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Author Topic: This Is Not Theory - The Moon Hitting the Earth Is Real - Very Real!  (Read 55572 times)

Offline Supercryptid

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I know what a comet will do and I know how even they can explode b4 impact but how much damage would it do after taking away it's motion and it falling at the most lowest speed of free all

Even if you were able to take the Moon and gently set it down on the Earth's surface, it would still collapse. The major factor holding the Moon, Earth and other large celestial bodies together in a spherical shape is gravity, not the material strength of its substance. As a matter of fact, the major reason why they are spherical in the first place is because gravity is strong enough to force them into that shape. This means that the forces generated by gravity are strong enough to overwhelm the inherit structural integrity of the rocks and minerals that make these bodies up, causing them to break, stretch and morph until a low energy, overall spherical shape is attained.

So think about the rocky material that makes up the Moon. It is held in place mostly by its gravitational self-attraction. When you take the Moon and set it on the Earth, which has much stronger gravity, the material that composes the Moon will be more strongly attracted to the Earth than it is to the rest of the material in the Moon. This will cause it to break apart and fall towards the Earth.

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that's what I c the moon more Likely doing sins it's pritty much sitting still comperted to the speed it moves away from us .now if I was to watch over a hour the moon head to earth at them speed how many time would the earth spin .if the moon was to get here from where it is with in a year yes no hope at all , that's only 365 revs but if it takes 1000 years that's 365000 rev .its only take a couple 1000 house power to move the earth of it axis a little so the moon would be less....

Why does it matter how long it takes for the Moon to reach the Earth? The actual impact itself will last only a moment.

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And I sed about a super cooling to make the surface stronger

(1) How exactly do you think that making the surface of the Earth colder will make it stronger? If you put a rock in the freezer, how much stronger do you think it will become and why?
(2) How do you propose that this hypothetical "super cooling" of yours is created? Stirring up a liquid will add kinetic energy to it, ultimately causing its temperature to increase (assuming it isn't hotter than other surrounding matter such as air and stone). The temperature will become much greater once the Moon reaches the Earth's atmosphere. Adiabatic heating caused by the entry will massively increase the air temperature.

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they say b4 the first ice age they wasn't really much ice then some how have a ice age with cycles , so to me something happen on a massive long scale not a short scale .wouldnt the thickness and temp of the surface need to be charge permanently not a event smashing the surface apart rasing surface temps

So you think that automatically means that the Moon impacting the Earth was the cause of the Ice Ages? That's an unfounded conclusion. There are other more rational ways that the Earth can go through cooling periods such as clouds from large volcanic eruptions or changing ocean currents due to plate tectonics.

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Also what if the surface was cooler and thicker that when it did crack it was like when u step on ice and brake though where the ice brakes around ur foot but not under the foot leaving a hole peace with the imprint of ur sole on it

Once again, how does the surface being cooler help with anything? The analogy with ice is flawed because it assumes that the forces involved are relatively small. When two astronomical bodies collide, the forces are anything but small.

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now say when the moon hit it broke the same way but with  laws of physics of gravity around 0 sin  u got  a reverse gravity

Wait, how do you figure gravity is going to reverse? Based on what reasoning? One of the functions which affects the strength of gravitational attraction is the distance involved. As the Moon and Earth get closer, the strength of the gravitational attraction between them will increase exponentially (gravity is a square law force, halving the distance between two bodies increases the attraction between them four-fold). At the moment of impact, the attraction will be stronger than at any other time when it was heading towards the Earth.

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,so now laws of physics of motion is pushing out and exploding between the moo and earth .all I'm saying is just maybe ...... Maybe when u look up at the moon and c the round dark spots that make the man in moon maybe they r presser marks

Now you're invoking a magical explosion that can push the Earth and Moon apart? Where does the explosion come from? Do you realize just how much energy would be required to separate such large objects? You're going to need quite a potent energy source to create such an explosion. You'd also need to explain why such a titanic energy burst wouldn't massively damage the Earth and Moon in the process.

We can calculate the energy required to accelerate an object with the mass of the Moon to the escape velocity of Earth:

Ek = 0.5mv2
Ek = 0.5 x (7.3477 x 1022 kilograms) x (11,186 meters per second)2
Ek = 4.597 x 1030 joules

To put that in perspective, this is between 10 million and 100 million times the energy released during the impact of the Chicxulub meoteorite. It's estimated that 75% or more of extant life at the time was killed by that impact. What would an explosion millions of times greater in magnitude cause? Technically, the energy required is somewhat lower than what is calculated, since we are not sending the Moon off into deep space but merely raising it into a high orbit (~239,000 miles away). Nonetheless, this calculation demonstrates that the required energy to do that is still incredible.

We have a much more plausible explanation for the Lunar seas than this "Earth Collision Theory", and that is that a large asteroid impact pierced the Moon's crust in the past, causing molten rock to flow onto the surface and solidify into relatively smooth, dark patches on the surface.

You seem to be saying "maybe" an awful lot. That doesn't make you sound very confident in your own assertions.

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Also everyone talking about comets hit the earth, but they r high speed impacts ,the moon hitting will be a low speed impact witch makes all the differents .tap a peace of glass with a marble and most likely do nothing but throw it at the glass and it shatters along with the marble ,it makes all the differents

How do you know it will be a "low speed impact"? Have you calculated how fast the Moon would be moving? It's irrelevant anyway, as I explained before that the major force holding the Earth together is gravitational attraction and not material strength. A marble and a piece of glass get their shape and strength from molecular bonds. The difference is all down to scaling laws. The two situations are not at all comparable.

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What I'm saying about gravity is as the moon start to slowly move towards earth first the water wood slowly be dragged to below the closes point to the moon but with the earth still spinning below the water keeping it stured sand stoping it going hard,pressing the water cooler and denser than the deeps past of the ocean now.

Nope. Stirring a liquid will make it hotter (assuming it is in thermal equilibrium with the air). See what I said above. Also, water is very resistant to being compressed, so that's a factor that can be ignored here. By the way, compression makes things hotter, not cooler.

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when the moon get much closer it gravity on earth wood get much stronger .same as earth on the moons gravity .changing the way gravity is acting at the closes points of the 2 ,making earth act like the moon and the moon acting like having 0 gravity.

Nope again. I explained this earlier.

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now at some point laws of physics of motion on the earth surface would come in to play , sins we spin at 1650 kmh and if any object moving away from this planet at them speed it's only leaving earth

1,650 kilometers per hour is far below the escape velocity of the Earth (which is actually in excess of 40,000 kilometers per hour). Not that it matters anyway, as the Moon and Earth are moving towards each other in this hypothetical scenario and not away from each other.

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so now when the moon hit u got pressers and explosive forces pushing the moon away coz laws of physics of motion is trying to push the earth surface out coz of the lower gravity afect ,it don't need to be neat just got to work

This seems to be a summary of what you've said before, so I've already explained why this is wrong.
« Last Edit: 17/11/2013 07:00:29 by Supercryptid »
 

Offline Missynmax83

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ok thats long so ill do bit by bit ....with the water like i sed it wood be like a super tide having it weight change by the moon so it can start to stack it self on top of it self . now the heighter it get it will get colder and try to freeze but being miked by the earth spinning (like a frozen coke machine)now every thing u say is true 99% and i know that but im talking about that 1% of maybe....the speed the moon coming does matter yes its will happen for just 1 moment thats all im saying them have to hold out for but hoiw long the moon gets here does matter sins it will give the moon time sitting in earth  atmosphere and in the very water cooling the earth. yes a rock will not get stronger in the freezer but im talking about is more like a length of hot steel or rock being frozen at one end ,after some time the cool will transure from 1 end to the other,with earth  that would be a thicking of the surface .now u r sayin how bi the explosion will be when the surfaces do brake .the differents this time its got a lot of water around it and we know what happens when u put a water pack on explosives comperd to no water pack ,so for the very 1st moment the water should be containing the explosion and directing 2 ways up and down........and it not the moon who need to not to have it surface completely shatted only earth making it go away with minimal damage
« Last Edit: 17/11/2013 11:05:07 by Missynmax83 »
 

Offline Missynmax83

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ice age was a maybe and could be added with the rest
 

Offline Missynmax83

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i know compression make thing hot its how a diesal engine works im saying water can be really cold when dense ,the deeps parts of the ocean show that . im not talking about the earth and moons gravity on its self im talking about what on them (water that does change )and maybe the surface and some of what under it will have the same affect happen ,now adding motion pushing out its adds more again
 

Offline Missynmax83

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40000 kmh i know that but isnt that for going around the earth so ur side way force = u free fall force so u can sit a single height from earth .im talk about the presser behind the surface leaving the planet straight out. pressers now giving extra support to the surface (with it being thicker) 
« Last Edit: 17/11/2013 11:38:54 by Missynmax83 »
 

Offline Missynmax83

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Also wouldn't there atomic try explodes in the same way a gun try atomic bomb works plus compression . when the surface cracks around the impact witch is  surrounded by water .and like the same way a comet can explode b4 impact couldn't it explode but this time is not just 1 chuck of matter its much bigger and over and over ,,,, for 1 moment u have a natural internal combustion event
 

Offline Missynmax83

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I say maybe not coz I don't really think it could happen .i say maybe coz right now it seems to be only impossible but all it need to be is a maybe to possible of happening .to tell the truth intill a hour b4 wrighting on here I have never thought this could or had happened sins no one has ever sed anything about it .but after having a little look at whAt moon truth was talking about I thought it was possible and I want to work out if it can happen sins it can make sense
 

Offline distimpson

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..The mainstream is stuck in the mainstream, with no way to get out, not without admitting they were wrong about everything in the past.

No question, "wrong about everything" is a tough sell, after several hundred years of effort the various accepted theories survive because of agreement with observations.

First question, how could this happen? As the other folks here have mentioned, a bouncing mechanism is not viable.

You could use a gravity simulator to come up with a mechanism but you would have to assume the work of Newton and others has some merit. I really like this site, !!caution!!, if you think science is fun you may find it very additive: http://www.testtubegames.com/gravity.html

Neglecting all other physical effects and making a lot of other assumptions, a"kissing orbit" may fit but I think that would have been noticed by now, so only offered here for fun:
 

Offline Missynmax83

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kissing orbit does fit best ,and it proble has been notice many time but that is as far as it goes coz even b4 they look in to it they say the surface of the moon and earth wouldnt hold out so its desmisted and not given the time
« Last Edit: 18/11/2013 01:30:24 by Missynmax83 »
 

Offline Missynmax83

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also with the event of a mar size planet hitting us.if a eart quake can move the earth orbit axis by a couple of cms and if possable it would only take a couple 1000 horse power to move the earth .so if it did happn with out the object being part of ow orbit wouldnt it have massive afects on where ow orbit. wouldnt we  way to close to the sun or way to far from the sun .wouldnt that have massive temp changes not the little changes that we can c.also wouldnt it be a bit like it is with the moon ,u can jump a little but jump to much woooops.so with what im saying with a oject on a diffenent orbit hitting us wouldnt it be very clear to tell.the only other this would be earth had a second moon but again wouldnt to clear to tell...and if we where to be hit on ow side wouldnt we be aball to tell coz the earth would be out of sync with the other planets.....also so this would only be miner but as the moon spin around earth would the suns gravity have affect to .not much but a little bit of destorion
« Last Edit: 18/11/2013 02:19:09 by Missynmax83 »
 

Offline Missynmax83

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thing change all the time like just now it looks like they have find the olds life on earh wright here in outback australia . the life is 3,500,000,000 years old
 

Offline Supercryptid

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ok thats long so ill do bit by bit

When many points need addressing, that'll happen. I'd like to address all the points.

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....with the water like i sed it wood be like a super tide having it weight change by the moon so it can start to stack it self on top of it self . now the heighter it get it will get colder and try to freeze but being miked by the earth spinning (like a frozen coke machine) and in the very water cooling the earth. yes a rock will not get stronger in the freezer but im talking about is more like a length of hot steel or rock being frozen at one end ,after some time the cool will transure from 1 end to the other,with earth  that would be a thicking of the surface .now u r sayin how bi the explosion will be when the surfaces do brake .the differents this time its got a lot of water around it and we know what happens when u put a water pack on explosives comperd to no water pack ,so for the very 1st moment the water should be containing the explosion and directing 2 ways up and down........and it not the moon who need to not to have it surface completely shatted only earth making it go away with minimal damage

It should be pointed out that when putting an explosive in a bucket of water, the mass of the water is comparable or even larger than the mass of the explosive. This is nowhere near true for this case. For example, the oceans make up only 0.023% of the Earth's total mass and have 1.9% of the Moon's mass. We can probably visualize this better by imagining a scaled-down version of the Earth. Let's imagine shrinking the Earth down to the size of a basketball (about 24 centimeters in diameter). The deepest point the ocean on this tiny Earth, the Marianas Trench, would be only 0.33 millimeters deep. The thickest part of the Earth's crust would be about 1 millimeter thick. A sphere this size with the same density as the Earth would weight a bit less than 40 kilograms. 0.023% of 40 kilograms is 9.2 grams. So a basketball-sized Earth would have only 9.2 grams of water in all of its oceans. Doesn't sound like that's going to do much cushioning. This doesn't even consider that the water is liquid and would therefore be easily pushed out of the way by the solid Moon, allowing it to impact the crust of the Earth which lies below it.

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now every thing u say is true 99% and i know that but im talking about that 1% of maybe....

Maybe the Moon is actually made of cheese. Maybe the Earth is actually flat. Maybe Bigfoot lives in my kitchen cabinet.

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the speed the moon coming does matter yes its will happen for just 1 moment thats all im saying them have to hold out for but hoiw long the moon gets here does matter sins it will give the moon time sitting in earth atmosphere

As I've pointed out, it can't hold out for even a moment. The crust is too weak to support the Moon's weight.

Although there is no definite boundary between the Earth's atmosphere and outer space, an altitude of 100 kilometers is often cited as the standard starting point of space. 75% of the mass of the atmosphere is within 11 kilometers of the Earth's surface (the pressure and density are much lower at high altitudes). Let's go back to our scaled-down Earth. The 100-kilometer boundary is 1.9 millimeters thick, and the 11-kilometer boundary is 0.21 millimeters thick. This should be a good example to help you visualize just how thin of a skin the air is around the Earth. The scaled-down Moon, by comparison, is 6.55 centimeters in diameter (similar in size to a tennis ball). The thickness of the atmosphere is practically nothing in comparison. It's not going to do anything to stop such a large object.

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ice age was a maybe and could be added with the rest

Good. Let's go ahead and not consider that one further then.

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i know compression make thing hot its how a diesal engine works im saying water can be really cold when dense ,the deeps parts of the ocean show that .

The reason that the depths of the ocean are cold is because they are cut off from most of the warming rays of the Sun, not because they are under pressure or "dense" (density there is almost no different than it is on the surface).

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im not talking about the earth and moons gravity on its self im talking about what on them (water that does change )and maybe the surface and some of what under it will have the same affect happen ,now adding motion pushing out its adds more again

As I've pointed out, there is much too little water on Earth to do any significant cushioning, no matter how you choose to arrange it.

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40000 kmh i know that but isnt that for going around the earth so ur side way force = u free fall force so u can sit a single height from earth .im talk about the presser behind the surface leaving the planet straight out. pressers now giving extra support to the surface (with it being thicker)

No, it's not for going around the Earth. 40,000 kilometers per hour is the speed required to escape when traveling directly up and against the pull of gravity.

How is pressure going to give extra support? Adding pressure to a surface should weaken it, not strengthen it.

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Also wouldn't there atomic try explodes in the same way a gun try atomic bomb works plus compression . when the surface cracks around the impact witch is  surrounded by water .and like the same way a comet can explode b4 impact couldn't it explode but this time is not just 1 chuck of matter its much bigger and over and over ,,,, for 1 moment u have a natural internal combustion event

It would seem that your first language isn't English and I don't mean to insult you for that. However, this particular part is rather difficult for me to understand. If you can find a way to rephrase it, I would be appreciative.

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I say maybe not coz I don't really think it could happen .i say maybe coz right now it seems to be only impossible but all it need to be is a maybe to possible of happening .to tell the truth intill a hour b4 wrighting on here I have never thought this could or had happened sins no one has ever sed anything about it .but after having a little look at whAt moon truth was talking about I thought it was possible and I want to work out if it can happen sins it can make sense

Well don't worry about what MOON TRUTH has said, because his theory is imconceivable. Even if he is correct about there being perfect correlations between the features on the Earth and the Moon, it would actually be more plausible (even if it is also ridiculous) to assume that advanced alien sculpters created the features artificially. At least the existence of aliens wouldn't violate the laws of physics. I consider it most likely that his discoveries represent a coincidence. I would like to go on the suggestion of the others and check out the surface features of Mars or Mercury to see if correlations seem to pop up as well.

As far as what Distimpson has said about a kissing orbit, it simply doesn't match the observed way that the Moon orbits.

Here's another question to address: what is it that causes the Moon to come towards the Earth in the first place? Please don't say magnetic attraction as MOON TRUTH suggested, because it is completely unworkable. The Earth's magnetic field is similar in strength to a fridge magnet. If you hold two common magnets even a meter apart, you can't even feel the magnetic attraction between them. Now imagine placing them 239,000 miles apart. There is no way such weak fields over such a great distance can have any effect.

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also with the event of a mar size planet hitting us.if a eart quake can move the earth orbit axis by a couple of cms and if possable it would only take a couple 1000 horse power to move the earth .

Please give a reference for your 1,000 hp figure.

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so if it did happn with out the object being part of ow orbit wouldnt it have massive afects on where ow orbit. wouldnt we  way to close to the sun or way to far from the sun .wouldnt that have massive temp changes not the little changes that we can c.also wouldnt it be a bit like it is with the moon ,u can jump a little but jump to much woooops.so with what im saying with a oject on a diffenent orbit hitting us wouldnt it be very clear to tell.the only other this would be earth had a second moon but again wouldnt to clear to tell...and if we where to be hit on ow side wouldnt we be aball to tell coz the earth would be out of sync with the other planets.....also so this would only be miner but as the moon spin around earth would the suns gravity have affect to .not much but a little bit of destorion

The impact with Theia probably would have changed the Earth's orbit somewhat, yes. However, we have to keep in mind that the impact with Theia occured when the Earth was inhospitable and devoid of life. So even if it wasn't in the "right place" before the Theia impact, it only matters that it is in the right place afterwards.
« Last Edit: 18/11/2013 03:47:12 by Supercryptid »
 

Offline Missynmax83

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ok b4 i read all that u seem to can calculate better than me can u check some thing.now the moon is moving away at 3.8 cms a year so say sins its not moving its a bit easyer to work out from a start to a finish ....now protend to reverse time wouldnt under the laws of gravity, wouldnt the moon have would of be at the earth surface 2.55 billion years ago (give and take ) and like i sed b4 it loks like life was here 3.5 billion years ago
 

Offline Missynmax83

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remember im doing this in my head and with a calculator
 

Offline Supercryptid

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Assuming that the Moon has been moving away from the Earth at a constant rate (which is probably not true, due to the inverse-square law attraction that gravity has), then 2.55 billion years ago, the Moon would be 96,900 kilometers away from the Earth.

I would also like to introduce the concept of the Roche Limit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roche_limit

The Roche Limit is the closest possible stable orbit that one object can have with a larger object. If the smaller object approaches within this limit, gravitational forces with break the object up and ultimately destroy it (although the debris can potentially form into a pretty ring around the planet). For the Moon, this limit is somewhere between 9,000 and 19,000 kilometers away from the Earth (depending on how rigid or fluid the Moon's material is). If the Moon were to manage to enter this region, it wouldn't survive.
« Last Edit: 18/11/2013 04:31:25 by Supercryptid »
 

Offline Missynmax83

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what about the earth being pulling to the moon
 

Offline Missynmax83

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the moon is 60% the density of earth
 

Offline Missynmax83

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thats also go with what im sayin about how the surfaces mite hold out ...we know it dont matter if it is a solid liquid or gas every thing have resistions and cant just instenly join
 

Offline Supercryptid

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Perhaps I should have put the thing about the Roche Limit in a new post. You should go back and take a look at the edit to my earlier post.

If we assume that the Moon slowly spirals inwards towards the Earth in a decaying orbit, it will pass through the Roche Limit and break up. That's another reason MOON TRUTH is wrong.
 

Offline Missynmax83

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i c that and i have only had a quick think on that but i was focust first on the earth surface but what going thought my head is how far the atmosphere would be expanded outwards ,sin u have a liquid body moving around the earth dragging air with it after a bit it mite start looking the jupiter ring ,now with massive wind speeds. the presser of the air mite start to rise the atmophere 1000s of kms .this winds wood be oing 1650 kms making a vacuum afect at the poles areas to add more air ....remember this air is being cool as it passes the water
 
 

Offline Missynmax83

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and thats if the moon doent have a tide like afect on air if it does it would much easyer for the air to do this ......and maybe not 1650 kmh but it will be trying to
 

Offline Supercryptid

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How is that supposed to make this Moon impact event more likely? I've already pointed out that the oceans and atmosphere are too shallow and lightweight to stand any shadow of a chance at stopping the likes of the Moon.
 

Offline Missynmax83

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like i sed it more about the earth surface surviving more than the moons surface .i do c the moon braking but with winds of them speed the peaces braking u mite be pushed to the side but the point is the moon will come in contact with a cool force early than normal ,then sit in most of the earths water and when it hit and brakes around the impact spot witch is surounded by water ..it would explode like a firecracker in a close fist and not like cracker going off in a open hand big differents......................and justy to let u know english is my first language i live in australia born and bread but i left school in year 8 and teached mky self to read and wright coz school didnt help my much
« Last Edit: 18/11/2013 05:23:52 by Missynmax83 »
 

Offline Missynmax83

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anyway so 2.55 billion years age the moon could of been 3/4 of its way here so that would mean 3.18 billion years ago(not including acceleration of the moon or the earth acceleration to the moon) the moon was at earth surface ...well it looks like life was around b4 that and that dont match up witch the moon being maked by a impact on earth .
 

Offline Supercryptid

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If I must, I will summarize once again why the Earth's surface cannot survive this:

(1) The crust is not strong enough to hold the weight of the Moon (much less an explosion powerful enough to push it back out into orbit). It is held together more by gravity than by molecular bonding strength.
(2) The water and air of the Earth, regardless of how fast they may be moving, how cold they are or how you choose to arrange them, simply lack enough force/density/quantity to make any difference. Don't forget that if you were to shrink the Earth down to the size of a basketball, the atmosphere and oceans would represent a thin, millimeter-scale skin around it. That's nothing to a baseball-sized object like the mini-Moon.
(3) Remember that energy quantity I calculated earlier? 4.597 x 1030? It turns out that the actual explosion would probably need to be very much more energetic than that. This is because my calculation made a simplified assumption that the explosion would somehow be able to transform all of its energy into the kinetic energy of the Moon. In reality, a large percentage of the energy would not be available to do this. A lot of it would go into heating and melting the surfaces of the Earth and the Moon. Some would go into blowing part of the atmosphere off. Some would go into generating shockwaves, sound waves and fissures. If we want to push the Moon away, we need much more energy than the original calculation. This is doubly true because we not only need to push the Moon to near the escape velocity of the Earth, but we also need to be able to stop it cold (since it would be moving towards the Earth at the moment of impact and thus would have a considerable amount of kinetic energy that would need to be overcome). Even if the Moon were moving at a snail's pace of 10 meters per second when it reached Earth, that's still going to be 3.67 x 1024 joules of kinetic energy to overcome. This is comparable to the Chicxulub meteorite impact. In any realistic scenario, the Moon will be travelling much, much faster than 10 meters per second upon impact.

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anyway so 2.55 billion years age the moon could of been 3/4 of its way here so that would mean 3.18 billion years ago(not including acceleration of the moon or the earth acceleration to the moon) the moon was at earth surface ...well it looks like life was around b4 that and that dont match up witch the moon being maked by a impact on earth .

My mistake. I made a faulty assumption in my original calculation. The Moon would actually be 96,900 kilometers closer to Earth 2.55 billion years ago. That wasn't the absolute distance. The actual distance is 142,100 kilometers away from Earth. So now that I've identified that error, let me calculate the distance for 3.18 billion years ago. Turns out it is 120,840 kilometers closer than it is now (an absolute distance of 118,160 miles away). These calculations actually suggest that it would be about 6.29 billion years ago when the Moon and Earth were together. However, I would like to strongly emphasize that the speed that the Moon is moving away from the Earth has almost certainly changed over time, making all of these figures wrong.
 

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