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Author Topic: How does coevolution occur?  (Read 3483 times)

Offline Emc2

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How does coevolution occur?
« on: 02/08/2012 08:19:00 »
Hummingbirds and ornithophilous (bird-pollinated) flowers have evolved a mutualistic relationship. The flowers have nectar suited to the birds' diet, their color suits the birds' vision and their shape fits that of the birds' bills. The blooming times of the flowers have also been found to coincide with hummingbirds' breeding seasons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coevolution

the question that I have, is that according to most scientists, and most people, plants do not exhibit intelligence ( so to speak ), I believe all life has some level of "intelligence".  And how I support that hypothesis, is by asking this question.

in order for any flower to evolve any of the qualities listed above.

would not said flower have to "know" that a humming bird existed in the first place ?

and then, have to "know" what a hummingbird liked ?


just wondering about the opinions on this matter.


Mod edit - formatted the subject as a question.  Please do this to help keep the forum tidy and easy to navigate.  Thanks.
« Last Edit: 03/08/2012 10:56:06 by BenV »


 

Offline RD

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Re: coevolution
« Reply #1 on: 02/08/2012 09:04:31 »
If the plant was only pollinated by humming birds then any whose flowers deviated from the shape of the birds beak would be less likely to be pollinated: their deviant flower shape gene would be less likely to be passed on to the next generation, i.e. natural selection for plants whose flower shape matches the birds beak.

The plant doesn't "know" what shape the birds beak is, and vice versa.

... I believe all life has some level of "intelligence"
You haven't read the comments on YouTube then :),
but seriously there is no teleology in evolution : no planning, not by the species concerned or a creator.
« Last Edit: 02/08/2012 09:18:21 by RD »
 

Offline CliffordK

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Re: coevolution
« Reply #2 on: 02/08/2012 09:23:55 »
The theory of evolution is that one doesn't need "knowledge" for evolution to occur.

Consider two trees.  One that makes black flowers, and one that makes red flowers.  If the tree with red flowers gets pollinated more frequently than the one with black flowers, then it would be more likely to pass on its genes.  Thus, in the next generation one gets more trees with red flowers than with black flowers.

Likewise, if the hummingbirds select the trees with sweeter flowers over  those without sweet flowers, then those trees with the sweeter flowers would reproduce more, and pass on more of their genes.

Hummingbirds would also slowly evolve.  So, those birds that could hover better might eat more, and be more likely to pass on their genes.  Likewise, those with long skinny beaks would also eat better and pass on more genes.

All of this can happen with just random mutations (without thought), and then natural selection that slowly makes a tree or bird more competitive in its niche.
 

Offline Mazurka

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Re: coevolution
« Reply #3 on: 03/08/2012 09:13:30 »
That is an excellent and succinct explanation.
 

Offline Emc2

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Re: How does coevolution occur?
« Reply #4 on: 03/08/2012 19:32:46 »
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2676749/

A very good article on the subject.

another one   -   http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16142448

Plants should therefore be regarded as prototypical intelligent organisms, a concept that has considerable consequences for investigations of whole plant communication, computation and signal transduction. ( quote form above article )
 

Offline Emc2

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Re: How does coevolution occur?
« Reply #5 on: 06/08/2012 00:28:26 »
Yes CliffordK, that is an excellent description of how Natural Selection works. 

I am assuming you know that Natural Selection is not the only method for advancement.  Origin of species was written in 1859, and Darwin did not know about DNA, RNA, Genetic coding, etc.  DNA was not discovered until 1869, and they did not begin to realize it stored information until 1927, and even still in 2012 scientists are still finding out so many new discoveries about it.

  You see, organisms evolve by the following means.

  Natural Selection
  Migration ( Genetic Flow )
  Genetic Drift
  and my person favorite -
  Mutations..  ( No way Darwin knew about these )


  You see in your example nothing had to mutate, the genes that did good, were passed on.  I am talking about re-coding the DNA to effect changes....

  Mutations can be spontaneous or induced. they include, but are not limited to the following.

  germline mutation / somatic mutation  / somatic hypermutation / mutagenesis / small and large scale mutations /
  cladogenesis / anagenesis /

there are 6 types of mutations

 harmful / beneficial / neutral / deleterious / advantageous / nearly neutral.

 scientists are still learning so much from this process, that to draw specific conclusions until all of the evidence is found, is premature.   


 Scientists at the top of there fields still today argue about animal and plant intelligence, every day.. So far neither side can Prove the other wrong, and I have read the best proposals and papers from each side.. both are convincing. 

 Intelligence is universal, just like energy. Now by no means do I pretend to believe that intelligence equals cognitive or critical thinking, no this is higher or advanced intelligence.

Intelligence comes in different levels, just like everything else..



http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/intelligence
:-)

« Last Edit: 06/08/2012 00:52:41 by Emc2 »
 

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Re: How does coevolution occur?
« Reply #5 on: 06/08/2012 00:28:26 »

 

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