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Author Topic: Removal of Oxygen from Bismuth(III)Oxide  (Read 5693 times)

Offline SorryDnoodle

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Removal of Oxygen from Bismuth(III)Oxide
« on: 02/09/2012 14:23:34 »
Hello! I've got my hands on 100 Grams of Bismuth(III)Oxide, and as the topic suggests I want to get rid of the oxygen to get some metal bismuth from it to try and get some crystals.

Any suggestions?


 

Offline William McCormick

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Re: Removal of Oxygen from Bismuth(III)Oxide
« Reply #1 on: 03/09/2012 06:44:55 »
Hello! I've got my hands on 100 Grams of Bismuth(III)Oxide, and as the topic suggests I want to get rid of the oxygen to get some metal bismuth from it to try and get some crystals.

Any suggestions?

Are you making wood rose or newtons metal?

They say to purify the ore they roast it in crucibles with coal, iron and flux. Flux usually some kind of silicon to pick up the oxygen. But I would try adding it too molten lead, the lead may just steal the oxygen and surface as slag that you could remove. But I do not know that for sure.

I know many, many years ago we went to a gas station late in the evening, when we were soldering the last joints in the hot water heating system in a judges home, and ran out of solder. Nothing was open, as far as plumbing supply. So I sent a helper to get some solder from a gas station they usually stay open late. They only had a small piece, it was blackened by the exhaust from the automobiles in the station. When I went to use it, although it worked well, the heating system was able to melt the solder. Each time I would seal it, we would turn the heating system on and I could actually watch little balls of this metal, ball up. It would have been very funny if I was not in a bind.

I believe one of the guys found some good solder in my truck, and I was able to after a few times of opening the joint and removing all the metal, and then adding new good solder, get it to stay.

But we always wondered what the mystery material was that had gotten on the solder.

                      Sincerely,

                            William McCormick 
 

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Offline William McCormick

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Re: Removal of Oxygen from Bismuth(III)Oxide
« Reply #2 on: 03/09/2012 07:02:35 »
Shrunk
Hello! I've got my hands on 100 Grams of Bismuth(III)Oxide, and as the topic suggests I want to get rid of the oxygen to get some metal bismuth from it to try and get some crystals.

Any suggestions?

You might find bismuth in air compressor bearings. A greek friend of mind owns a compressor shop, and he comes across bismuth bearings in compressors. He mentioned he did not like to breath in the dust from them.

Warning what I am about to say is not mainstream science. It could have lasting mind altering affects on you.

However years ago isotopes were only elements on the periodic table above a certain number, I believe Bismuth was the last non isotope compound.



"Modern Scientists" claimed that they had found new elements, new ways of making amazing chemicals. The old stubborn Universal Scientists said, "No you idiots you have isotope contamination in your common elements". Then came World War Two.

As far as these Universal Scientists could tell there are only elements, and either mixtures or compounds of those elements. Even carbon 14 is believed by Universal Scientists to be carbon with radio active contamination. That is why "modern scientists" started to claim that the atom is much larger then it actually is. Because they had to hide that even a uranium atom is very small. And could be hidden in other elements, stuck to oxygen that is stuck to the element thought to be an isotope itself.

Bismuth may be susceptible to creating radio active isotopes, or being contaminated with them. Because it lives right next door to them. Just like lead is usually a contaminant in Bismuth. Bismuth may be a contaminant in pollonium.


                      Sincerely,

                            William McCormick
 

Offline damocles

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Re: Removal of Oxygen from Bismuth(III)Oxide
« Reply #3 on: 03/09/2012 08:48:34 »
The standard way of removing oxygen from bismuth oxide is to smelt it: roast it with coke or charcoal. The reaction is

Bi2O3 + 3 C --> 2 Bi (liquid) + 3 CO (gas, which escapes)

Problem: bismuth vapour is very toxic, as are most of its compounds and their dusts. Carbon monoxide is also very toxic.

Bismuth metal melts at around 275C which is quite a low temperature; lead, for example, melts around 325C.

If you really want to smelt bismuth, then my advice would be not to get iron or lead involved in the system. They will give you huge product separation problems. Keep it simple. But I do not think that the smelting operation is something you should be doing outside a properly equipped lab or foundry.

To make large bismuth crystals, the best procedure is to prepare them by slow cooling of the molten metal. Once again I am not recommending that you try this because there will be a significant exposure to extremely poisonous bismuth vapour.

An alternative water-chemistry procedure for making bismuth metal crystals would probably involve digesting your bismuth oxide in hydrochloric acid solution to convert the oxide to a soluble chloride, and then find a reducing agent that would very slowly reduce the chloride to the metal. A reduction where the reductant and its oxidation product were both water soluble would be ideal, though the system might be hard to find. It is a very long shot, but if ethanol --> acetic acid or formaldehyde --> carbon dioxide were to work over a period of a week or so, that would be ideal. The usual reductants, particularly zinc or nickel powder reacting with excess hydrochloric acid to produce nascent hydrogen, would not work, because the fast reaction would produce bismuth metal in a very fine sludge which would be near impossible to separate from unreacted zinc or nickel.
 

Offline imatfaal

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Re: Removal of Oxygen from Bismuth(III)Oxide
« Reply #4 on: 03/09/2012 12:37:39 »
William - Last warning

If you are going to post your own personal ideas of science do it in the New Theories Forum.  You are very close to being permanently banned.
 

Offline SorryDnoodle

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Re: Removal of Oxygen from Bismuth(III)Oxide
« Reply #5 on: 03/09/2012 19:06:17 »
The standard way of removing oxygen from bismuth oxide is to smelt it: roast it with coke or charcoal. The reaction is

Bi2O3 + 3 C --> 2 Bi (liquid) + 3 CO (gas, which escapes)

Problem: bismuth vapour is very toxic, as are most of its compounds and their dusts. Carbon monoxide is also very toxic.

Bismuth metal melts at around 275C which is quite a low temperature; lead, for example, melts around 325C.

If you really want to smelt bismuth, then my advice would be not to get iron or lead involved in the system. They will give you huge product separation problems. Keep it simple. But I do not think that the smelting operation is something you should be doing outside a properly equipped lab or foundry.

To make large bismuth crystals, the best procedure is to prepare them by slow cooling of the molten metal. Once again I am not recommending that you try this because there will be a significant exposure to extremely poisonous bismuth vapour.

An alternative water-chemistry procedure for making bismuth metal crystals would probably involve digesting your bismuth oxide in hydrochloric acid solution to convert the oxide to a soluble chloride, and then find a reducing agent that would very slowly reduce the chloride to the metal. A reduction where the reductant and its oxidation product were both water soluble would be ideal, though the system might be hard to find. It is a very long shot, but if ethanol --> acetic acid or formaldehyde --> carbon dioxide were to work over a period of a week or so, that would be ideal. The usual reductants, particularly zinc or nickel powder reacting with excess hydrochloric acid to produce nascent hydrogen, would not work, because the fast reaction would produce bismuth metal in a very fine sludge which would be near impossible to separate from unreacted zinc or nickel.

I appreciate the long response, I am going to buy a respirator before smelting it, and I will be doing it outside aswell, I don't even have my burner or my kettle yet, I was thinking of maybe putting molten bismuth through a heat resistant dripper, allowing it to drop down slowly over time, what do you think?

Anyhoo, any advice where I can find a nice respirator, not to expensive but good for these kind of things that ships to Europe?

Also, would I be smelting the Bismuth(III)Oxide and then adding charcoal?
How do I know when I should't add more, and at what pace?

Any more info would be greatly appreciated.
 

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Re: Removal of Oxygen from Bismuth(III)Oxide
« Reply #5 on: 03/09/2012 19:06:17 »

 

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