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Author Topic: Which way faster, east or west ?  (Read 20000 times)

Offline qpan

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Re: Which way faster, east or west ?
« Reply #25 on: 07/12/2003 12:11:22 »
Hi tweener- i suppose this post from the forum is similar, although it says lowest electron orbital instead of electrons falling into nucleus, but then continues to go on about zero subatomic particle motion:
"Theoretically,

At Absolute zero all electronic motion ceases. All of the electrons in the atom will be in the lowest possible orbitals.

Zero motion of a subatomic particle violates Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, so it is not possible to achieve this state."
So i suppose it wouldn't be possible for electrons to fall into the nucleus then! But if absolute zero is defined as the point of zero energy and not minimum energy, and i'm not sure which it is defined as, then at zero energy, electrons would have an extremely high chance of having fallen into the nucleus with an almost infinetessimal (but still possible) chance of being elsewhere, from +ve infinity to -ve infinity!

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Offline Ylide

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Re: Which way faster, east or west ?
« Reply #26 on: 07/12/2003 12:24:56 »
gpan:  If I may make a correction, at 0 K, all atomic motion ceases.  The atoms are not moving (i.e. no translational, rotational, vibrational energy) and the electrons are in their lowest possible energy states...that doesn't mean the electrons themselves are not moving.  

Temperatures of one one-billionth of a Kelvin have been reached...if the motion of the electrons in their orbitals were slowed by temperature, we would have violated Heisenberg already, as the electrons would be practically immobile at that temperature.

Anyway, don't nuclear repulsive forces keep the electrons from falling into the nucleus?

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Offline qpan

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Re: Which way faster, east or west ?
« Reply #27 on: 07/12/2003 17:00:22 »
Nuclear repulsive forces only occur between baryons- such as protons and neutrons. Electrons are leptons and not under the effect of the strong force. At very low temperatures, electrons have a very small amount of enery and are therefore far more likely to be in the lowest orbital and extremely unlikely to be anywhere else, but under heisenberg's law, the electron does have a (very) small probability for being elsewhere.
What is was saying in my other post was that wouldn't electron motion incite vibrational/rotational motion in the nucleus or neibouring atoms?
I don't think electrons are slowed by temperature decrease, as that would imply electrons just orbited atoms instead of just having areas of high probability (orbitals) which they are likely to be. The less energy an atom has, the more the high probability regions of finding electons moves towards the nucleus, so either the limiting case is the high probability region moves into the nucleus or to somewhere close above the nucleus, depending on what definition of absolute zero you use.

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Offline GlacierBlue

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Re: Which way faster, east or west ?
« Reply #28 on: 10/12/2003 07:04:44 »
I hope I'm getting this right, because its 11:47pm and I'm tired. Your saying that you don't think that electrons can fall out of orbit when the temperature reaches one billionth of a degree above K because every atomic structure must have something in one of its orbits? This would explain why there is still some temperature I guess? The thing Im a little foggy about though is the fact that they say that they have reached a temperature close to -1.0e8 K. How do you measure something that cold? Temperature is a measurement of how much k.e. something has and if you can measure something, that imparts energy right? Isn't there something in Heisenberg's Uncertanty Principle about the process of observing something changes it?

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Offline nandakumar

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Re: Which way faster, east or west ?
« Reply #29 on: 28/12/2003 07:36:44 »
hi

  both the planes will reach their destination at the same time. if the wind speed is equal, or nil, efficiency of the aircraft is equal.

This is because of the rotation of the atmosphere with the earth. it has no effect on the aircraft or the vehicle on the ground. They travael at the same speed unless and until you have local problems.

What you are thinking is that if you place the aircraft above, you will your destination in the western side. I too have thought  about this but it sounds different.

i think now your doubt is cleared.

hi iam a student of geology and currently doing my post graduate degree in remotesensing
 

Offline GlacierBlue

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Re: Which way faster, east or west ?
« Reply #30 on: 02/01/2004 23:20:34 »
Your post didnt clear up much. I had a hard time understanding you. Is english you first language? I thought that it was odd that you are doing your graduate work on remote sensing. What type of college offers a degree program in ESP? If my memory is correct, remote sensing is like out of body stuff, correct?

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Re: Which way faster, east or west ?
« Reply #30 on: 02/01/2004 23:20:34 »

 

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