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Author Topic: faster than light communication  (Read 5963 times)

Offline JJVIGGIANO

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faster than light communication
« on: 08/06/2006 19:00:44 »
Has faster than light communication been conclusively proved? was that mozart symphony signal for real? thanks


 

Offline realmswalker

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Re: faster than light communication
« Reply #1 on: 08/06/2006 21:34:54 »
huh?
Parts of light can move faster than light, which, i think, sets the scene for FTL communication, but everyone disagrees with me...
I dont see how it could just have a system of binary flash to work... but w/e i probly just dont understand...
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: faster than light communication
« Reply #2 on: 09/06/2006 00:32:41 »
When they say nothing can exceed the speed of light they mean nothing containing information can exceed the speed of light.

Only a pure light smooth waveform containing no information can be sent faster than c and then only through a specially prepared  medium set to the same frequency as the smooth waveform.

A light wave holds its information at the front first part of the wave, after the front part you get to the middle of the wave this part is mainly pure light and is smooth in appearence with no spikes as it contains no information.

In most of the experiments the middle pure light part of the light wave which contains no information and is not restricted to the speed of light catches up to or overtakes the front part which contains the information and is restricted to the speed of light but because they start their clock when the front part of the wave leaves the starting blocks but stop the timer when any part of the wave crosses the line without distinquishing between the two it can give the appearence that the whole wave has travelled faster than light.

In  a dot dash type system in order for the dot or dash to be different to each other one part either the dot or the dash would have to contain information and will no longer be pure or smooth in its function ,meaning one part either the dash or dot will be restricted to the speed of light .so it wont work

PS does that make sense,i hope so because ive changed it about ten times:)

Michael
« Last Edit: 09/06/2006 01:18:10 by ukmicky »
 

Offline ocalhoun

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Re: faster than light communication
« Reply #3 on: 03/07/2006 19:15:21 »
Well, there is one way.
First, a particle is manipulated to produce two identical photons (with identical polarization) these particles are shot off in opposite directions. At one end the photon is tested for polarity. (here's where it gets interesting) according to quantum physics, up until the time the photon was measured, it had all possible polarizations and the test itself colapses the waveform into only one possibility. The interesting part is that which test is used at the one end effects the outcome of any test at the other end, since knowing more about the first photon means some things are impossible to know about the second, as that would violate indeterminacy, a very well proven theory. When the first photon is tested, the waveform collapses for both photons. This happens instantly, no matter what the distance between the photons. Therefore, one could work out a code using these tests that could be deciphered later at the other end.
Now dosen't this mean that you will still be limited by the speed of the photons? No. If there is a continuous stream of photons between the center location and the two ends, tests at the first end will efect the second end instantly. This does not truly violate the theory that faster-than light travel is impossible, as nothing actualy travels that distance in that time.
I know of only two theories to account for this; action at a distance, and multiple worlds.
I prefer the multiple worlds theory because it makes more sense (expecialy with my own thory of a 6 dimensional multiverse). However, the action at a distance theory is more popular because it came first and has not been disproven.

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another_someone

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Re: faster than light communication
« Reply #4 on: 03/07/2006 20:00:40 »
quote:
Originally posted by ocalhoun

Well, there is one way.
First, a particle is manipulated to produce two identical photons (with identical polarization) these particles are shot off in opposite directions. At one end the photon is tested for polarity. (here's where it gets interesting) according to quantum physics, up until the time the photon was measured, it had all possible polarizations and the test itself colapses the waveform into only one possibility. The interesting part is that which test is used at the one end effects the outcome of any test at the other end, since knowing more about the first photon means some things are impossible to know about the second, as that would violate indeterminacy, a very well proven theory. When the first photon is tested, the waveform collapses for both photons. This happens instantly, no matter what the distance between the photons. Therefore, one could work out a code using these tests that could be deciphered later at the other end.
Now dosen't this mean that you will still be limited by the speed of the photons? No. If there is a continuous stream of photons between the center location and the two ends, tests at the first end will efect the second end instantly. This does not truly violate the theory that faster-than light travel is impossible, as nothing actualy travels that distance in that time.
I know of only two theories to account for this; action at a distance, and multiple worlds.
I prefer the multiple worlds theory because it makes more sense (expecialy with my own thory of a 6 dimensional multiverse). However, the action at a distance theory is more popular because it came first and has not been disproven.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement
quote:

Observations on entangled states naively appear to conflict with the property of Einsteinian relativity that information cannot be transferred faster than the speed of light. Although two entangled systems appear to interact across large spatial separations, no useful information can be transmitted in this way, so causality cannot be violated through entanglement. This occurs for two subtle reasons: (i) quantum mechanical measurements yield probabilistic results, and (ii) the no cloning theorem forbids the statistical inspection of entangled quantum states.
Although no information can be transmitted through entanglement alone, it is possible to transmit information using a set of entangled states used in conjunction with a classical information channel. This process is known as quantum teleportation. Despite its name, quantum teleportation cannot be used to transmit information faster than light, because a classical information channel is involved.



So, the bottom line is that quantum entanglement does not allow useful information to be transmitted faster than the speed of light, although internal components of the system behave as if they are communicating between themselves faster than the speed of light.



George
 

Offline ocalhoun

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Re: faster than light communication
« Reply #5 on: 03/07/2006 19:15:21 »
Well, there is one way.
First, a particle is manipulated to produce two identical photons (with identical polarization) these particles are shot off in opposite directions. At one end the photon is tested for polarity. (here's where it gets interesting) according to quantum physics, up until the time the photon was measured, it had all possible polarizations and the test itself colapses the waveform into only one possibility. The interesting part is that which test is used at the one end effects the outcome of any test at the other end, since knowing more about the first photon means some things are impossible to know about the second, as that would violate indeterminacy, a very well proven theory. When the first photon is tested, the waveform collapses for both photons. This happens instantly, no matter what the distance between the photons. Therefore, one could work out a code using these tests that could be deciphered later at the other end.
Now dosen't this mean that you will still be limited by the speed of the photons? No. If there is a continuous stream of photons between the center location and the two ends, tests at the first end will efect the second end instantly. This does not truly violate the theory that faster-than light travel is impossible, as nothing actualy travels that distance in that time.
I know of only two theories to account for this; action at a distance, and multiple worlds.
I prefer the multiple worlds theory because it makes more sense (expecialy with my own thory of a 6 dimensional multiverse). However, the action at a distance theory is more popular because it came first and has not been disproven.

newbielink:http://www.frih.onet.frih.net/sigstore/sigs.html [nonactive]
 

another_someone

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Re: faster than light communication
« Reply #6 on: 03/07/2006 20:00:40 »
quote:
Originally posted by ocalhoun

Well, there is one way.
First, a particle is manipulated to produce two identical photons (with identical polarization) these particles are shot off in opposite directions. At one end the photon is tested for polarity. (here's where it gets interesting) according to quantum physics, up until the time the photon was measured, it had all possible polarizations and the test itself colapses the waveform into only one possibility. The interesting part is that which test is used at the one end effects the outcome of any test at the other end, since knowing more about the first photon means some things are impossible to know about the second, as that would violate indeterminacy, a very well proven theory. When the first photon is tested, the waveform collapses for both photons. This happens instantly, no matter what the distance between the photons. Therefore, one could work out a code using these tests that could be deciphered later at the other end.
Now dosen't this mean that you will still be limited by the speed of the photons? No. If there is a continuous stream of photons between the center location and the two ends, tests at the first end will efect the second end instantly. This does not truly violate the theory that faster-than light travel is impossible, as nothing actualy travels that distance in that time.
I know of only two theories to account for this; action at a distance, and multiple worlds.
I prefer the multiple worlds theory because it makes more sense (expecialy with my own thory of a 6 dimensional multiverse). However, the action at a distance theory is more popular because it came first and has not been disproven.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement
quote:

Observations on entangled states naively appear to conflict with the property of Einsteinian relativity that information cannot be transferred faster than the speed of light. Although two entangled systems appear to interact across large spatial separations, no useful information can be transmitted in this way, so causality cannot be violated through entanglement. This occurs for two subtle reasons: (i) quantum mechanical measurements yield probabilistic results, and (ii) the no cloning theorem forbids the statistical inspection of entangled quantum states.
Although no information can be transmitted through entanglement alone, it is possible to transmit information using a set of entangled states used in conjunction with a classical information channel. This process is known as quantum teleportation. Despite its name, quantum teleportation cannot be used to transmit information faster than light, because a classical information channel is involved.



So, the bottom line is that quantum entanglement does not allow useful information to be transmitted faster than the speed of light, although internal components of the system behave as if they are communicating between themselves faster than the speed of light.



George
 

Offline xpowderx

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Re: faster than light communication
« Reply #7 on: 14/07/2006 08:51:30 »
Well if current unified theory is relevant then E=inf then time wouldnt be part of this equation. FTL would mean time would have relevance. I dont see it. because if E=inf then all transfer is simultaneous. I tend to agree to the multi dimension theory. That E exists at the same time past/present/future.

Also a dilemna for me if E=inf then Mass is infinite as well, and the transfer is nothing more than two points replacing each other. There is always a bounceback recorded or not.


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Offline Mjhavok

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Re: faster than light communication
« Reply #8 on: 04/08/2006 02:05:31 »
Can I just say that "Quantum Engtanglement" just sounds cool. The two words go nicely together.
 

Offline thebrain13

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Re: faster than light communication
« Reply #9 on: 04/08/2006 02:19:45 »
Could someone tell me what information means in physics?
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: faster than light communication
« Reply #10 on: 04/08/2006 04:18:06 »
i think its basically knowledge of something, or maybe it could be described as a message of some kind which we receive that allows us to know that something has happened or exists in a particular place.

I think:)


Michael
« Last Edit: 04/08/2006 19:37:53 by ukmicky »
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Re: faster than light communication
« Reply #11 on: 04/08/2006 10:57:56 »
Information in the universe is a really important and somewhat difficult concept.  Information theory arouse out of the development of communications systems  (initially wired and wireless telegraphy and telephony) in which signals have to be sent through a limited bandwidth channel which is subject to noise and intereference it then "escaped" into general physics relating to the need to make accurate scientific measurements  and eventually got mixed up with quantum mechanics and uncertainty.

I have made my career by understanding what can be measured and what cannot and performing apparant miracles when it turns out that what most people think cannot be measured can in fact be done with a bit if craftiness.

We are starting to see this in our everyday lives in the form of mobile phones and digital radio and television.  An old fashoned telephone signal needed about 3khz bandwidth to send it and a television around 5Mhz  now by using data compression and advanced modulation based on information theory it is possible to send hunderds of conversations or television signals using the same information space.  The cost element is lots of processing but that's so cheap now that it doesn't matter much.

It is difficult to eplain the fine detail of this process to a layman but I will try but I will write it in a seperate article that I will post later. but you might like to get a feel by googling "information theory" or something like this

Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!
« Last Edit: 04/08/2006 10:58:59 by Soul Surfer »
 

Offline Mjhavok

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Re: faster than light communication
« Reply #12 on: 05/08/2006 00:04:39 »
Very interesting can't wait for your article.
 

Offline neilep

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Re: faster than light communication
« Reply #13 on: 06/08/2006 18:27:01 »
If faster than light communication is a viable possibility does that mean I could receive a signal to myself before I have sent it ?

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Offline lightarrow

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Re: faster than light communication
« Reply #14 on: 09/08/2006 12:11:35 »
quote:
Originally posted by thebrain13

Could someone tell me what information means in physics?


information is related to entropy: the entropy of a physical system is proportional to the maximum amount of information it can contain.
« Last Edit: 09/08/2006 19:00:14 by lightarrow »
 

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Re: faster than light communication
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