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Author Topic: Could one travel wirelessly, in future?  (Read 2522 times)

Offline stu

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Could one travel wirelessly, in future?
« on: 07/09/2012 08:47:39 »
As we can send so much information wirelessly,is in the futre the possibility to travel this way. Or at least send a proxy copy of ones self

either by Three dimensional full scale visible (starwars style)

 or slightly more complicated a atom by atom reader and builder. Like animated 3d copier/transmitter

good way to send disposable explorers
« Last Edit: 11/09/2012 21:42:54 by chris »


 

Offline CliffordK

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Re: Travel by wireless
« Reply #1 on: 07/09/2012 12:01:32 »
On earth, there are already remote control operations.

For example, military drones are controlled by pilots far away from the action.  Doctors have been experimenting with remote control surgeries. 

As one travels further from Earth, remote control becomes more difficult.  Mars is between 4 and 20 light minutes from Earth, so most of the Mars rovers are semi-autonomous. 

Remote control would become more difficult with more distant planets.  For example, Jupiter is about 43 light minutes away, and Saturn is an hour and a half away.

We already have a couple of probes heading out of our solar system.  It is likely that the first travellers that we send to other stars will be fully autonomous computer systems.  They won't necessarily be clones of individuals, but be created by individuals.
 

Offline stu

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Re: Travel by wireless
« Reply #2 on: 07/09/2012 12:22:34 »
No remote control. Autonomos image

 

Offline CliffordK

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Re: Travel by wireless
« Reply #3 on: 07/09/2012 18:55:28 »
Say you were able to essentially make a clone of an adult.  At the point where the two would separate, then the clone would essentially become an independent living entity, unless there was some way to recombine the knowledge from the clone.

With limited attention, it may not be possible for one brain to control two bodies simultaneously.
 

Offline imatfaal

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Re: Travel by wireless
« Reply #4 on: 07/09/2012 19:06:24 »
Say you were able to essentially make a clone of an adult.  At the point where the two would separate, then the clone would essentially become an independent living entity, unless there was some way to recombine the knowledge from the clone.

With limited attention, it may not be possible for one brain to control two bodies simultaneously.

Agree apart from this bit "unless there was some way to recombine the knowledge from the clone" - No it would still be a living and independent entity, with just as much right to recombine your memories at a later date as you would have to his/hers
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: Travel by wireless
« Reply #5 on: 08/09/2012 17:06:21 »
Clones already exist, although genetically created. I find the prospect of a future in where that would be accepted to be quite problematic, considering shortsightedness, egoism, and greed. You can create the surroundings for 'teleporting' something, much as we all can use the same recipes for getting a 'same' food. But it won't be the same when we include that ability to think independently.
 

Offline waytogo

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Re: Travel by wireless
« Reply #6 on: 09/09/2012 21:39:44 »
On earth, there are already remote control operations.

For example, military drones are controlled by pilots far away from the action. 


I'm pretty sure that H.A.A.R.P. station is also for that purpose.
 

Offline flr

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Re: Travel by wireless
« Reply #7 on: 10/09/2012 03:12:46 »
I have read somewhere that the biological species completely recycle their atoms within 7 years.
If that is correct then in some sense I am a clone of myself 7 years ago. The "original" (or better said "initial") structure was destroyed in a sense that the original atoms were "thrown away" in some random context.   

Yet, this type of 'cloning' does not lead to different individuality or a different consciousness of the cloned person, probably because the hierarchy of atoms/molecules and the their functions are preserved precisely.

----

An intriguing question may be: If (say nondestructive) cloning can create a second perfect replica without destroying the original structure, then do we actually have 2 bodies controlled by one single individuality and one single consciousness?


 

Offline bizerl

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Re: Travel by wireless
« Reply #8 on: 10/09/2012 23:54:58 »
I have read somewhere that the biological species completely recycle their atoms within 7 years.
If that is correct then in some sense I am a clone of myself 7 years ago. The "original" (or better said "initial") structure was destroyed in a sense that the original atoms were "thrown away" in some random context.   

Yet, this type of 'cloning' does not lead to different individuality or a different consciousness of the cloned person, probably because the hierarchy of atoms/molecules and the their functions are preserved precisely.

----

An intriguing question may be: If (say nondestructive) cloning can create a second perfect replica without destroying the original structure, then do we actually have 2 bodies controlled by one single individuality and one single consciousness?




Identical twins are often called nature's clones, and while they have identical genetic information, they also have different minds, experiences and personalities.

Getting into sci-fi type speculation, you could argue that if a perfect copy of the collection of atoms that make up a person could be made, they would be identical at that point, and you could argue that since all the fiddly neuron connections, or whatever they are, in the brain were the same, than the memories would be the same. I think that from then, the differences would start and if the two identical copies met up years later, they would be very different people.

Hard to know because we are so far off anything like that.

Maybe in an Avatar like way, it may be possible, however that's really the same as a fancy remote controlled robot.

Also for inter-stellar space exploration, you have to consider the time lag for instructions between where you are and where the remote (body? entity?) is.
 

Offline Atomic-S

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Re: Travel by wireless
« Reply #9 on: 11/09/2012 05:24:00 »
Reproducing oneself elsewhere by cloning does not seem to fill the initial objective: travelling "wirelessly" (which we do all the time, incidentally, except cable car riders) a term which I take to mean what is more commonly called "teleportation".

Teleportation, in the sense of stepping into a box in one city and almost instantaneously appearing in a box in another, runs into some basic scientific issues. The biggest one is the conservation of momentum. The center of mass of the passenger and his enviroment must be conserved. If he suddenly is relocated somewhere else, then his environment's center must suddenly be relocated through an equivalent displacement. That is equivalent to a strong force acting upon it for a short time, otherwise known as recoil. It is the same physics as is associated with the firing of an artillery piece. A fact that suggests that the processes  of teleportation and artillery firing are substantially equivalent. However, this consideration may not be the last word. We can stilll perform teleportation, in principle, if some way can be found to counterbalance the passenger's momentum, by teleporting an equal mass back from the destination at the same time. For example, the passenger could be immesed in a tank having a liquid whose density matched that of himself. The receiving end would have a like tank and liquid. On being teleported, the passenger would replace his like volume of liquid at the  destination, while the said liquid would be teleported back to the point of departure, replacing him.  So in this sense, the problems posed conservation of momentum are not fundamentally insuperable. Another theoretical objection might be that this process is incompatible with special relativity. The process must be valid in other reference frames also. Is it? The issue here mainly has to do with how the time between departure and arrival translate into other reference frames. So far we have not addressed the issue of speed of travel. Here we must address it. To be consistent with everything we know about such things, the speed of travel will have to be assumed subluminary, or at best luminary. The problem we will run into will be if a reference frame can be found in which the arrival precedes the departure. But that will not occur unless the movement is at superluminary speed. So, special relativity seems to be satisfied also. One remaining objection has to do with the state of the traveler between the time of departure and the time of arrival. It is unclear what this state would be, except to say that it apparenty, by definition, is not simply like being aboard a very fast rocket ship. The passenger, to travel "by wire", must be assumed de-materialized in some sense. The whole problem seems, then, to reduce to asking whether and by what means such a state is possible. Disassembling the human body is indeed possible by various means. It might be chemically dissolved and then piped to the distant location, then reassembled evaporating the solvent. (Don't ask me how this would actually be done -- I am just talking theory here). It might be reduced to gamma rays by annihilating it with antimatter, and then reconstructed by pair production. It might be dissembled atom by atom with a scanning electron beam, then propelled electromagnetically through a vacuum pipe, then reassembled by a similar process. I think it it is clear that there are at least conceptually ways to do this, but things get rather messy when you start to get into the engineering details, such as what kind of heat will be generated and how to handle it; and how much energy must be invested and then dissipated.  Both of these issues are closely related to another: the idea that the passenger must arrive at the destination before the compensentory back-teleportation of the balancing mass is initiated. If they could both be initiated at the same time and proceed in tandem, certain simplifications may be possible in theory. Unfortunately, there still remains one knotty problem: a process (that is, involving molecules, atoms, or subatomic particles) initiated at one end cannot directly assist a process simultaneously initiated at the other because of the time delay, and  that will remain true until the two masses meet at midpoint. It seems almost inevitable that a process that will parallel (in the course of teleporting the balancing fluid back to the point of departure at the molecular, atomic, or subatomic level) the transmission of the passenger, must begin with him at the point of departure, and travel with him to the destination. But that runs into this contradiction: the balancing liquid will not be available until he does reach the destination, and therefore cannot support the process earlier. In other words, this almost requires that the balancing fluid execute actions backwards in time, so that the balancing liquid arrives where the passenger departs, before it departs from his destination. So, although on the face of things it seemed that special relativity was not violated, it appears that special relativity very likely will be violated as long as one envisions the de-materialization being accomplished some subatomic dance between the passenger and the liquid that will balance his travel, not only in terms of gross mass but also in terms of every particle in his body.   For this reason, and also numerous engineering challenges that appear to have no solution on the horizon, I  don't believe that we will be seeing this sort of thing any time soon.
 

Offline stu

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Re: Travel by wireless
« Reply #10 on: 11/09/2012 06:01:16 »
Ha ha. Thaks for the replys guys. Thought that would get some people thinking. It kind of can be done at the moment with inanimate objects. Computor generated shapes are created via 3d scanners and transmitted anywhere globally to a laser resin mould making device.

Used in car and other industries ,I am sure ther will be a few monkeys and dogs that will be nervous in the future

thanks for the input



 

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Re: Travel by wireless
« Reply #10 on: 11/09/2012 06:01:16 »

 

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