# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: What Is Possible With This Kind Of SF Ability?  (Read 2724 times)

#### Voxx

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##### What Is Possible With This Kind Of SF Ability?
« on: 04/03/2013 02:54:43 »
A thought that I will need to study more scientifically in depth on; what about having someone able to shift density (tank)?

Intangibility (maybe?)
Extreme Durability/Strength (weight behind him/her)
Float or maybe even walk on air
Maybe condense size or expand?
Possibly even viscosity manipulation?
Pressure manipulation.
Edit* Could he/she create a singularity in something and expand it (Seems a bit broken, but trying to figure out the full lengths of this ability)?

Limits

Only able to change density content on physical (skin) contact.
Could result in unwanted effects and once a density is changed he/she would have to restore it (it wont automatically return to normal mass).
Need to consume a lot of mass (as using such an ability would severely deplete one's energy content).
- He/she has to balance three different categories: Mental Stamina (Mathematical calculation behind the action), Focus (energy behind the action), and Personal Mass (Even if he/she is using focus to make up most the difference in an objects density/mass he/she still uses a small portion of their own mass to accomplish the feat).

Can you guys think of any hampers, limits, or other possible things that could come out of this ability?
« Last Edit: 05/03/2013 15:39:39 by JP »

#### Pincho

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##### Re: Help Me Understand What Is Possible With This Kind Of SF Ability
« Reply #1 on: 04/03/2013 13:59:36 »
A thought that I will need to study more scientifically in depth on; what about having someone able to shift density (tank)?

Can you guys think of any hampers, limits, or other possible things that could come out of this ability?

Yeah, walking on water, and parting the sea ... I think that's what you were trying to get to.  ;D

#### yor_on

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##### Re: Help Me Understand What Is Possible With This Kind Of SF Ability
« Reply #2 on: 04/03/2013 15:48:03 »
There are four defined fundamental interactions, or 'forces', acting on/in particles. Think you would have to redefine them for that :) But sure, being able to change them should result in different configurations of a universe, most not hospitable to us. But to change them only locally? Still interacting with the old values existing around them? That's a lot trickier I think. Maybe there are some way around that though, in form of some 'field' excluding interactions between the two.

#### Voxx

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##### Re: Help Me Understand What Is Possible With This Kind Of SF Ability
« Reply #3 on: 04/03/2013 18:04:33 »
Yes; I know that there are four defined fundamental interactions, or 'forces' as you have stated, I believe they are Strong Force, Electromagnetic Force, Weak Force, and Gravity (in terms of strength it goes in order of strongest to weakest, Gravity and Weak Force might be switched, I can't remember).

Although; density isn't a form of energy, but something's energy content correct?  Or am I getting something mixed up as something can be viewed as energy or matter, but absolutely cannot be both (or is that only in observation standards)?

Anyways, anything else you guys can think about with this kind of ability; I don't know about splitting the 'red sea' as you are referencing, but being able to densify (maybe the right word?) water (viscosity), could make you walk on water (scientifically anyways)?  Correct?

#### bizerl

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##### Re: Help Me Understand What Is Possible With This Kind Of SF Ability
« Reply #4 on: 04/03/2013 21:23:13 »
You could consider the properties of carbon and the way it can change properties just by changing the pattern that the atoms are bonded. (I think they're called allotropes). It gives you the possibilty of reasonably soft graphite and the incredibly hard diamond. If this "tank" had carbon scales, perhaps it could find a way to alter the structure of them from a softer graphite to diamond and back again? I'd imagine this would limit movement and perhaps only portions of the body would be altered at any one time.

#### Voxx

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##### Re: Help Me Understand What Is Possible With This Kind Of SF Ability
« Reply #5 on: 04/03/2013 22:02:04 »
Density Definition -
1) The degree of compactness of a substance.
2) A measure of the amount of information on a storage medium.

Synonyms -
Thickness, consistence, consistency, denseness.

Mass Definition -
Noun - A coherent, typically large body of matter with no definite shape.
Adjective - Relating to, done by, or affecting large numbers of people or things
Verb - Assemble or cause to assemble into a mass or as one body: "both countries began massing troops in the region."

Synonyms -
Noun - Heap, multitude, crowd, bulk, pile, lump.
Adjective - Massive, Wholesale
Verb - Collect, gather, accumulate, muster, assemble
_____________________________________________________________________

I seem to be talking about this ability in the verb (motion) sense.

He/she can change the degree of compactness and strengthen or weaken the structure of an assembly or cause the assembly to gain in strength.

The ability can translate into a whole mess of things, but basically in my thought of it.  This person can change the resistance of anything in physical contact to a constant lesser or greater degree.

Water (density is solidified) Diamond (density is solid), although each of these also have differing mass.
Anything I'm missing or you don't understand?

#### yor_on

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##### Re: What Is Possible With This Kind Of SF Ability?
« Reply #6 on: 05/03/2013 17:23:11 »
Don't worry Voxx, none here is that precise, after all, we use words to discuss whatever comes to mind :) but you might want to consider it in form of 'emergences' if so. The universe seems to work on temperatures, and with different temperatures you get different phenomena, as water becoming ice, or going the other way a quark/gluon plasma. The universe is 'meta stable' as we live in a period where particles can exist, as I think.

#### Voxx

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##### Re: What Is Possible With This Kind Of SF Ability?
« Reply #7 on: 06/03/2013 00:20:11 »
So, when changing around the quantum world there will be temperature differences.  For instance if this Picnokinesis changes the density of some slab of stone to ten times denser than it actually is, then it will be burning hot due to the rapid shift in structure?

#### yor_on

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##### Re: What Is Possible With This Kind Of SF Ability?
« Reply #8 on: 06/03/2013 11:01:17 »
Depends on how you do it I guess? Classically a density should be mass, created by particles. It depends on what mass really means. Pete said that Einstein thought of EM fields as mass if I remember rightly. And light used LightArrows way can also become mass. Either you assume more particles from some other existing place, then they will interact, but will they heat up? A agitated particle is either a particle with more momentum (kinetic energy) than being 'at rest' with the rest of the particles in the material, or somehow disturbing the materials equilibrium. But a particle isn't that simple as some corn of something. To me it more seems to consist of 'forces' bound together, but I don't really know? You have people theorizing that a particle is some form of wrapped/warped space too, and that it is interactions by a multitude of 'particles' that makes the matter we see.
==

The point here is that if you use a locally measured 'energy' (heat/agitation) in particles due to uniform motions, as planets suns etc moving, then there is no such thing as more 'energy' locally due to a higher/faster uniform motion. And if that doesn't define a energy locally, although different uniform motions exist, where is that energy situated? Turn it around and think of a way to 'materialize' matter, or change your density, without finding matter to 'heat up'.
« Last Edit: 06/03/2013 12:04:53 by yor_on »

#### yor_on

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##### Re: What Is Possible With This Kind Of SF Ability?
« Reply #9 on: 06/03/2013 11:06:27 »
What I mean is actually, 'from nothing something'. If there was a way to unravel those forces and then define them to some space they don't necessarily need to gain kinetic energy or momentum, they might just 'come into being' as matter. But now we're close to 'magic' :)
==

Thinking of it all as 'energy' the question becomes what a room is. The Big Bang is presumed to come from a singularity, becoming a inflating room, becoming a expanding universe. Constrict a particle to a volume smaller that its 'size', and what happens? A black hole? A black hole is where a 'pressure' have passed some boundary for (interactive) particles size, and where the compression ends in a singularity, all as I get it.
« Last Edit: 06/03/2013 11:12:44 by yor_on »

#### yor_on

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##### Re: What Is Possible With This Kind Of SF Ability?
« Reply #10 on: 06/03/2013 11:22:28 »
What you can say from thinking of black holes is that the universe keeps count on 'energy' if so. Assuming that its 'infinite mass' is defined at some center with a 'event horizon' depicting some boundary between what we can't know, to what we know (the universe outside). We at least find that the black hole is correctly described in form of gravitational influence outside it, meaning that no matter what happens inside that boundary, planets and suns orbiting it will treat it as it never disappeared behind that event horizon.

#### Voxx

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##### Re: What Is Possible With This Kind Of SF Ability?
« Reply #11 on: 07/03/2013 01:05:47 »
An interesting explanation; but what about the M-Theory?  That is where I am basing a large portion of this book on.  We don't know where gravity comes from, except for thinking that it bleeds to our "dimension" (when honestly we have no idea).

This energy that these "Espers" use as a medium to counter act the act of shifting quantum mechanistic in a completely unknown direction is actually quite simple, but I honestly don't know if it is plausible (in the sense that science can disprove it)...

My book has a multitude of dimensional universes, the main universe, founder universe, demon universe, phoenix universe, kelrad universe and finally where they all correlate "in-between space" (that is at least what I call it atm).

When a tear happened in the "main universe" that was purposely penetrated to reach the "keldrad universe" a simultaneous event happened that the "founders universe" collapsed, causing a torrent of universal energy to scatter through the "in-between space," thus causing a massive expel of this energy into the "main universe."  This expel of energy caused a bond to form with specific human beings that altered their initial evolutionary chain.  The energy formed a link with this race and over time would strengthen to the point of them being able to use that energy in combination with conscious and subconscious calculations to manipulate the environment around them in specific ways.  Different abilities might also cause a physical/emotional affixes to bring out or unlock that section of the brain.  (forgive my spelling/grammar or anything else in that nature, just trying to get my thoughts out.)

What do you think about the whole unstable scientific foundation of my book (be honest, but I might cry; laying my whole small evolutionary summary out to you T_T)?
« Last Edit: 07/03/2013 01:07:54 by Voxx »

#### yor_on

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##### Re: What Is Possible With This Kind Of SF Ability?
« Reply #12 on: 07/03/2013 13:27:24 »
Sweet :)

And I'll be pleased to read it once you're through. M-theory and branes is not what I know, although you might consider the way 'gravity' is thought to 'act through' the Event Horizon? Gravity could be seen to act without 'limits' there? Being a good author is about making me want to continue read the book as I think. And I like Heinlein's definition of science. Any science too advanced for a culture might in the end be considered as just 'magic', or something to that matter at least. You just need to find some way to translate what you've read into something using your words and thoughts. That will make it readable (and enjoyable), and if it is inconsistent at times, well, so is 'magic' :)
=
As for gravity and branes The beauty of branes, by Lisa Randal
D-branes D branes.

As for what makes a really good book I don't know, I know that if you love to write, and love your subject, the book most probably will be enjoyable for me. Some of the best books I've read don't fit any easy category in my mind, They were a mix of everything, or a synthesis of everything. And it doesn't matter what you write about, or how factual you try to be. The best books are like visions or dreams, whole in themselves. Today publishers want categories though, so those books are becoming rare.
« Last Edit: 07/03/2013 14:08:07 by yor_on »

#### Pmb

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##### Re: What Is Possible With This Kind Of SF Ability?
« Reply #13 on: 07/03/2013 16:14:55 »
I'm not 100% sure of what you're asking but I will say this. Suppose you're on the ocean in a boat in the Bermuda triangle. If there is a pocket of methane case released from the ocean floor it will rise up to the surface making the water less dense on the way. When it reaches the boat the less dense water will no longer be able to keep the boat afloat so it will sink. They believe that this is one explanation of the mysteious vanishings of boats in the Bermuda triangle.

So to make material less dense add a gas to it.

#### Voxx

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##### Re: What Is Possible With This Kind Of SF Ability?
« Reply #14 on: 07/03/2013 22:24:59 »
Those are great ideas that inspire deeper thought, that is what I mainly love to think about while writing.  If I can make my readers think deeper than when they first picked up my book then I have succeeded.

I'm close to reviewing my first 100 pages in the first book of my series if anyone would like to overview it and give me feedback (if you have the free time of course).

#### The Naked Scientists Forum

##### Re: What Is Possible With This Kind Of SF Ability?
« Reply #14 on: 07/03/2013 22:24:59 »