics of motion is free to have afect.all being held in place by a cooler thicker surface  with water  trying to freeze and compact  it, with looking at other planets moons it's different coz pretty much every other planet it moon orbits different to  earth.other planets have 1angle at around 1%  of its surface but earth  the moon could hit at many different angles and around 50% of the surface
« Last Edit: 17/11/2013 04:09:12 by Missynmax83 »
 

Offline Missynmax83

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Now how would we know the layer of earth under the surface has not been cool down b4 ,the core will try and stay at current temp ,so after the moon has moved away from earth and the water is free to move back to how it is ,the core is free the warm the layers of earth back to normal temps with the only thing charge being the surface ,air and water temp
 

The Naked Scientists Forum


 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
 
Login
Login with username, password and session length