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Author Topic: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?  (Read 307174 times)

Offline cheryl j

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1450 on: 28/12/2013 16:38:20 »

(There is , once again, plenty of evidence and arguments contained in my posted excerpts ,for everybody to see,not just speculations or opinions views,regarding the undeniable falsehood  and absurdity  of the materialist mainstream "scientific world view "  .)
There's lots of argument in your excerpts, but very little evidence, and almost none of it empirical or from experiments. The vast majority is criticism of materialism for not immediately providing answers to everything, and the leap in logic that therefore "materialism is false"

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The materialist mainstream "scientific world view " has been assuming , for so long now , that reality is just material or physical, including the mind

It doesn't assume that. It just requires evidence from anyone who claims a supernatural or immaterial process is a mechanism for why something happens. It requires the same thing from anyone claiming a new, unknown material mechanism, so there is no double standard.

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the 'scientific world view " has been taking that false assumption, or rather false materialist conception of nature for granted as an 'empirical fact " so far :
The only thing that is an "empirical fact" are the individual, specific empirical facts and observations from individual, specific reproducible experiments.
Deliver your experimental evidence and that evidence will be an empirical fact as well.

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The burden of proof is yours to address then.............

No, it's not. Again, you're attributing to others a claim  that was never made, and demanding that they defend an argument that they haven't put forth.

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In other words :

Has science ever proved the materialist "fact ", or rather the materialist core belief assumption to be "true ", regarding the nature of reality ?

Is the materialist "all is matter ,including the mind " mainstream 'scientific world view " 's version of reality an empirical fact then ? Is reality just material or physical as all sciences have been assuming it to be , since the 19th century at least ?


Can you   try to answer  just that ?

No, because your request is impossible and illogical. The only way to prove that "all is matter" is to prove that nothing is, was, or ever will be, or even could be, immaterial. Again, you are asking people to prove an infinite number of propositions an infinite number of times.

Science has also not proved that ancient astronauts didn't visit the earth and provide technological assistance to ancient cultures, help build the pyramids. Do you believe this? Why or why not? Do you believe Q-ray ion bracelets relieve pain from arthritis? Do you believe in homeopathic medicine? Chakra readings? Reiki? Channeling the spirits of the dead? L Ron Hubbard's Scientology? Creationism? Torsion fields? Numerology? Pyramidology? Crystal healing? Alien abductions?

Since you don't require empirical evidence to support your own claims or theories, and since materialist scientific world view is obviously false and based on a misconception of nature, and its findings can't be trusted, there is no reason why you shouldn't accept any and all of the above things as equally valid ideas.
« Last Edit: 28/12/2013 16:40:54 by cheryl j »
 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1451 on: 28/12/2013 16:49:41 »


Science has also not proved that ancient astronauts didn't visit the earth and provide technological assistance to ancient cultures, help build the pyramids. Do you believe this? Why or why not? Do you believe Q-ray ion bracelets relieve pain from arthritis? Do you believe in homeopathic medicine? Chakra readings? Reiki? Channeling the spirits of the dead? L Ron Hubbard's Scientology? Creationism? Torsion fields? Numerology? Pyramidology? Crystal healing? Alien abductions?

Since you don't require empirical evidence to support your own claims or theories, and since materialist scientific world view is obviously false and based on a misconception of nature, and its findings can't be trusted, there is no reason why you shouldn't accept any and all of the above things as equally valid ideas.
It's called: "na´ve"..........."credulous"........Believing something too readily. Accepting a belief by faith without sufficient evidence.
Don's personality in a nutshell!
 

Offline Grimbo1

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1452 on: 28/12/2013 16:50:50 »
By Don's logic magic, astrology, religion, etc. are also science
and its up to science to disproof them.
He does not understand the scientific process at all.
 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1453 on: 28/12/2013 16:53:24 »
By Don's logic magic, astrology, religion, etc. are also science
and its up to science to disproof them.
He does not understand the scientific process at all.
Exactamoondo.....................
 

Offline cheryl j

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1454 on: 28/12/2013 16:56:21 »
Nevermind what i do happen to believe in ,that's neither my motivation nor my 'argument " in relation to trying to make you realise the undeniable falshood of the materialist mainstream 'scientific world view ",  i just do keep my own beliefs outside of science ,

When Supercryptid and Ethos have said they separate their spiritual beliefs from science, you attack them for being "paradoxical." Why is it reasonable and acceptable when you do this, but no one else?

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in total contrast with materialism as a dogmatic unfalsifiable false secular religion in science that has been imposing itself as the "scientific world view ".

How is the requirement for evidence a form of secular religion?

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But , fact is , materialism goes beyond science ,beyond its method ,beyond its realm and jurisdiction , by assuming that reality is just physical or material .

How is requiring evidence going beyond the realm and jurisdiction of science?

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Worse : that false materialist world view has been the 'scientific world view " = all sciences have been materialist ,in the above mentioned sense thus , while science should be neither materialist nor otherwise .
Science should be metaphysically neutral thus

How is simply requiring evidence, whether it is for a immaterial mechanism or an unknown material mechanism, not metaphysically neutral?


 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1455 on: 28/12/2013 17:00:49 »
By Don's logic magic, astrology, religion, etc. are also science
and its up to science to disproof them.
He does not understand the scientific process at all.

Non-sense : you have just landed , Eagle ,so, you're not in a position ,and you have no right to utter such utter non-sense,simply because you have missed a lot here that's been going on in this and other threads as well  .
You might be the one who does need to improve your own  conception of science , i guess .
I might help you achieve just the latter ....just give me a sign then , and i will be delivering .
Since you cannot all but confuse materialism with science , you're the ones who are in urgent need of improving your own conceptions of the nature of science .
I might call my friend Karl Popper in his own grave to tell you what science exactly is , and what is it not as well .
 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1456 on: 28/12/2013 17:06:31 »
By Don's logic magic, astrology, religion, etc. are also science
and its up to science to disproof them.
He does not understand the scientific process at all.

Non-sense : you have just landed , Eagle ,so, you're not in a position ,and you have no right to utter such utter non-sense,simply because you have missed a lot here that's been going on in this and other threads as well  .
You might be the one who does need to improve your own  conception of science , i guess .


Talking down to a new member simply out of an over grown ego is worthy of banishment in my humble opinion. I think an administrator should be advised.
 

Offline Grimbo1

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1457 on: 28/12/2013 17:29:10 »
Thanks Ethos but I can look after my self ok.
Don
I may not have been here long but I have read this thread.
Your right that Science should be metaphysically neutral but what you don't seem to understand
is that it is neutral. the problem is no body has ever demonstrated anything non  materialistic.
call your friend Karl Popper in his grave. If he answers get him on here, then you will have a convert.
« Last Edit: 28/12/2013 18:26:35 by Grimbo1 »
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1458 on: 28/12/2013 17:44:13 »

(There is , once again, plenty of evidence and arguments contained in my posted excerpts ,for everybody to see,not just speculations or opinions views,regarding the undeniable falsehood  and absurdity  of the materialist mainstream "scientific world view "  .)
There's lots of argument in your excerpts, but very little evidence, and almost none of it empirical or from experiments. The vast majority is criticism of materialism for not immediately providing answers to everything, and the leap in logic that therefore "materialism is false"

Wrong , lady :
Materialism is false , not because it cannot explain 'everything " (materialism is just a false conception of nature without any explanatory power whatsoever in fact .)  , but mainly because it cannot account for consciousness that's irreducible to the physical .
My tons of posted material and excerpts on the subject do say why , relatively speaking , you just don't listen to them .
(Not to mention that you should try as well not to take that promissory messianic materialism argument " out of the closet , in the sense that materialism will be 'explaining " tomorrow what it cannot "explain" today,simply because materialism has no explanatory power whatsoever , once again ,due to the fact that materialism is just a belief ,no science  .)
Not to mention the fact that the false materialist world view has been equated with "the scientific world view " ,while materialism is just a belief = unfalsifiable = unscientific ,despite its scientific claims .

Otherwise , try to deliver the extraordinary evidence for the extraordinary claims of materialism, regarding the nature of reality then .

As a belief= unfalsifiable = unscientific ,as all beliefs are by the way  , as a belief thus ,materialism goes beyond science , beyond its scientific method thus , beyond science's jurisdiction and realm, by pretending to know the nature of reality already

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The materialist mainstream "scientific world view " has been assuming , for so long now , that reality is just material or physical, including the mind

It doesn't assume that. It just requires evidence from anyone who claims a supernatural or immaterial process is a mechanism for why something happens. It requires the same thing from anyone claiming a new, unknown material mechanism, so there is no double standard.

You simply cannot deny the undeniable fact that all sciences for that matter have been dominated by the materialist meta-paradigm ,the latter that has been taken for granted as "the scientific world view " .
So, all sciences for that matter have been assuming that reality is just material or physical, that matter is the only reality , thanks to materialism .

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the 'scientific world view " has been taking that false assumption, or rather false materialist conception of nature for granted as an 'empirical fact " so far :
The only thing that is an "empirical fact" are the individual, specific empirical facts and observations from individual, specific reproducible experiments.
Deliver your experimental evidence and that evidence will be an empirical fact as well.

What extraordinary evidence has materialism been delivering so far then, for its extraordinary claims -"empirical facts " ,regarding the nature of reality ?,since materialism gets equated with "the scientific world view " .
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The burden of proof is yours to address then.............

No, it's not. Again, you're attributing to others a claim  that was never made, and demanding that they defend an argument that they haven't put forth.

Once again , the current "scientific world view ' has been just the materialist 'all is matter ,including the mind " version of reality : what makes it so 'scientific " then ?
The burden of proof is yours to address thus , as self-declared materialists .

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Quote
In other words :

Has science ever proved the materialist "fact ", or rather the materialist core belief assumption to be "true ", regarding the nature of reality ?

Is the materialist "all is matter ,including the mind " mainstream 'scientific world view " 's version of reality an empirical fact then ? Is reality just material or physical as all sciences have been assuming it to be , since the 19th century at least ?


Can you   try to answer  just that ?

No, because your request is impossible and illogical. The only way to prove that "all is matter" is to prove that nothing is, was, or ever will be, or even could be, immaterial. Again, you are asking people to prove an infinite number of propositions an infinite number of times.

Once again , the materialist "all is matter ,including the mind " version of reality = the current 'scientific world view " : what makes it so "scientific " then ? Why has materialism as just a world view, a belief , a philosophy .....been taken for granted as  the 'scientific world view " ?

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Science has also not proved that ancient astronauts didn't visit the earth and provide technological assistance to ancient cultures, help build the pyramids. Do you believe this? Why or why not? Do you believe Q-ray ion bracelets relieve pain from arthritis? Do you believe in homeopathic medicine? Chakra readings? Reiki? Channeling the spirits of the dead? L Ron Hubbard's Scientology? Creationism? Torsion fields? Numerology? Pyramidology? Crystal healing? Alien abductions?

See above .
 What has this talk of yours to do with what i have been saying ?


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Since you don't require empirical evidence to support your own claims or theories, and since materialist scientific world view is obviously false and based on a misconception of nature, and its findings can't be trusted, there is no reason why you shouldn't accept any and all of the above things as equally valid ideas.

Materialism is just a false world view , without any explanatory power whatsoever , no science , even though science has been materialist , in the above mentioned sense at least : why do you keep on confusing materialism with science then ?

Science has been extremely suuccessful only and exclusively thanks to its own effective and unparalleled scientific method , materialism has been having absolutely nothing to do with all that , once again .

Since materialism is false , mainly because it cannot account for consciousness, then, we should be looking for non-materialist falsifiable theories of consciousness : there are none today ,but that does not mean there will be none tomorrow .

The bottom line is thus :
Science must be liberated from its own dogmatic materialist belief system ,in order to be able to progress .................

Thanks, appreciate indeed , lady .
Nice weekend ,and a happy non-materialist haha new year to you and to all your beloved ones as well .
 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1459 on: 28/12/2013 17:45:23 »

Don

call your friend Karl Popper in his grave. If he answers get him on here, then you will have a convert.
Giving the slightest credibility to Don's view of the scientific method, he might just believe in Popper's resurrection?

That eventuality would convert many of us.......................
 

Offline Grimbo1

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1460 on: 28/12/2013 17:49:52 »
Besides Don I have read loads about this theory. You may have started this thread
but its hardly a new theory is it. and it most certainly is not yours. faith in the immaterial is
as old as the human race. 
 

Offline Grimbo1

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1461 on: 28/12/2013 18:21:15 »
If a belief= unfalsifiable = unscientific, how can you post it on a science forum as a new scientific theory !!
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1462 on: 28/12/2013 18:25:03 »
Thanks Ethos but I can look after my self ok.
Don
I may not have been here long but I have read this thread.
Your right that Science should be metaphysically neutral but what you don't seem to understand
is that it is neutral. the problem is on body has ever demonstrated anything non  materialistic.
call your friend Karl Popper in his grave. If he answers get him on here, then you will have a convert.

( Prior note :
Science does not require materialism,my friend,  as science does not have to be materialist ,as science has been for so long now ,simply because science ,in its ideallistic form at least , should be neither materialist nor otherwise ,and simply because materialism is false , mainly because it cannot account for consciousness that's irreducible to the physical or to the material , as physics and chemistry  alone  cannot explain  or account for  "everything " .
The current false materialist mainstream 'scientific world view " has been trying indeed to explain 'everything" , just in terms of physics and chemistry alone ,since it has been assuming so wrongly that reality is just material or physical, thanks to materialism thus .
Consciousness as the anomaly that proves materialism to be false ,and hence the mind is not in the brain, or the mind is not brain activity ,consciousness thus cannot be accounted for by the materialist version of evolution, and hence even evolution itself cannot be exclusively biological or material physical ....to mention just that ,for the time being at least .)

It's pretty undeniable that science has not been metaphysically neutral ,since the 19th century at least = science has been materialist since then , while science should neither be materialist nor otherwise,in principle at least  .

But , since science is just a human activity , just a reflection of the highest and of the lowest which are in all of us , then science cannot be metaphysically neutral .
Metaphysically neutral science is an utopia , a myth so far , for ever maybe .

As atheist Thomas Nagel said in his fascinating "Why the materialist neo-Darwinian conception of nature is almost certainly false " book (Nagel should have titled that book of his " Why the materialist ...conception of nature is certainly false " in fact ) , he said, in similar words to the same effect at least  :
Since consciousness is irreducible to the physical or to the material , then reductionism is false ,and since materialism requires reductionism ,then materialism is also false .
And then a bit further ,he goes on by saying ,  the materialist reductionist naturalist conception of nature will be most probably just replaced by yet another false conception of nature , a non-reductionist naturalist one at that ,the human will to believe is inexhaustible , he added .

So, since science is just a human activity , human beliefs are unavoidable in science .

As for Karl Popper , let's just mention his falsifiability theory regarding any theories ,ideas , insights ............that should pass the falsifiability test in order to be able to be raised to the scientific status : the materialist 'all is matter , including the mind " mainstream "scientific world view " does not only fail in that falsifiability test , but it is also ...unfalsifiable = unscientific .

According to Popper thus , the only way to distinguish science from pseudo-science is by applying the falsifiability test to any given theory which pretends to be scientific .

Popper,unlike B.Russel ,  did succeed indeed in solving Hume's logical rejection of induction dilemma ,induction  without which science is not suppoed to exist , by admitting that induction does not exist indeed ,so, he argued that human knowledge or science are not inductive , but merely a matter of try and error ,which also means that no scientific theory out there , no scientific knowledge out there can be  true (science is not about the truth indeed ) , no matter how many amounts of unsuccessfull  falsifications of those scientific theories or knowledge are accomplished , and it would take only 1 single successfull falsification of any given scientific  theories to declare them as false .

Materialism is not only unfalsifiable , but it does also get 'corroborated verified and predicted by everything " ,the latter is not a strength , but a weakness .

Thanks, appreciate indeed .

Happy new year ,and nice weekend as well .
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1463 on: 28/12/2013 18:32:11 »
If a belief= unfalsifiable = unscientific, how can you post it on a science forum as a new scientific theory !!

I haven't been posting any "scientific " theories based on belief ,simply because all beliefs are unfalsifiable = unscientific , but they are not all necessarily false , as materialism is .

All i have been trying   to do is to make you realise  that the materialist mainstream 'scientific world view " has been just the materialist false conception of nature = a belief = unfalsifiable = unscientific ,and hence the mind is not in the brain, or the mind is not brain activity .

That's why we should be looking for non-materialist falsifiable = scientific theories of consciousness ...........

I did post some excerpts of some scientific and of some philosophy of the mind books which were trying to come up with  faslifiable  non-reductionist  theories of consciousness , and even with some  falsifiable  non-reductionist quantum theories of consciousness such as that of Henry P.Stapp ....as well, so .
« Last Edit: 28/12/2013 18:34:38 by DonQuichotte »
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1464 on: 28/12/2013 18:54:30 »
Yeah, right <bs snipped>
We've provided reasoned arguments based on multiple examples of clear empirical evidence that are inconsistent with your claims. You've provided nothing but bare, unsupported assertion and vague, speculative hand-waving.

You can't help but be well aware that if you wish to have your proposal of there being something more than the physical taken seriously, the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that. Your assertion of some extraneous immaterial non-stuff, defined only by what it is not, and with unknown provenance and properties, is incoherent, unsubstantiated, and unfalsifiable faith.

I suspect you haven't even attempted to make a coherent argument for it because you know there isn't one beyond vapid speculation, and that your repeated insulting rants are because you know all the evidence is inconsistent with your claims and you realise that the 'immaterial', by definition, is unlikely ever to supply any in favour. It's a matter of an incohate faith in pursuit of the indefensible and undefinable. Good luck with that.

Blue Fairies on the Moon are every bit as real, and much more entertaining.
« Last Edit: 28/12/2013 19:13:56 by dlorde »
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1465 on: 28/12/2013 19:05:35 »
I did post some excerpts of some scientific and of some philosophy of the mind books which were trying to come up with  faslifiable  non-reductionist  theories of consciousness , and even with some  falsifiable  non-reductionist quantum theories of consciousness such as that of Henry P.Stapp ....as well, so .
You do know that quantum mechanics is entirely physical, don't you Don? If quantum mechanical effects really did explain consciousness, it would torpedo your immaterial external consciousness claims.

But if you'd read Stapp properly, you'd have seen that he's just trying to find a suitable gap in QM (in his case, the uncertainty of the stochastic collapse of the wave function) where he can shoehorn in some unexplained immaterial agency. I refer you back to previous criticisms of the problems with such attempts, on this thread.
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1466 on: 28/12/2013 19:16:30 »
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So, it is an undeniable fact that all sciences for that matter have been assuming that reality is just material or physical = all is matter , including the mind, thanks to materialism ...

No. Once again, science is a process, not a philosophy. You really need to understand the difference.
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1467 on: 28/12/2013 19:22:41 »
Yeah, right <bs snipped>
We've provided reasoned arguments based on multiple examples of clear empirical evidence that are all inconsistent with your claims. You've provided nothing but bare, unsupported assertion and vague, speculative hand-waving.

You can't help but be well aware that if you wish to have your proposal of there being something more than the physical taken seriously, the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that. Your assertion of some extraneous immaterial non-stuff, defined only by what it is not, and with unknown provenance and properties, is incoherent, unsubstantiated, and unfalsifiable faith.

I suspect you haven't even attempted to make a coherent argument for it because you know there isn't one beyond vapid speculation, and that your repeated insulting rants are because you know all the evidence is inconsistent with your claims and you realise that the 'immaterial', by definition, is unlikely ever to supply any in favour. It's a matter of an incohate faith in pursuit of the indefensible and undefinable. Good luck with that.

Then, go read Nagel's, Sheldrake's, Carter's, Chalmer's ,Searle's , Stapp's and other excerpts i have been posting on the subject ,concerning the falsehood of reductionism .
Your materialist beliefs you take for granted as science are just acts of faith grounded in a 19th century   false  ideology,no science  .
Science has been providing nothing ,how can science do just that ?, that supports the materialist extraordinary claims neither regarding the materialist nature of reality , nor regarding the "the mind is in the brain " extension of materialism ,that's just a materialist belief assumption, no empirical fact .

You refuse to address my repeated simple question ,regarding the non-existence of any extraordinary evidence for the materialist extraordinary claims regarding the nature of reality ................

You keep on believing that "the mind is in the brain, or that the mind is just brain activity ", without any sort of conclusive empirical evidence ,since science cannot so far , if ever , link conscious subjective  states or experiences to brain activity ..........

You just assume that the tv set or radio device do create their own received respectively images and sounds , or broadcasts : you keep on believing that Obama does live inside of the tv , as Hitler was living inside of the radio .......... when the tv set or radio are damaged ,and you cannot  find no Obama inside of the tv ,or Hitler inside of the radio , then they were created by the tv set or radio ...haha

I told you many times , as Nagel did , that since consciousness is irreducible to the physical or to the material , then reductionism must be false , and since materialism does require reductionism, then , materialism is also false , which means that we should be looking for non-materialist or non-reductionist theories of consciousness at least ,while providing some such as those of Chalmers , Searle , Stapp ..............

I also have been repeating the fact that since there are still no serious non-materialist falsifiable theories   of consciousness out there today  , that does not mean that materialism is not false ...

What do you want more then ?

Stop confusing science with materialism then : science does not either require materialism or needs to be materialist : science should be neither materialist nor otherwise , in principle at least ,but fact is : science has been materialist ,since the 19th century at least , while science should be in fact metaphysically neutral , in principle at least .

So, stop projecting your own materialist non-sense on me , please .

Ciao .
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1468 on: 28/12/2013 19:27:37 »
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So, it is an undeniable fact that all sciences for that matter have been assuming that reality is just material or physical = all is matter , including the mind, thanks to materialism ...

No. Once again, science is a process, not a philosophy. You really need to understand the difference.

Undeniable fact is : science has been materialist since the 19th century at least , while science should be neither materialist nor otherwise : science should be metaphysically neutral ,in principle at least = the latter is an utopia or a myth so far .
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1469 on: 28/12/2013 19:35:43 »
I did post some excerpts of some scientific and of some philosophy of the mind books which were trying to come up with  faslifiable  non-reductionist  theories of consciousness , and even with some  falsifiable  non-reductionist quantum theories of consciousness such as that of Henry P.Stapp ....as well, so .
You do know that quantum mechanics is entirely physical, don't you Don? If quantum mechanical effects really did explain consciousness, it would torpedo your immaterial external consciousness claims.

But if you'd read Stapp properly, you'd have seen that he's just trying to find a suitable gap in QM (in his case, the uncertainty of the stochastic collapse of the wave function) where he can shoehorn in some unexplained immaterial agency. I refer you back to previous criticisms of the problems with such attempts, on this thread.

What is matter ? Is it entirely physical or material ? nevermind :  matter might turn out to be not made of matter , after all , so to speak thus .
Stapp tried  to prove the undeniable fact that the mind has causal effects on matter ,an undeniabke fact you do experience every single day of your own life ,don't you ?

How can the mind that's allegedly a product of brain activity have causal effect on matter , brain and body , and hence on brain activity as well?

How can the mind have causal effects on brain activity that has allegedly created it : is that some sort of weird absurd backward form of causation ? haha : the mind causing brain activity that has allegedly caused it ?
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1470 on: 28/12/2013 20:33:41 »
David Cooper :  Help :

Please , haha , do try to address some of this inexplicable materialist magic in science ,pleeeaaasssseee  haha .

Amazing how people confuse science with materialist inexplicable magic ,no wonder , most scientists today do , as the mainstream 'scientific world view " has been ...materialist ,for so long now, no wonder  .

Centuries long materialist brainwash indoctrinations conditioning are not that easy or that quick to ...undo indeed .

It takes  a lots of  time, patience , energy , a lots of persuasive  repetitions ...and much more to try to do just that .

But my time , energy , patience ,and even my desire,appetite  and passion to do so are running out ,folks .

I am only human, all too human, you know .

I should get paid for investing so much time, energy ....on this in fact ,but , i have been rewarded for that via a lots of priceless insights , ideas , inspiration .....from unexpected sources and people anyway  .............

"The gain is worth the loss " anyway .

But , to be honest , my patience is nearing its end .

So, folks, try to make some effort to undo that materialist brainwash in yourselves at least .

Good luck .

All the best .
« Last Edit: 28/12/2013 20:40:44 by DonQuichotte »
 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1471 on: 28/12/2013 20:49:40 »

What is matter ? Is it entirely physical or material ? nevermind :  matter might turn out to be not made of matter , after all , so to speak thus .

"Matter might turn out to be not made of matter" ???

Unquestionably the most incoherent disconnected semantically distorted rational I've ever heard in my 71 years.

Matter is just the name we give to localized orbital energy flux. If matter is not made of matter, one would be just as correct to say:


Water isn't made of water
Air isn't made of air
Stupid isn't made of stupid

You're playing with words Don......., really beneath your apparent intelligence??

GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!
« Last Edit: 28/12/2013 20:54:52 by Ethos_ »
 

Offline David Cooper

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1472 on: 28/12/2013 21:15:00 »
I can't help you Don - there's too much here to read and too much repetition to make it rewarding, so I only skim through it every day to read other people's posts (not yours) so that I don't miss anything interesting that appears in them. I do think you've achieved something remarkable in tying up so much talent here. That's a win, I reckon.
 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1473 on: 28/12/2013 21:34:28 »
There is a very good reason Webster's publishes their dictionary. It's called continuity of language and without it, none of us would be able to understand each other properly. It's a similar situation with the scientific method, without the testing and verification that repeatable results obtain, scientists would all be speaking different languages. It's why, we require evidence that all participants can observe and form a common consensus that offers the progress we all desire.

Webster's.................evidence;
something that makes another something evident
a sign
a statement of a witness
an object

In short; evidence is something witnessed, a sign and or an object

If it's witnessed, it can be measured.
If it's a sign, it can also be measured.
If it's an object, it can be measured as well.

Sir Don,....................when you have verified measurement of the so-called non-material, present it to us. Maybe then we'll find something to agree upon, until then, you have presented no evidence......... period.



 

Offline cheryl j

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1474 on: 28/12/2013 22:23:31 »

Wrong , lady :
Materialism is false , not because it cannot explain 'everything " (materialism is just a false conception of nature without any explanatory power whatsoever in fact .)  , but mainly because it cannot account for consciousness that's irreducible to the physical .

Well, person with a Y chromosome, neither can your immaterial dualism  explain consciousness, but that doesn't seem to bother you.
 
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My tons of posted material and excerpts on the subject do say why , relatively speaking , you just don't listen to them .
(Not to mention that you should try as well not to take that promissory messianic materialism argument " out of the closet , in the sense that materialism will be 'explaining " tomorrow what it cannot "explain"
You are more than willing to accept any promissory, messianic claims from people like Sheldrake or Carter. Why do you apply a different standard to them? 
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Simply because materialism has no explanatory power whatsoever , once again ,due to the fact that materialism is just a belief ,no science
Chemistry and physics has explained many things, and you have admitted this in the past. I'll go back and find your statements to refresh your memory.

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Not to mention the fact that the false materialist world view has been equated with "the scientific world view " ,while materialism is just a belief = unfalsifiable = unscientific ,despite its scientific claims.

How does requiring evidence for any particular claim constitute "a world view"?

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Otherwise , try to deliver the extraordinary evidence for the extraordinary claims of materialism, regarding the nature of reality then.

Extraordinary evidence is not required. Only verifiable, reproducible results for each specific observation.
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As a belief= unfalsifiable = unscientific ,as all beliefs are by the way  , as a belief thus ,materialism goes beyond science , beyond its scientific method thus , beyond science's jurisdiction and realm, by pretending to know the nature of reality already

I've never seen a scientific experiment in any journal about "the nature of reality".
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The materialist mainstream "scientific world view " has been assuming , for so long now , that reality is just material or physical, including the mind

Wrong, person with Y chromosome.It doesn't assume that. It just requires evidence from anyone who claims a supernatural or immaterial process is a mechanism for why something happens. It requires the same thing from anyone claiming a new, unknown material mechanism, so there is no double standard.
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You simply cannot deny the undeniable fact that all sciences for that matter have been dominated by the materialist meta-paradigm ,the latter that has been taken for granted as "the scientific world view " .

If it has been "dominated" by that view, it is because of the failure of those who believe in the supernatural to deliver evidence for their claims, not because of "secular" conspiracy against it.




 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #1474 on: 28/12/2013 22:23:31 »

 

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