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Author Topic: What existed before the big bang for the matter to expand into?  (Read 2377 times)

Offline Emc2

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I have a question.   

 what existed here before the big bang, in order for all of the matter to expand into ?

in other words, how could the big bang and expansion of happened inside of "nothing", it seems that "something" had to of existed before the big bang, if only for a place for what banged to be inside of, I mean in order to have an explosion, do you not have to have conditions that allow that explosion to happen in the first place ? 

  if anything, does not any explosion require certain elements to even take place ?

« Last Edit: 24/08/2012 09:20:09 by chris »


 

Offline Emc2

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Offline neilep

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I once postulated that somehow "time" had to be created first to enable the big bang to be created into it.......Can't find that old thread as it was quite a long ' time ' ago..........but it has a similar vein to what you are seeking here. Lets hope a passing ' circumstances-at-the-time-or-before-the-big-bang ' expert passes by and answers the question !....cos I wanna know too !.......

Of course they might say that there was no ' before ' the big bang........ as this would indicate that time was there already !!.....It's generally accepted that 'time' was created at the birth of the Universe .




.......My head hurts !!
« Last Edit: 19/08/2012 15:41:46 by neilep »
 

Offline Emc2

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what if the universe always existed and is infinite in size, and big bangs happen all the time in this infinite universe, and black holes are the universal recyclers, making sure matter is replenished for new growth.

  lol, thats what I think.

  than the big bang makes perfect sense........exploding super condensed and powerful black hole..and only our explosion is expanding, as they are likewise all over the infinite universe..
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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This enters the realm of new theories because few people have tried to answer this question.

There is one simple answer that is reasonably obvious. 

Black holes are bits of our universe that are for ever cut off from us except when the evaporate and loose all contact with us as our universe dies.

The formation of even a small black hole allows the liberation of an indefinitely large amount of energy INSIDE THE EVENT HORIZON  plenty enough to create a new universe as large as or larger than ours.

The simplest logical conclusion then is that our universe originated as a black hole in a universe similar to ours.

The only problem is that no one seems to want to work on this simple propsition because the mathematicians insist there is only a boring "singularity" in there.

We have already got a lot of knowledge to allow us to model the collapse in both quantum and relativistic terms however its a bit like Hoyle's "continuous creation" hypothesis a simple idea that could be proved wrong and no one is prepared to take the risk of being proved wrong.  This is a very bad argument because proving Hoyle wrong we learned a great deal of what we now know about the big bang.  In fact Hoyle himself did a lot of the nuclear physics that showed us how the proportions of hydrogen helium and other trace nuclei formed in the early stages of be big bang.

The time is now ripe for studying the "big crunch" of stuff collapsing inside a rotating black hole.  It could well lead us to important new physics.
« Last Edit: 21/08/2012 08:56:26 by Soul Surfer »
 

Offline Emc2

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only 2 choices.

 our universe was created.   
which is technically no different, then the religious people, and you end up at the same place, "what" created the thing that banged, and caused it to bang, etc. etc. etc.

        or

 It has always existed

No need for creation........no need for one big bang......but billions of big bangs.....

   the Big Bang theory is no different then the religious creation myth...impossible to prove, and impossible to believe...


  think about it..

  a small ball of matter, just "suddenly" appeared into "nothing: out of "nothing", and all by itself in this "nothing" that contained "nothing" it "self" exploded into "nothing", and caused "everything"..

  or.

  everything has just always existed........and is always evolving, and changing...





 
« Last Edit: 21/08/2012 09:50:35 by Emc2 »
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Our universe has clearly started hot and dense and will end up cold and extremely diffuse.  On the way to do this it is known to create small blobs of material that are for ever cut off from us that is black holes.

Inside these blobs there is a process of gravitational collapse that can release indefinite amounts of energy.  That is far more that originally formed the black hole.

 

Offline Emc2

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if our universe "started" hot and dense, then something had to of started it, and something started that, and something started that, and so on into infinity....

 save all those steps to "infinity", and make it easy.

  it is simply, "infinite", no end, and no beginning......only changing through the aeons, evolving it's complexity.




 

Offline Emc2

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Offline bizerl

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Terry Pratchett once described the current theory as being (to paraphrase) "At first there was nothing, which exploded".

"Nothing" can be thought of as either the abscence of anything, or as the addition of everything positive and everything negative. So I've always thought of there being a kind of precarious equilibrium that added up to a total of zero, but couldn't maintain itself and therefore broke up into what we call the universe.

I also think that it's a bit like saying "what's past the north pole?" or, "The earth starts at the north pole." There doesn't necessarily have to be a start and stop, just a boundary for time where thinking about events outside this boundary doesn't make sense.

I reckon you could just about postulate any theory you like though, and there's no real way to prove it wrong. It might just be turtles all the way down after all!
 

Offline Emc2

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again, it is depending how anyone interprets a word, many have different meanings to different people.

  I see "nothing" as devoid off any particles, matter, waves, energy, radiation, etc. etc.

  just as in the number zero = 0 , I see nothing as = to nothing....

   and 0 x any number still equals zero.....

yes it is amazing to think about it all. 

 but how grand it is, that beings are even able to talk about such things, it is amazing in of itself.

  and what is grander, then to discuss the great mysteries, and try and theorize about the answers.

 to be human,............a blessing, and a curse all rolled into one..lol
 

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