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Author Topic: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?  (Read 200102 times)

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #875 on: 28/04/2014 17:22:09 »
Or, they are in no way connected?
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #876 on: 28/04/2014 22:36:14 »
You know, I'm not thinking too good today. I've somehow lost my my momentum. And I don't really know if physics is the answer. I've found that I go to physics when I can't handle the way life crush innocents. Now, what is more important, the way we handle innocents, or physics?

I don't really know. I want to understand, but I also want to live. And life is short.
« Last Edit: 28/04/2014 22:39:31 by yor_on »
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #877 on: 28/04/2014 22:46:56 »
Bravery, do you have it?
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #878 on: 28/04/2014 23:01:01 »
Let us put it another way. I know a guy, Jarmo, he does not know what fear is. People instinctively recognize him for what he is. Does that exclude him from my question? Nope, he asked me once in what circumstances a lie would be acceptable. I told him to never lie, because a lie diminish you. If you can't tell the truth, be quiet. Then again, what are you true though? your lies, or your truth?

Why do you live?
 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #879 on: 28/04/2014 23:03:46 »
Bravery, do you have it?
Bravery??? If I might draw a parallel: Bravery can be described as observer dependent in many cases.

So exactly what is bravery? 
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #880 on: 28/04/2014 23:13:18 »
Yes Ethos, it may be observer dependent :)

From the observation of those not involved, but I think it always will involve a sacrifice of some sort.
In other words, it will cost you.
 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #881 on: 28/04/2014 23:23:09 »
Yes Ethos, it may be observer dependent :)

From the observation of those not involved, but I think it always will involve a sacrifice of some sort.
In other words, it will cost you.
Truly,.......Every noble deed has a price. And if humanity is to advance, the cost can be deemed a worthy bargain.
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #882 on: 28/04/2014 23:32:02 »
You may put it this way. Truth is uncomfortable, lies carry better. It depends on what we relies on to define humanity I suspect.
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #883 on: 28/04/2014 23:35:54 »
Let us make a simple assumption. Can you own a piece of land? Sure, as long as you use it, and live.
 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #884 on: 28/04/2014 23:37:37 »
You may put it this way. Truth is uncomfortable, lies carry better. It depends on what we relies on to define humanity I suspect.
Another way to express this is: Philosophy and Science are eternally destined to compete in their love hate relationship.
 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #885 on: 28/04/2014 23:41:40 »
Can you own a piece of land?
Only to the extent that you're successful in defending it for your own personal use.
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #886 on: 28/04/2014 23:44:01 »
Hmm:)

Or they are, in my terms, predestined to meet :)

You can't avoid them, assuming a level of competence. I have no real answer to why some individuals find a pleasure in mayhem and despair. But I know that it isn't my answer, the question is, what would you prefer?
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #887 on: 28/04/2014 23:47:48 »
The point is that you do not really need to 'defend' anything. You just need the acceptance and support of the society defining you.
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #888 on: 28/04/2014 23:50:37 »
Another, just as important point, is that this is not a answer. If it was we all would belong to caste societies.
 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #889 on: 28/04/2014 23:55:11 »
The point is that you do not really need to 'defend' anything. You just need the acceptance and support of the society defining you.
Precisely why the Pilgrims left England and settled America, to define a society that accepted private ownership of land and freedom to worship as they chose. Nevertheless, this ideal still needs defending because wolves will steal what the shepherd is to lazy to defend.
« Last Edit: 29/04/2014 01:43:05 by Ethos_ »
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #890 on: 29/04/2014 00:03:24 »
I don't know Ethos?

I don't really care where I go, as long as I live in peace, and find it a sufficient place to live? I don't really know the history behind those pilgrims, but I will presume that they wanted something more that what they found at home? Whatever it was, they took private ownership with them, and applied it on their new environment, as I understand?

That's a big difference between nomads and settlers. And it's not a truth, it's an ideal.
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #891 on: 29/04/2014 00:43:43 »
Thanks Ethos, you made it bearable for tonight.
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #892 on: 06/05/2014 19:25:12 »
I remember when I first started to take a interest in physics, well, again that is. I was interested for a while when I was young, specifically in Relativity. But then life came in between, work and kids, and other stories I'm not going to discuss:)

We all wonder about life don't we? At least those of us writing or reading here, and we all find our own ways to deal with it. Some goes to drugs, other to mysticism, or both, and then there is religions. So what makes physics differ? Maybe this, we demand experiments proving the concepts, don't we? And we're not satisfied with only one, we want them to be repeatable experiments.

The whole idea of a repeatable experiment steps out from the notion of this universe being here, and now, and that my now, now, will be yours too, as you do a equivalent experiment. By that meaning that your 'identical replica' of my experiment will be as true for you as it was for me. If it isn't, then it can't be a repeatable experiment.

So repeatable experiments goes out from a axiom.
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #893 on: 06/05/2014 19:34:38 »
The problem with mysticism, and similar, is that it seldom is found to be experimentally repeatable. In the cases where it/they indeed is found to be repeatable we will search for a logical explanation. Relativity states some things that are as mystical as it ever can become. It state that no matter my motion the speed of light is the same. It will be measured as 'c' by me moving, and by others not moving with me.

It also states as a fact, that depending on who that measure, a 'same' rod can be found to have a different length. It also state that depending on whom you observe, you will find their 'time/clocks' to tick differently from yours.

Now, if that isn't mystical, I don't know what is :)

So what differs it from mysticism? Logic, there's a logic found, and repeatable experiments able to validate the logic.
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #894 on: 06/05/2014 19:41:20 »
So what do I trust in?
Repeatable experiments, logic, and that we all are communicating. Communication, is everything, it allows you sight, hearing, sensing. I think communication must make a universe out of itself, as soon it exist.
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #895 on: 06/05/2014 19:45:17 »
Why I expect it to be so is at least two folded. One is that without some logic to a communication I would not expect it to be useful. The second is what I assume must be there for any universe to experimentally, and perceivably, exist, a logic.

doesn't matter what makes it, but I think you need it.
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #896 on: 06/05/2014 19:46:39 »
Repeatable experiments are the proof of that axiom, if they wouldn't exist, we should not be here.
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #897 on: 06/05/2014 19:53:33 »
But 'c'?

'c' must have been a leap of faith for Einstein. 'c' gives us a logic, and repeatable experiments do validate it, but the whole idea of 'lights constant and uniform speed in a perfect vacuum', no matter your motion, was a leap of faith, just as big as the one bringing you closer to an idea of God. Because physics has so far no answer to why 'c' is 'c', only Maxwell's equations and our experiments validating the concept.

doesn't mean there aren't theories and hypotheses, but I don't know of any that explains it.
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #898 on: 06/05/2014 20:00:06 »
What 'c' did though, was to open up to a new universe. It's no longer our old one, no clockwork universe ticking in a box. It's a universe in where what makes a repeatable experiment are each ones of us 'local constants'. but not as shared from ones old 'global sense of a common universe', the one we can experience as we go out at night to look at the stars, agreeing on the universe we think us see and exist in.
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #899 on: 06/05/2014 20:05:03 »
Can you see what I'm pointing at?

We're here, and we communicate. But the common universe we perceive is a transformation by our brain through our senses. But we still have some truths, as repeatable experiments and logic. They share a same ground, even if it isn't the exact same as we once thought us to observe. Without that logic ground we would disappear.
 

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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« Reply #899 on: 06/05/2014 20:05:03 »

 

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