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Author Topic: How does the Higg's boson field work?  (Read 1300 times)

Offline thedoc

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How does the Higg's boson field work?
« on: 01/05/2013 15:30:02 »
Jock McMillan  asked the Naked Scientists:
   
If the Higg's field consists of bosons how would it work? If the bosons were discrete they would have to act on the particle moving through space as a field (each boson having a field surrounding it). If so how would they make a field that is uniform regardless of the distance from the center of the boson and this field would also have to be an exact cube with a boundary that ends where the next boson's field begins. If the 'field' got stronger closer to the center of the boson then the particle moving through the field would be varying in mass as it passed from one boson to the next.

I am an ecologist working in a game reserve in South Africa.

What do you think?
« Last Edit: 01/05/2013 15:30:02 by _system »


 

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does the Higg's boson field work?
« Reply #1 on: 01/05/2013 18:30:08 »
If we ignore observer dependencies one could assume that those bosons represent some sort of concentrations of a field, acting and being created relative mass. If we don't ignore observer dependencies, also assuming this universe to be some sort of a container of 'all there is' to measure. Then I haven't a clue, actually.
 

Offline Bill S

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Re: How does the Higg's boson field work?
« Reply #2 on: 01/05/2013 21:15:42 »
Matt Strassler has some very good articles and discussion about the Higgs.  Well worth a look.

http://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-posts/the-higgs-particle/the-higgs-faq-2-0/
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does the Higg's boson field work?
« Reply #3 on: 02/05/2013 02:25:49 »
Matt is interesting, but I don't get how it creates mass in uniform motion, unless he's down on particle level mixing in accelerations somehow? I can see how it would create Inertia though. Also Bill, it is a lattice used for describing it at Cern, hopefully they know the theory behind it, But if you lift in observer dependencies, defining it such as there always will be minuscule effects, defining you locally relative a universe, then you need as many latices as you will need 'frames of references', and none of them lying. The only way you can measure anything of matter to you is just locally. That goes for what Cern is doing too btw, That we then, due to 'commonly shared' constants find locally made experiments as being equal and possible to repeat does not change the fact that each observer should have a own frame of reference relative a universe. It's easy to see if you take a look at NIST and their time dilation experiments. What limit our understanding of what scale we can refer a frame of reference to, is the precision of our measurements. But it has to be small, real small. So observer dependencies and latices?

"An oft-cited analogy describes it well: Imagine you're at a Hollywood party. The crowd is rather thick, and evenly distributed around the room, chatting. When the big star arrives, the people nearest the door gather around her. As she moves through the party, she attracts the people closest to her, and those she moves away from return to their other conversations. By gathering a fawning cluster of people around her, she's gained momentum, an indication of mass. She's harder to slow down than she would be without the crowd. Once she's stopped, it's harder to get her going again.

This clustering effect is the Higgs mechanism, postulated by British physicist Peter Higgs in the 1960s. The theory hypothesizes that a sort of lattice, referred to as the Higgs field, fills the universe. This is something like an electromagnetic field, in that it affects the particles that move through it, but it is also related to the physics of solid materials. Scientists know that when an electron passes through a positively charged crystal lattice of atoms (a solid), the electron's mass can increase as much as 40 times. The same might be true in the Higgs field: a particle moving through it creates a little bit of distortion -- like the crowd around the star at the party -- and that lends mass to the particle. "

That's not what I would define as mass macroscopically, being in a uniform motion, I would rather call it inertia. Although you can use the equivalence principle to equalize a uniform (constant) acceleration with a gravity, there's still a acceleration involved. We have what we call rest mass, how do the Higg create that?

The Higg take it one big step further than the equivalence principle, that rests on a uniform constant acceleration, in that it presumes itself to have defined restmass, 'at rest' in a uniform motion, from it. And I'm not sure it has, and neither have I seen it explain observer dependencies, to my understanding :) But I agree that the standard theory needs it.
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does the Higg's boson field work?
« Reply #4 on: 02/05/2013 03:06:33 »
The problem there is the exact same we have with light as information and force carriers. It is what informs you of all other frames of reference, and also what defines time dilations and Lorentz contractions. Intuitively I can see a field too, but it's not what I would call a EM field. Because this 'field' needs to be unified, and to do so you have to let dimensions (distances) and time go. Normally people just refer to 'time' as a illusion but to get it right we need to include all 3D distances in it too. Because they will differ too, measurably so, depending on observer. That's also why I say I'm not sure what people refer to, when they discuss fields. Because the descriptions we use do not take into consideration how a field belongs to the observer defining it.
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does the Higg's boson field work?
« Reply #5 on: 02/05/2013 03:17:39 »
That is if you want it to be unified. You can also go the other way and define a arrow from 'c', and with it a distance as equally constant definitions, microscopically. Because then we're talking scales :) And then we can introduce accelerations microscopically between 'frames of reference'. Then you, might, be able to define a 'field' creating mass, but you would still have to find a way how to define how each 'frame of reference', locally of some same constants, can communicate between them, creating the common universe we perceive normally. You can use 'c' for it naturally, but I don't think you can use four dimensions anymore.

Not in a microscopic definition, although what we find scaling up macroscopically will be just that.
 

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Re: How does the Higg's boson field work?
« Reply #5 on: 02/05/2013 03:17:39 »

 

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