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Author Topic: Is science becoming a religion?  (Read 20486 times)

Offline Razak

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Is science becoming a religion?
« on: 21/06/2006 11:06:13 »
By science I mean Theoretical Physics. I only used the word Science so that people will pay attention to this topic. Theoretical Physics is mostly about the origin or end of the universe and how everything works in it and in a way religion is also about same thing.
I take religion as Theoretical Physics of the past as it tries to answer origin; end and how everything works but the answers that they gave, some cannot be verified by any experiment and some were completely wrong (we only found that out when we started to answer differently, scientifically) so the answers that werenít proven wrong became the tool that kept the faith alive and the existence of the God was & is so logical that we couldnít deny it. I think same thing is happening to Theoretical Physics because there are many theories or answers to a single question (like different religion answering same questions with different answers) and we are not able to do any kind of experiment so that we could say this one is right and these are wrong. In this case we are hanging with the right answers that science has provided to keep the faith on science alive. I hope we donít have to find another way (what ever that is) to find the right answer.


RazaK


 

another_someone

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #1 on: 21/06/2006 14:42:37 »
Some of what you say is valid, but it is incomplete.

Religion is a far wider remit than science, including issues about social order, custom, morality, etc., which are not the remit of science at all.

Clearly, science in fact derived from religious thought, and most early scientists were devoutly religious, and believed that in exploring science they were helping to explore God's creation.  It was only very much later that scientists started to find it too shackling to be constrained in their search for answers about nature by the teachings of their religious tradition.

As you say, some parts of religion do try and answer very similar questions to that which science tries to answer.  These are question that Humans have always asked, but is also a natural consequence of science having derived from religious enquiry.

You are also right that science cannot tell us any more about the origins of the universe than religion can; all that science can tell us is that the universe behaves as if it had originated in a particular way.  In that respect, science and religion are the same, except that the standards by which traditional religion has judged that the universe behaves as if it had originated in a particular way has now been superseded by newer observations, and so the models that religion created for its origins of the universe no longer stand up to modern observations of how the universe is.

There can be (at least in my mind) no doubt that in the future we shall have radically different theories about how the universe originated as we make ever more observations, and have to then develop the models to support those observations.

Does this make science a religion?  I don't think that of itself it is sufficient to classify it as a religion, simply because it does cover too narrow a scope.  If one combined science and modern political thought then one might get closer to being able to claim that the combination of the two are a substitute for religion (in that respect, I have always regarded that Communism would qualify as a religion, but Communism regards itself as combining science and politics).



George
« Last Edit: 21/06/2006 14:45:13 by another_someone »
 

Offline tony6789

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #2 on: 22/06/2006 19:51:14 »
well a religion is somthing that u belive in. If u beilive in Science 100% u r...um....a...beliver in sceince?








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Offline xetho

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #3 on: 29/06/2006 14:01:38 »
No true scientist belives in anything more than 99.9%, even the validity of facts and natural laws can be argued. Anyone who believes something 100% or more, is religious.

Science and religion don't share the same procedures:
A) religion perpetuates itself by promoting belief and functions because of ignorance.
B) science is perpetuated by need and curiosity, it functions because of understanding.

If you think Theoretical Physics is like religion, check out physchology! :D It's got a bunch of theories, with even less definite experimental proof backing it up. It's even used like religion, for helping people with their problems.

Consequently, an interesting thing I figured out is there are only two ways to destroy a religion: Eliminate the belivers, or gradually change the beliefs until the religion becomes something else... Which flavor of Christianity do you believe in?
 

another_someone

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #4 on: 29/06/2006 14:36:29 »
quote:
Originally posted by xetho
No true scientist belives in anything more than 99.9%, even the validity of facts and natural laws can be argued. Anyone who believes something 100% or more, is religious.

Science and religion don't share the same procedures:
A) religion perpetuates itself by promoting belief and functions because of ignorance.
B) science is perpetuated by need and curiosity, it functions because of understanding.




Some truth, but not completely so.

Even in religion, there has always been room for the inquisitive mind (the degree depends upon the particular nature of the religion).  The Judeo-Christian tradition has always had a healthy stream of theological inquiry.  While it is true that these may not of themselves required a scientific approach to the matters they were investigation, it did require some logical thought, and it was out of this inquiry into the nature of God, religion, and the creations of God that was born modern science.

Modern science has now separated from theology, just as homo sapiens have separated from the other apes, but they all came from the same ancestor.

In other ways, science and theology, even where they are in opposition, still retain a lot in common.  Not only is the notion of philosophical inquiry something that they share, but so too is the education system, which was itself developed for the education of religion, and now continues in the same vein for the education of science.

Clearly, when one comes to experimental science, one is in a field where there is no parallel in the theological world, because theology was concerned about the relationship between man and God, and its interest in the material world was relevant only insofar as the material world was a creation of God.  Science regards the material world on its own terms, without any external references.

So, yes, this distinction with regard to experimental support for a theory is something that separates religion from science; but for all those people who are merely 'taught' science, and don't themselves indulge in experiment, the difference is not something that is applicable to them directly.



George
 

Offline xetho

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #5 on: 29/06/2006 14:01:38 »
No true scientist belives in anything more than 99.9%, even the validity of facts and natural laws can be argued. Anyone who believes something 100% or more, is religious.

Science and religion don't share the same procedures:
A) religion perpetuates itself by promoting belief and functions because of ignorance.
B) science is perpetuated by need and curiosity, it functions because of understanding.

If you think Theoretical Physics is like religion, check out physchology! :D It's got a bunch of theories, with even less definite experimental proof backing it up. It's even used like religion, for helping people with their problems.

Consequently, an interesting thing I figured out is there are only two ways to destroy a religion: Eliminate the belivers, or gradually change the beliefs until the religion becomes something else... Which flavor of Christianity do you believe in?
 

another_someone

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #6 on: 29/06/2006 14:36:29 »
quote:
Originally posted by xetho
No true scientist belives in anything more than 99.9%, even the validity of facts and natural laws can be argued. Anyone who believes something 100% or more, is religious.

Science and religion don't share the same procedures:
A) religion perpetuates itself by promoting belief and functions because of ignorance.
B) science is perpetuated by need and curiosity, it functions because of understanding.




Some truth, but not completely so.

Even in religion, there has always been room for the inquisitive mind (the degree depends upon the particular nature of the religion).  The Judeo-Christian tradition has always had a healthy stream of theological inquiry.  While it is true that these may not of themselves required a scientific approach to the matters they were investigation, it did require some logical thought, and it was out of this inquiry into the nature of God, religion, and the creations of God that was born modern science.

Modern science has now separated from theology, just as homo sapiens have separated from the other apes, but they all came from the same ancestor.

In other ways, science and theology, even where they are in opposition, still retain a lot in common.  Not only is the notion of philosophical inquiry something that they share, but so too is the education system, which was itself developed for the education of religion, and now continues in the same vein for the education of science.

Clearly, when one comes to experimental science, one is in a field where there is no parallel in the theological world, because theology was concerned about the relationship between man and God, and its interest in the material world was relevant only insofar as the material world was a creation of God.  Science regards the material world on its own terms, without any external references.

So, yes, this distinction with regard to experimental support for a theory is something that separates religion from science; but for all those people who are merely 'taught' science, and don't themselves indulge in experiment, the difference is not something that is applicable to them directly.



George
 

Offline Mukti Ram Chapagain

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #7 on: 22/08/2006 06:09:03 »
BOTH ARE COMPLEMENTRY EACHOTHER


Religious fact are driven from past experience and developed gradually according to the need of society. So society is itself the laboratory for the religions. According to the religious fact social norm and value are created. Even the state/government could not neglected/cross the Natural laws which are motivated by religious belief. Our festivals have been celebrated for the continuation of Religion. And every Individual is bound to keep up with the society in which he/she exist.

But in modern science fact are driven by inductive and deductive method. The practical and examination of modern science is visible so we could belief the scientific fact easily. The scientism tries to find that what is the truth? The truth lies within the society but scientist have to prove these reality with logical approach and practically.

In this way Science and Religious are based on their own background. Scientist also takes a reference from Society to verify their truth and facts. Although Religious belief and Social Norms & Value are derived as a belief and these beliefs are transmitted to the new generation without any logical reason. New generations accept old norms and value but they did not have any reason regarding the matter. But we should agree that religious norms facts are continue because it fulfills the needs of society. In the Ancient time Religious norm are functioned as a Natural Law.

For example, we have so many festivals which spear the brotherhood which is the prime objective of all religious norms. Which may not be based on scientific fact?

THANKING YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION!


M. R. Chapagain
Kathmandu, Nepal
Now in South Zealand Business College, Denmark
 

Offline rosy

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #8 on: 22/08/2006 09:49:03 »
Religion, to my mind at least, implies a belief in a certain set of assertions... whether they're about how the universe began or how a god or gods want us to behave.

Science has nothing to do with this at all, science is a way of thinking and approaching problems based on the available evidence, always searching with at least half an eye for new evidence and altering or indeed completely changing theories to take account of newly emerging data.

Sure, some people will blindly believe the *results* of scientific endeavour, which might be compared to a religious way of thinking but by that point it's ceased to be science and become something else entirely.

So no, I don't think science can ever become a religion.

Of course, from the point of view of a chemist (me) it's a bit questionable whether some of the outlying bits of theoretical physics (and indeed astrophysics) are based on enough evidence to count as science in the first place... but hey..
 

Offline otis01

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #9 on: 23/08/2006 00:32:42 »
Science and religion are simply different names for the same thing: a search for answers. The search for answers about who we are, why we are here, how we got here, what is here: and if there is a here, what's over there.....  they are both smaller parts of a whole.

 

 

 

Offline thayo

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #10 on: 23/08/2006 02:22:46 »
whao.. what a comtemporary issue, on several idealogical ground it has been argued by scientists the validity of  God. Contrarily, a renowned geologist who had been vanguard of anti-God treaty publicly disclosed its latest research which even appears to his deepest ever made see the existence of a divine designer

lets keep trying the untried since the birth of science innovations have been like  toy but their impacts have rocked the world
« Last Edit: 23/08/2006 02:33:07 by thayo »
 

Offline Mjhavok

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #11 on: 23/08/2006 23:09:28 »
Science is a method.
 

another_someone

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #12 on: 24/08/2006 11:47:41 »
quote:
Originally posted by Mjhavok
Science is a method.



Certainly a valid point of view, but in that case most of what is taught as science in schools is not science at all, for what is taught is taught as fact, not as method.

Science 'facts' and scientific 'laws' are not of themselves mere methods, even if they may have been the result of such methods.



George
 

Offline rosy

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #13 on: 24/08/2006 11:52:14 »
quote:
Certainly a valid point of view, but in that case most of what is taught as science in schools is not science at all, for what is taught is taught as fact, not as method.

Yes. Exactly. I find this upsetting, when I stop to think about it.
If kids were taught more about the scientific method and a little less about arbitrary facts, they'd be in a much better position to decide what they think about the stuff they're not taught about and encounter later... rather than being dependent on common sense, which mostly isn't.

quote:
Science 'facts' and scientific 'laws' are not of themselves mere methods, even if they may have been the result of such methods.

No, not methods, and not science either but the result of scientific endeavour.

 

Offline lightarrow

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #14 on: 24/08/2006 13:29:01 »
Of course science would be only a religion, if we accepted its results blindly, without even thinking about them; in that case, it wouldn't be science anylonger. But, even the very activity we are doing in this forum, asking to ourselves and to others questions about science, discussing them, controlling or verifying them with experiments or with mathematics or else, proposing doubts on the very fundations of science, makes the difference between science and religion, I think.

It's true, however, that in science we should be careful to be as aware as possible to which are our believes, our starting points (called "assumptions" or "postulates"). Only when scientists have been able to discuss and to change them, science has made the greatest leaps ahed, I think. (Note that I said: "I think", not "I believe"!).
« Last Edit: 24/08/2006 13:30:57 by lightarrow »
 

Offline otis01

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #15 on: 23/08/2006 00:32:42 »
Science and religion are simply different names for the same thing: a search for answers. The search for answers about who we are, why we are here, how we got here, what is here: and if there is a here, what's over there.....  they are both smaller parts of a whole.

 

 

 

Offline thayo

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #16 on: 23/08/2006 02:22:46 »
whao.. what a comtemporary issue, on several idealogical ground it has been argued by scientists the validity of  God. Contrarily, a renowned geologist who had been vanguard of anti-God treaty publicly disclosed its latest research which even appears to his deepest ever made see the existence of a divine designer

lets keep trying the untried since the birth of science innovations have been like  toy but their impacts have rocked the world
« Last Edit: 23/08/2006 02:33:07 by thayo »
 

Offline otis01

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #17 on: 23/08/2006 00:32:42 »
Science and religion are simply different names for the same thing: a search for answers. The search for answers about who we are, why we are here, how we got here, what is here: and if there is a here, what's over there.....  they are both smaller parts of a whole.

 

 

 

Offline thayo

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #18 on: 23/08/2006 02:22:46 »
whao.. what a comtemporary issue, on several idealogical ground it has been argued by scientists the validity of  God. Contrarily, a renowned geologist who had been vanguard of anti-God treaty publicly disclosed its latest research which even appears to his deepest ever made see the existence of a divine designer

lets keep trying the untried since the birth of science innovations have been like  toy but their impacts have rocked the world
« Last Edit: 23/08/2006 02:33:07 by thayo »
 

Offline Mjhavok

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #19 on: 23/08/2006 23:09:28 »
Science is a method.
 

another_someone

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #20 on: 24/08/2006 11:47:41 »
quote:
Originally posted by Mjhavok
Science is a method.



Certainly a valid point of view, but in that case most of what is taught as science in schools is not science at all, for what is taught is taught as fact, not as method.

Science 'facts' and scientific 'laws' are not of themselves mere methods, even if they may have been the result of such methods.



George
 

Offline rosy

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #21 on: 24/08/2006 11:52:14 »
quote:
Certainly a valid point of view, but in that case most of what is taught as science in schools is not science at all, for what is taught is taught as fact, not as method.

Yes. Exactly. I find this upsetting, when I stop to think about it.
If kids were taught more about the scientific method and a little less about arbitrary facts, they'd be in a much better position to decide what they think about the stuff they're not taught about and encounter later... rather than being dependent on common sense, which mostly isn't.

quote:
Science 'facts' and scientific 'laws' are not of themselves mere methods, even if they may have been the result of such methods.

No, not methods, and not science either but the result of scientific endeavour.

 

Offline lightarrow

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #22 on: 24/08/2006 13:29:01 »
Of course science would be only a religion, if we accepted its results blindly, without even thinking about them; in that case, it wouldn't be science anylonger. But, even the very activity we are doing in this forum, asking to ourselves and to others questions about science, discussing them, controlling or verifying them with experiments or with mathematics or else, proposing doubts on the very fundations of science, makes the difference between science and religion, I think.

It's true, however, that in science we should be careful to be as aware as possible to which are our believes, our starting points (called "assumptions" or "postulates"). Only when scientists have been able to discuss and to change them, science has made the greatest leaps ahed, I think. (Note that I said: "I think", not "I believe"!).
« Last Edit: 24/08/2006 13:30:57 by lightarrow »
 

Offline Mjhavok

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #23 on: 24/08/2006 21:28:00 »
quote:
Originally posted by another_someone

quote:
Originally posted by Mjhavok
Science is a method.



Certainly a valid point of view, but in that case most of what is taught as science in schools is not science at all, for what is taught is taught as fact, not as method.

Science 'facts' and scientific 'laws' are not of themselves mere methods, even if they may have been the result of such methods.



George




This is true but most of these facts are taught because  people used the scientific method or they just did many experiments and observed the results to make sure it is correct without even knowing a scientific method. Religion in my understanding doesn't have evidence to support it. I consider science to be a way of understand the universe it all its forms. Facts exist that people are taught and  learnt are not the science, it's the how these where found out that is the science. In my humble opinion :-S

That sounded so serious lol. I need a beer.


Steven
_______________________________________________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
« Last Edit: 24/08/2006 21:36:07 by Mjhavok »
 

Offline Mjhavok

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Re: Is science becoming a religion?
« Reply #24 on: 23/08/2006 23:09:28 »
Science is a method.
 

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